Flint Locks on Cannon

[Captain Jim]

A question for all: When did the flint lock come into use for firing cannon? I have only found one reference to the adoption of the practice that dates to the latter third of the 18th century. I am designing a full scale gundeck on a mobile base (read: trailer) to take sea battles to the people. I'll go with a linstock if that is more appropriate for the GAoP, but I would prefer to use a flint (a' la Master and Commander) if it is at all accurate.

Anyone?

[Captain Jim]

Here is one from the late 18th c. that is used by inserting the long pan into the touchhole and pulling the lanyard. I presume that the mechanism was fitted on some sort of rod with the spike-and-thumbscrew arrangement to control it when the powder went off.

[Captain Jim]

One from the Lady Burgess, lost 1806. All of the steel parts have rusted away, but the same general organisation is evident in this and the Charleville above with the exception that the pan seems to be designed not to fit in the touch hole, but to light off a prime set in the cannon's normal priming channel.

[blackjohn]

"In the early 1780's, Sir Charles Douglas developed a flint lock mechanism..." from An Introduction to British Artillery in North America.

[Captain Jim]

More examples:

Late 18th C, cannon mounting and lock:

Note the bolt holes that match up with the barrel holes:

The guts, just your standard fare with the sear modified for a lanyard. Note that the mainspring powers both the tumbler and the frizzen:

Wood sideplate, undoubtably a replacement:

A different lock, this one pivots on the front hole and is pinned through the back during firing to allow the lock to be moved out of the way for the thumbstall during loading. This is an exact match to the Lady Burgess lock:

[Captain Jim]

Thanks Blackjohn. Anyone else got something earlier?

[Captain Jim]

Ever since I posted the title to this thread something seemed wrong about it. I think this is it.

Sung to the Sound of Music's "Favorite Things"

Flintlocks on cannons,

and pistols on ribbons.

Bright muzzle flashes,

And blowin' up mizzens.

Mainyards a' spint'rin

While cannonballs sing,

These are a few of my favorite things.

When the rhum's gone

when my head swims

When I'm feeling sad,

I simply remember my favorite things

and then I don't feeeeeel soooo baaaad!

Speakin' o' so bad....

[HarborMaster]

I sure wish ther was a reasonable supplier for cannon locks. THe percussion cap just doesnt do it for me the way the lock does. Very nice indeed.

[Captain Jim]

Aye, flintlocks might not be period for GAoP, but caps are way out.

[HarborMaster]

Myself I use a slowmatch.,its cheaper., no-ignitor just stick-it-an-boom. But also Goex is damn near impossible to get in Washington. No-Retailers. I have to mail order it and pay a HASMAT FEE to get even a 1 pound can. Pyrodex will not fire my flintlocks., but itll do a cannon with a slowmatch. It seems there are alot of GOEX distributors on the eastern side of the Republic.,but over here out west., it seems to be all but forgotten

[Captain Jim]

Internet order 50 lb lots from:

powderinc.com

$10.86/lb/25 or 50 lb lot Delivered in Florida, considerably more for smaller lots, however this company will ship lots as small as 5 lbs.

[Fox]

Just to expand on Blackjohn's post:

"In 1778 Sir Chas Douglas urged the adoption of flintlocks for naval ordnance but the RN would not listen. He therefore bought musket locks for the guns on his own ship where he proved their superiority to other forms of ignition. Twelve years later the Admiralty were convinced and adopted them in 1790. However, the Army did not adopt them until 1820 - and even then retained their portefires 'just in case'."

From The Gun by WL Ruffel

[Captain Jim]

Good ref Foxe, it is beginning to look as if the lock is OOP for my purposes, and I will go with a slowmatch for now. However...

It has been my experience that prior to WW II, governments were at the back of the pack when it came to adopting new firearms technology, as also indicated in your reference. As another example, I submit the Henry rifle and the Union Army during the American Civil War. The Henry was readily available but was adopted only by individual companies at their own expense. Even after the war, the cavalry was equipped with single shot Spencer carbines, as witnessed by the defeat of Custer at the battle of Little Bighorn, where the First Peoples were largely armed with Henrys and Winchesters. So, while the military will likely be the source of the most accurate, complete and numerous references to changing firearms technology, it will probably lag behind, perhaps far behind, the actual general adoption of that technology.

To that end I'm still looking, but I'm trying to find a civilian reference, perhaps a purchase order or a diary ref or something. Not trying to belabor a deceased equine here, just seeking for the origin of the advancement.

With so much of the information about this period missing, vague or inadequately recorded, I think that we should seriously consider compiling a list of information that is largely unavailable, hunting it all down (with the help of as many University faculties as possible) and publishing.

[Fox]

I don't off-hand have any primary sources for this, but the secondary sources I've looked at seem to be in agreement that Sir Charles Douglas not only urged the use of flintlock on RN guns, but also played a hand in developing them. If this is the case then you won't find any earlier sources for civilian use.

Your point about the government forces being the last to adopt new technology is a reasonable one, but the issue here is that in 1778 when Douglas first suggested cannon flintlocks the government didn't want them. He then privately equipped his own ship with them and only 12 years later the the RN adopt them. Almost an identical parallel with the story of the Henry rifle. First reference 1778, government adoption 1790.