Loyalist Arms Doglock

[Monterey Jack]

Greetings all,

I've been looking at this "buccaneer" musket offered up by Loyalist Arms and am considerin purchasing said musket. I was hopin some of you would have some feedback on the piece. I planned to use it fer my traditional bucc kit. Loyalist has always been good to me, I just would like feedback on the weapon itself.

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/do...oglockmusk.html

Thank ye!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

M-J

Basically, Loyalist Arms, --Middlesex Village Trading Companie, and the Discriminating General all get their base guns from India and them make minor or sometimes major changes to them.... sometimes calling the results differnt things.

Loyalist seems to be the most active at mixing and matching and customizing to make "different" guns. LIke they might put the english pistol lock on the prussian stock and call it a buccanneer pistol or something.

But here is what is on offer....

Loyalist Dog Lock Musket $625 (.76 Cal 46 inch barrel)

Middlesex Village Trading Companie "New England Fowler" $595 (.69 Cal 51" barrel)

and

Discriminating Generals "Military Doglock Musket" $579 (.69 cal 42" barrel)

I guess it comes down to taste and price for which one you like. But if I had to buy one tomorrow.... I would probably go with the MVTC Fowler as I really like the stock and the LONG length.

There is a discussion thread at the Muzzleloading Forum about the MSVT fowler that is pretty insightful.... the forum itself is a wealth of information too....

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb...php?tid/182146/

Good luck!

GoF

[Patrick Hand]

I was looking at the Loyalist Arms dog lock...... but the money I was setting aside for it kinda sorta got spent..... Now I'm thinking of just making one from scratch...... Lock stock and barrel.....

But I checked out the link

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb...php?tid/182146/

Have to register.... but it looks like prety good site....... Well there goes another hour each night............

[Monterey Jack]

Thanks for the help, guys; those are all sweet looking muskets. GoF: I agree about the look of the Fowler; Are we still talking 1690s to 1720's on that piece?

The other thing is that Loyalist's doglock has its stock cut down in the picture, but that's not the way they offer it; they say it has to take a plug bayonet....which they are still developing.

I wonder if that's true of the one at Discriminating General?

I'm off to hit that muzzleloading site. More later

[Patrick Hand]

Dang you GoF ..... for posting the black powder group's page.....

I was going to quickly check in here, then do some sewing on my jacket..... But the activation for the blackpowder page was in my e-mail... and I just hadda go and check it out...... I only lookied at a few topics.... and now it's 7:00...... Did find a company that makes blunderbuss barrels for $100. tho.....

The only problem I see so far, is in the living History section.... they stop at 1600 and then start again at the French Indain War...... I'll lurk for awhile, then figure where to post Pyrate stuff.......

Now I have the Pub, AND the Blackpowder Group to read..... I'm never going to get any work done.......

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Pat... I noticed the same thing about the missing pyrate period.

I suggest, or even ask you to go into the "using the forum" forum at the muzzle loading site and ask if they would "add" a section for 1600-1750.

I did a while back and the forum owner kind of said... "if there is enough interest he would add one.

A couple of people chimed in, but then it kind of died out.

So if someone else were to raise the issue again, we might meet critical mass.

While you are at the forum.... check out "the builders bench". There is an online how to class for building a muzzle loader ca'ded "gun building 101" its outstanding!

GoF

[Cascabel]

Did find a company that makes blunderbuss barrels for $100. tho.....

Blunderbuss barrels for $100????!!!

Do tell, Shipmate.... Where ??

>>>> Cascabel

[Monterey Jack]

Pat... I noticed the same thing about the missing pyrate period.

I suggest, or even ask you to go into the "using the forum" forum at the muzzle loading site and ask if they would "add" a section for 1600-1750.

Same here; I'll add my voice to yours and see if we can't get something started.

[Patrick Hand]

Blunderbuss barrels for $100????!!!

http://tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/ca...ategory=barrels

I think I will "bother" the people in the Earlier period... then they will be glad to get rid of the Buccaneers and Pyrates...... Interestingly enough.... it is a time period of many changes to gun ignition systems....

GoF... there is so much to read there.... I've just looked at a few topics... will have to read more..... OH yah... did you see the discussion on grenade launchers.... your page is listed.....

[Monterey Jack]

Blunderbuss barrels for $100????!!!

http://tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/ca...ategory=barrels

I think I will "bother" the people in the Earlier period... then they will be glad to get rid of the Buccaneers and Pyrates...... Interestingly enough.... it is a time period of many changes to gun ignition systems....

GoF... there is so much to read there.... I've just looked at a few topics... will have to read more..... OH yah... did you see the discussion on grenade launchers.... your page is listed.....

That's the tricky thing; mention re enacting among historians and the often scoff; mention pirates and buccaneers among re enactors and you get the same thing. many of the rev war and 1812 groups I've talked with seriously look down on pirate and beccaneers...which I suppose is also historical taken in the right context!

Got an email back from the webmaster of the Muzzleloading site saying they've tried the period we're looking at before and hadzero -to -little response. He politely recommended I look elsewhere.

[Patrick Hand]

I still have a lot on that site to read, but I figure there are a few of us that are in the pub and there.... I figure that I'll just post in the earlier period group.... they should get use to us after awhile.

I've been to a few rendezvous before, I wanted to get a schedule at a local blackpowder gun shop, told the owner the time period that I am now doing.... and he kinda shruged... it is pre 1840... but you know he was thinking Pirates of the Carribean......... I still have to get a period gun, but then I well attend more rendezvous, with my Bucaneer gear... it is more authentic than what most in primitive campers are using, but they are cool. I figure it will only take a little getting use to..... like I said... it IS pre 1840.......

Back on topic (sort of...)

I wanted to get the Loyalist Arms Doglock... but the money kinda got spent.... so now I will have to get the parts together to make my own.... but the Black powder site has some good references.... thier debate on Brown Bess made by different companys might interest you...... It apeart that the wood used for the stock is wrong... but the guns made in India are more "handmade".....

[Monterey Jack]

I still have a lot on that site to read, but I figure there are a few of us that are in the pub and there.... I figure that I'll just post in the earlier period group.... they should get use to us after awhile.

I've been to a few rendezvous before, I wanted to get a schedule at a local blackpowder gun shop, told the owner the time period that I am now doing.... and he kinda shruged... it is pre 1840... but you know he was thinking Pirates of the Carribean......... I still have to get a period gun, but then I well attend more rendezvous, with my Bucaneer gear... it is more authentic than what most in primitive campers are using, but they are cool. I figure it will only take a little getting use to..... like I said... it IS pre 1840.......

Back on topic (sort of...)

I wanted to get the Loyalist Arms Doglock... but the money kinda got spent.... so now I will have to get the parts together to make my own.... but the Black powder site has some good references.... thier debate on Brown Bess made by different companys might interest you...... It apeart that the wood used for the stock is wrong... but the guns made in India are more "handmade".....

I've been coining the phrase "Traditional Buccaneer"; which seems to smooth over the Pirate image with a lot of the historical re enactors. I'm thinking of creating a yahoogroup for just that period. Ye think it'll fly?

As to the muskets, I considered a long version Bess, but period-wise and for the region the doglock works so much better. Middlesex Village has a French 1717 that would pass, and it has sling straps! Only 69 calibre , but as I'm not planing to take down a bear or assault a Spanish Fort I think it'll do.

[MadMike]

Let me offer some insight into The Discriminating General's "doglock" fusil.

They originally offered it as a "copy" of a piece on display in the Parks Canada collection, without showing the Roman nose style of stock of the replica in accompanying pictures.

In fact, the original piece in the Parks Canada collection had a British style stock (much like a Bess); I contacted the former owner who provided some insight into the history of the design.

Haven't found much to support the use of a fusil style "doglock" until the French and Indian War period (and these were guns made by colonists).

I'd go for the Loyalist Arms doglock. I opted for a Dublin Castle Bess and am quite happy with it.

UPDATE- The Discriminating General is still being deceptive-

"The reproduction here, designed after an original in the Parks Canada collection made by Walker, has a 42 inch barrel."

This is false. The original Walker doglock musket in the Parks Canada collection DOES NOT have a fusil style buttstock.

Yours, Mike

[Monterey Jack]

Thanks, Mike,

Looks like I'll have to be a bit more "discriminating" myself!

[MadMike]

Check out the picture of the original Walker doglock from TDG's own site (no less)-

Yours, Mike

[Tall Paul]

Back on topic (sort of...)

I wanted to get the Loyalist Arms Doglock... but the money kinda got spent.... so now I will have to get the parts together to make my own....

Loyalist arms have started to sell their locks seperately, Their new pricelist takes some finding, their prices for locks are lower than anywhere else I have seen online.

I am seroiusly considering having a go at putting a pistol together as a personal project. The only part that I havn't been able to find a supplier for at a resonable price, is the butt cap (Is that the corrrect name for the brass "Pommel" at the end of the butt?)

There is a very good supplier here in England, Very good, but VERY pricy I would prefer to use something a bit more basic for my first attempt.

Anyone have any suggestions?