cutlass SCABBARDS

[Hawkyns]

Question for all you researchers out there.. Has anyone seen an original 17th or 18th c cutlass scabbard? Were the just leather or did they have the wooden lining as so many of the other swords of the period had?

Thanks, guys!!

Hawkyns

[Capt. Morgan]

When I was on active duty and stationed in the DC area, I had some buddies who were security forces at the Naval Academy in Annapolis... one of the many cool things I got to see was a British Naval sword (hanger, cutlass?) from the Napoleonic wars... I know its not exactly the era you are looking for, but it DID have the wooden framed scabbard, covered by leather...

[Monterey Jack]

I got to examine a "figure 8" cutlass from 1760 at a local knife show and this particular scabbard was entirely of leather, which doesn't necessarily speak for all the models of the period. I would imagine the scabbard would be prone to rot over a short time and wood would be a necessity until the leather could be replaced.

[capnwilliam]

I doubt that scabbards for cutlasses were as common as we like to think: men before the mast didn't walk around the vessel armed with more than a working knife. Other stuff got in the way of work, and posed too much potential for fights and mutinies. The crew would have been issued their weapons from racks, etc. as needed and the weapons collected and stored when hostilities ceased.

Officers would have worn swords, not cutlasses.

Now, I'm NOT saying that there no such things as scabbards for cutlasses.

Capt. William

[Capt. Morgan]

CapnWilliam, you make several excellent points... and actually, the sword I referred to was indeed that... a sword. Curved and heavier than most, but still a sword. Short, heavy bladed cutlasses for hacking and slashing, would have been used by the men, not the officers. And they would have been handed out (along with boarding pikes, axes, and pistols) when the ship went to quarters... I'm speaking of naval ships at this point, but pirates acted similarly...

However, scabbard construction was FAIRLY standard (not to say there weren't exceptions)... most old swords I've seen that still have their scabbards (none older than the Revolution, unfortunately), were constructed of wood covered in leather or heavy cloth...

[hurricane]

Are we talking pirates or navy? I'm confused. Pirates typically brought their own weapons aboard and were responsible for keeping them in good order, if I recall. It seems that a scabbard would have been very useful as a way of keeping your weapon in good order.

If you've ever been near salt water then you know what happens to a sword - it rusts within days. A scabbard would protect a sword from the elements. Even though pirates wouldn't run around on ship with a sword, they would want to protect their equipment so it was in its prime for battle, ashore or afloat. Gunners grease or other protective materials of the time applied to the sword and then placed in a scabbard would have done the trick.

-- Hurricane

[Capt. Morgan]

Got it, Cap'n Hurricane! I think the discussion was simply about maritime cutlasses, the general construct of the scabbards, and not necessarily Navy or Pirate in particular...

[the Royaliste]

Several of my scabbards, from 1700's well into the 1850's are leather, no wood.But, that said, I've exceptions to that statement. But as a generalization, most 'leather' ones were liner-less. Brass was also popular for sea issue.

[Deadeye]

If you've ever been near salt water then you know what happens to a sword - it rusts within days. A scabbard would protect a sword from the elements

Goop Point, Hurricane, but on the other hand, the oils and acids secreted by the leather tanning process ALSO promotes corrosion. Most swordsmiths and armorers will tell you NOT to store your weapon in the Scab because of this.

Now that thats been said, I know that modern tanning processes are much different than those of yore, and to be honest, i am not sure how they tanned leather back then, but i would suspect that oiled cloth would be much better for storage, then placing the blade in a scabbard for trips ashore. i do also know that in the middle ages, a lot of scabs were lined with oiled sheeps wool, so possibly a sailor/pirate would do somthing of that sort.

[Monterey Jack]

Goop Point, Hurricane, but on the other hand, the oils and acids secreted by the leather tanning process ALSO promotes corrosion. Most swordsmiths and armorers will tell you NOT to store your weapon in the Scab because of this.

Now that thats been said, I know that modern tanning processes are much different than those of yore, and to be honest, i am not sure how they tanned leather back then, but i would suspect that oiled cloth would be much better for storage, then placing the blade in a scabbard for trips ashore. i do also know that in the middle ages, a lot of scabs were lined with oiled sheeps wool, so possibly a sailor/pirate would do somthing of that sort.

The only time you're going to run into problems storing your blade in a leather scabbard is if the leather is Chrome-tanned or Alum-tanned. I store mine in vegetable tanned leather all the time, even if they are dyed on the outside, with no problems at all. You can also oil the inside of the scabbard with knife oil or any natural oil and that with coat the blade evey time you sheath it.

Chemical tanning was happening in the 1700s on, but the chemicals involved were known to be deadly even then. Besides Vegetable tanning, there's also smoke tanning and brain tanning. Those leathers won't harm the blade either, unless moisture gets trapped in the scabbard over a prolonged period.

As far as the wool / oil lining, I've only heard about it from other re enactors and never seen any documentation of it. If you have any historical sources I'd be interested in reading them.

[Deadeye]

As far as the wool / oil lining, I've only heard about it from other re enactors and never seen any documentation of it. If you have any historical sources I'd be interested in reading them.

I would have to do some digging. The Master armorer i apprenticed under had a reference on it in one of his books, but since he died i have no access to it.

I always store any of my blades out of the Scab since i had one rust and pit very badly while stored in one. You can also monitor the humidity the blade is exposed to easier, since sometimes humidity gets trapped in the scab. Of course as you mentioned, all of my scabs are made with modern tanning processes, and i honestly dont think one of them is vegitable tanned. One tip i do have on this subject though: if you coat your eating knives in Olive oil, it works wonders and is non toxic!