Arrrrgh!

[Gutterpunk13]

Ive never heard a pirate say arr! ive never said arr nor have any of my comrades said it.. ive never even read "arrrgh" anywhere in novels.. so the point of this inquiry is that why do people think arr when they think of pirates? I know I dont, but i dont go around callen meself a pirate, other people call me that when i steal them blind.. and sail off into the setting sun yelling "To Hell With "arrgh"" and other random curses.. but then id of said it wouldnt i?

John

[Monterey Jack]

It started out with Disney's version of Treasure Island. The actor Robert Newton, who played Long John Silver used it in place of "aye" and it stuck. He then went on to star in Disneys TV series about LJS and kept doing it along with "harrrr", "uhrrrr" and a couple other sounds he felt were surly.

Aaarrrgh (actually just "arrrh") became what an entire generation associated with pirates.

[Gutterpunk13]

Kinda sad if you ask me..

But What do i Know anyway

[Hawkyns]

It's a bastardisation of the English west country accent. There is some basis for it, as many of the seadogs, privateers, and pirates, like Drake, came from the Devon and Cornwall. Oh, arr? is the west country equivalent of Oh yes? When I lived in England, before the internet, televison, and telephones were in every house, regional accents still existed and I knew people who spoke like that. They're not so common now, but still exist in some parts.

Newton took it, embellished it, and made it the 'Standard Pirate Language'. BS, really because I will guarantee that the pirates from Robin Hood's Bay on the East Yorkshire coast never spoke like that. Devon yes, Yorkshire, not bloody likely!

Hawkyns

[Monterey Jack]

I don't know that its sad; unfortunate from an historical standpoint maybe, but Newton's character helped create the stereotypical "pirate" that so many re enactors have adopted over the years, and that kids everywhere idolized alongside Errol Flyn, Basil Rathbone and Douglas Fairbanks Jr.

Nowadays Hollywood gets a bad rap for its theatrical representation of history, but in the case of Pirates it kept the history alive, even though seriously embellished, until the re enactors could pick it up and run ...er, sail with it.

Just figure, scruffy, dumpy Mr Newton was the 40s version of Johnny Depp.

[Gutterpunk13]

I just dislike stereotypes of any kind and

I feel no need to categorize people at all

so call me crazy

(thats another label)

[Duchess]

I just dislike stereotypes of any kind and

I feel no need to categorize people at all

so call me crazy

(thats another label)

Ahem, I'm gonna call bullshit on that one. Look at your user name and your profile, full of sterotypes and catagories.

But, don't feel persecuted. That true for anyone who says those things. No one actually does with out sterotypes and labels, just as there is no such thing as altruism.

[Gutterpunk13]

And where, my i ask? is a stereotype in my profile?

or are you just stereotyping me yourself?

If your refering to "gutterpunk" thats someone who lives in the streets

..

computer technition- someone who works on computers

Pirate- someone who robs on water i.e. river pirates- Etc etc..

to actually be a stereotype would be that if i had an eye patch a peg leg and ran around saying arr with a parrot on my sholder..

to "label" someone means just because you like somthing or do somthing someone will "label" you for it as a stereotype. like i like metal therefore i have been called a "metalhead" I in fact am not a metalhead.

I like regge music i do not smoke pot Etc. Etc.

OR someone wanting o be accepted into a certain group has to adhear to what the "group" likes not because he/she likes it but because they want to be accepted therefore conforming to the "Label"

The "Punk" sterotype is young hoodlums with moehawks and tatoos going around stealing and playing horrible music and breaking windows and killing cats..etc etc

Forgive me if this dosent make sense and is a little jumbled but im a little upset that someone would call my way of life bullshit.

http://www.myspace.com/goodwhiskeyharbour

[Pirate Petee]

I aint arguing here and I do agree with you gutterpunk, about not labeling people. That is very "High School" I remember I used to call myself a skater or punk or rockabilly. Not all at once. Anyway as I grew up, I'm just me, I am who I am. Popeye, world's greatest philosopher. Calling yourself a Gutterpunk is catgorizing yourself as a punker who lives in the streets. Someone who lives in the streets are called homeless. Anyway duchess didn't call your way of life bull, she was just saying that since you are branding yourself as a gutterpunk and you said you don't like to catagorize people. :)

Crazy. J/K Now lets go get drunk.

[Monterey Jack]

And where, my i ask? is a stereotype in my profile?

or are you just stereotyping me yourself?

Labels aren't necessarily a bad thing; they are used in all societies by all levels of society to distiguish and separate, to set apart, which by your choice of words, nickname and even your stand on certain topics you've done to yourself. You wish to be seen in a certain way; we all do.

Its not a big deal, unless you choose to make it so.

Now, back top the topic, where did the bloody "parrot on the shoulder" come from?

[Gutterpunk13]

Well i think maybe it all goes back to teasure island movie.. didnt he have a parrot on his sholder?

i saw the movie when i was small then a while later read the book then went back and watched the movie..and then i realized somthing. the move made no since whatsoever.. it was an ok movie but no one watching the move had any idea what was going on.. did anyone else notice this?

John

PS

oh and "gutterpunks" dont have to be "punk" at all and they dont have to be homeless ether they choose to live in the streets, for whatever reason. and i chose that name because the way i see it, they are the modern "pirates" of today (besides the ones in speedboats) minus the stealing on the sea. and are often veiwed as living a very romantic lifstyle, and having true freedom. just as modern people think of pirates

[Monterey Jack]

Well i think maybe it all goes back to teasure island movie.. didnt he have a parrot on his sholder?

i saw the movie when i was small then a while later read the book then went back and watched the movie..and then i realized somthing. the move made no since whatsoever..

I think he had a parrot, just not sure if he started it.

The movie made sense to me, but then I'm a big reader as well, and knew what it was about beforehand. I have seen movies where if you haven't read the book it takes you awhile to "catch up" to the story. That may have been the case when you saw it.

[Gutterpunk13]

It mightve also been because from the begining of the movie i was disopointed in the Billy Bones secuence. i dont know why but he has always been my favorite Fictional Pirate. and the actor they got to play him wasnt very strong just looked like a weak old man to me.

Didnt real pirates bring back parrots and such from the tropics..

there are even real modern pirates who steal parrots from Rainforests to sell.. I heard theres a pretty penny for one er two macaws..

[Monterey Jack]

It mightve also been because from the begining of the movie i was disopointed in the Billy Bones

there are even real modern pirates who steal parrots from Rainforests to sell.. I heard theres a pretty penny for one er two macaws..

My favourite Billy Bones has to be Oliver Reed; funny though, I can't remember who played Silver.

The Hyacinth Macaws (Big blue ones with yellow beaks) bring the most money. My home town pet shop had three of them...huge birds...stolen in one night.

Out fer the night; got a pub to crawl to;

G'night all`

[Fox]

Hawkyns, you'll be pleased to know that in the West Country the accent is very much alive. I've got friends who even other Englishmen have difficulty understanding. Genuinely!

The thing with Robert Newton's LJS portrayal is that LJS was a Bristol man so would have had that accent, and Newton was from Dorset so would have been very familiar with it. When he played the role he just hammed up his own native accent. A few years later he also played Blackbeard as a Bristol born pirate and the accent kinda stuck.

Jack, Charleton Heston played LJS in the Olly Reed version of Treasure Island.

[JoshuaRed]

The Pirates with Parrots thing is by and large based on truth. From the first time European seamen began visiting the tropical climes, they were fascinated with the colorful wildlife and MANY MANY seamen made a nice little side profit by bringing a few cages of monkeys and parrots back home to sell or to woo ladies with as gifts. Often they kept them as pets too. It was very popular and well documented.

Even Dampier himself writes about how fond the men on his voyages were of bringing home parrots, teaching them to talk, etc. One of the few "pirate myths" that's entirely true.

[Rumba Rue]

Regarding the use of arrrrr, I was doing it long before I got into any pirate related things including PRP. Infact I was told to stop it by the head, oops I mean jerk of the Irish group I had belonged to for a short time, prior to PRP.

It seems I've always done it, when grumbling about something, hurting myself, or other stupid things that I do. So maybe I've been a pirate at heart from the beginning!

As for the parrot thing, well I have one, and yes he sits on my shoulder, but with a 'napkin' under him on my shoulder so he doesn't mess up my clothes.

[Capt. Lazarus Gage]

Aye, the parrot in Treasure Island was John Silvers and his name was Capt. Flint. I was telling me wife just the other day how they should make a GOOD remake of Treasure Island. Me thinks Russell Crow would make a good Billy Bones and I always thought Sean Connery would make a good silver. Any ideas??

"Pieces of eight, Pieces of eight!!!!"

[Captain_MacNamara]

you know... with all the remakes they're making these days, I wonder why they haven't? And make it a little more true to the book as well.

And my sister has a parrot named Captain Flint

[MadMike]

Russell Crow as Billy Bones... "Me an' Tugger foitin' around the world!" (South Park spoof of Crow).

There is a late 1600's picture of buccaneers with a monkey (map cartouche, I believe).

The 1934 version of Treasure Island is to be shown on Turner Classic Movies on 15 September at 4:30 PM (Eastern). If you haven't seen it, check it out for the similarity of Newton's accent to Beery's. Personally, I found young Jackie Cooper's whining quite annoying (no wonder the pirates wanted him dead).

Otherwise it's an interesting flick.

Yours, &c.

Mike

[Gutterpunk13]

Ive thought they would make a treasure Island Remake for a long time now. especeally with the popularity of the whole Disney Carribein thing.. They should make a good billy bones.. one that looks like he could take on a hundred men and eat them alive .. like the painting in the Treasure island Book.. I love that painting..

Another book i like alot. is purely fact and is really good is Two years befor the mast its not a pirate book but i like it and i do belive there are some pirates in it though..

But anyways.. did sailors and pirates have "peg Legs"?

I wouldnt want a peg leg...

sounds difficult..

Much Respect

[Fox]

Don't know of any classic fictional pirates with wooden legs...

There's a passage in the Edward England chapter of Johnson's General History about "a fellow with a terrible pair of whiskers, and a wooden leg, being stuck round with pistols, like the man in the almanac with darts"...

There's also a bit in the Thomas Tew chapter (volume II) where the crew all cry out "A gold chain or a wooden leg, we'll stand by you". That whole chapter (and indeed at least half of that volume) is bollocks, so take it with a pinch of salt. It doesn't necessarily show an association between pirates and wooden legs, but it does show an association between dangerous living and prosthetic limbs.

[Capn_Enigma]

Let's not forget Franc(o)is Le Clerc, one of the first pirates of the Spanish Main (his nickname was "Jambe De Bois", "wooden leg").

[MadMike]

Check out the link for early prosthetics-

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results...eys1=Prosthesis

Yours, &C.

Mike

[Deadeye]

I actually think one of the Best John Silvers i ever saw was in a TI parody: Muppet Treasure Island.

Tim Curry wasawsome for John Silver. You truly believed his jovial demeanor and smile and liking twoward Jim, but when he was angry, you it was genuine and almost made yer skin crawl.

Also, I think a good actor to play Billy Bones would be Patrick Stewart. He is strong, and has a very commanding presence and that air of a man who would not sail "before the Mast"