Sword Technique

[Hawkyns]

Hawkyns;

You're preaching to the choir my friend. I am also Director of the Historical Maritime Combat Assoc, and spend much of my time training with live steel work, full contact in a variety of weapons; cutlass, knife, tomahawk, sabre and boarding pike. I started on the choreography end of things 17 years ago and find it comes in handy when approached to do demos for schools,as "pirates" without the protection used in one-on-one bouting.

In much of it we don't bother to pull the blows, we just fight a hair less forceful than if we were fighting for our lives.

I was addressing the mock-fight scenarios and in no way intended it to apply to historical study. However, I hope you'd agree that historical study is best done in the class-type setting and not in full costume in front of patrons and children. People who don't do what you and I do have a whole diferent view of pirate era fighting. They want the romance, the swashbuckling, the showmanship; and in most cases from my experience historical combat in protective gear, stopping to explain things as you go doesn't appeal to the general public.

As to the flat vs edge parries; it's been worn thin on several other lists so I won't dwell on it overmuch here. Its my experience that the static flat parries are useless, taking time away from angulation of the blade on the return strike. Instead of static parries, I teach either re-directing parries, glancing parries (which cause the incoming blade to glance away, thus freeing yours up for riposte) or avoiding the other weapon altogether. These are always accompanied by traverses where possible, or stunted versions of inquartatas. My cutlass classes are all fought with students inside an 8 foot circle,(replicating close quarter, limited moblity combat). The blades more often than not must then be used evasively and often do not touch at all during the brief engagement. The short length of a cutlass creates the ability to use it as a long knife, sometimes even with two hands. My work with both Navaja and Bowie make it easy to use the cutlass without it ever contacting the other weapon. This, historically speaking (yet at this point theoretical) would explaing the lack of damage to actual antique pieces.

This is really oversymplifying things; it's take several pages to explain my thoughts on the subject in any great detail.

May I also say that's its a pleasure to read your posts on the topic and I look forward to other discussions in the future. --------------------

Monterey Jack

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Great! We're both on the same page, then. I've done multiple kinds of sword combat from a bit of Ken Jutsu, to Escrima, through SCA combat (heavy and light) and on into the more historical stuff.

Right now, I'm working with a couple of students. We've been working from Terry Brown's "English Martial Arts' with a heavy dose of Silver thrown in. Using re-enactment blunts, 3/4 speed, no head thrusts, and no armour, for the most part. I like Silver, as it works well with the close quarters combat and translates well to cutlass. I just picked up a new book "Master of Defence- The Works of George Silver" by Paul Wagner. Still working my way through it, but its about 250 pages of commentary and comparison (the comparison to Musahi is VERY interesting) and then the original text in the back. This may well become my new training manual, much though I like Terry's work.

As far as the flat parry is concerned, it works for me. At close range, 2-3 feet, that fast parry with the blade in the near vertical position is a natural for the flat. The blade is already in poition for the cut, without having to twist the wrist quickly in a very short space and time. The riposte is a natural and just flows, whether in a head, body, or leg cut.

Hawkyns

[Killian]

I would love to see something that dirrectly deals with cutlass combat.

[Monterey Jack]

Hawkyns;

You're preaching to the choir my friend.

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Great! We're both on the same page, then. I've done multiple kinds of sword combat from a bit of Ken Jutsu, to Escrima, through SCA combat (heavy and light) and on into the more historical stuff.

.

As far as the flat parry is concerned, it works for me. At close range, 2-3 feet, that fast parry with the blade in the near vertical position is a natural for the flat. The blade is already in poition for the cut, without having to twist the wrist quickly in a very short space and time. The riposte is a natural and just flows, whether in a head, body, or leg cut.

Hawkyns

There you are!

Thanks for re-activating the discussion; I've been busy off-list trying to put together a cutlass class out here on the west coast and its taking more time away from casual conversation.

Sounds like you're working from the earlier masters; I tend to work from Corbesier, Hutton, Angelo and the 19th century swordmasters to get my overview of military sabre and its adaptation to cutlass.

Have you talked with Terry? he was a great help to me last year when I was going thru my "pike phase". I'd hoped to meet up with him at ISMAC this year but he couldn't make it over the big pond.

On your flat parry then, are you using it in transistion into the return cut? If you notice my previous post I was talking about the static parry on the flat, which is just a place dead stop. I can see where a flat parry in transit would work fine, especially if you're already on your way to cutting the opponent. At that point you really can't stop to wonder if your blade angulation is technically correct.

[Monterey Jack]

I would love to see something that dirrectly deals with cutlass combat.

You will.

The HMCA is in the final stages of a book on boarding weapons techniques that should see publication next summer. We're releasing it in conjunction with the next set of classes at ISMAC as well as one that will hopefully be out here on the west coast this spring. You can keep up on its progress at Maritimecombat@yahoogroups.com

[Killian]

Excelent, As soon as I get home I will be checking it out. Thank you.

[Monterey Jack]

Excelent, As soon as I get home I will be checking it out. Thank you.

The Maritime Combat list at Yahoogroups is set up for all types of discussions of 17th -19th century maritime combat weaponry. As we get closer to publication we'll be sending out notices more often. Introduce yourself when you get there, we'd love to have ye!

[Hawkyns]

Sounds like you're working from the earlier masters; I tend to work from Corbesier, Hutton, Angelo and the 19th century swordmasters to get my overview of military sabre and its adaptation to cutlass.

Have you talked with Terry? he was a great help to me last year when I was going thru my "pike phase". I'd hoped to meet up with him at ISMAC this year but he couldn't make it over the big pond.

On your flat parry then, are you using it in transistion into the return cut? If you notice my previous post I was talking about the static parry on the flat, which is just a place dead stop. I can see where a flat parry in transit would work fine, especially if you're already on your way to cutting the opponent. At that point you really can't stop to wonder if your blade angulation is technically correct.

Yeah, I prefer the late Elizabethan/early Jacobean period, though I will actully stretch my re-enacting from about 1470 to 1763. Not much written for the cutlass in that period. It's why I prefer Silver. It's a combat form, not a salle excersize for bored noblemen. I find many of the broadsword techniques translate well to the cutlass. Now that there's a good translation to I-33, I want to look at that, too. Certainly the shorter broadsword and buckler from the illustrations seem reasonable.

Never had the opportunity to meet Terry, unfortunately. I've met some of the Tower Armouries lads when they've come over to the Higgins Armoury classes, but that's it.

I've found that at 3 foot range there's little call for static parries. Keep moving or get hit is about it. Plus, we frequently have a left hand something- buckler, dagger, or belaying pin. Every move is a counter to a riposte to a parry.....you get the idea. I've been told it has a somewhat Japanese look to occasionally.

Hawkyns

[Monterey Jack]

Yeah, I prefer the late Elizabethan/early Jacobean period, though I will actully stretch my re-enacting from about 1470 to 1763. Not much written for the cutlass in that period. It's why I prefer Silver. Now that there's a good translation to I-33, I want to look at that, too. .

I've found that at 3 foot range there's little call for static parries. Keep moving or get hit is about it. Plus, we frequently have a left hand something- buckler, dagger, or belaying pin. Every move is a counter to a riposte to a parry.....you get the idea. I've been told it has a somewhat Japanese look to occasionally.

Going thru my early rapier phase I couldn't stand Silver; after re -reading him and working a bit with Steaphen Fick from DEMAS I can really appreciate his work. And you're spot on about broadsword to cutlass; it's what Angelo used to base his cutlass work on. In fact much of the 19th century military sabre work comes from broadsword and backsword, so its not surprising that it ended up being the training technique for cutlass when they finally got around to teaching it aboard ship.

If you ever get the chance to study with him, take a clas on I33 from Maestro Sean Hayes. He is working the I33 stuff in depth and has a lot to offer. Of course I'm relatively biased since we have a beer together a couple times a month, but he is making some serious inroads to breaking down the text.

I understand your use of the flat entirely now; your application makes good sense in transistion from one position to another. And its always interesting to find that there are often serious correlations between Western and Eastern technique.