Cutlasses

[blackjohn]

So Jack, if you were going to buy a cutlass today, for staged demo type combat, whose would you purchase, and why?

[Monterey Jack]

So Jack, if you were going to buy a cutlass today, for staged demo type combat, whose would you purchase, and why?

For the demos I did at ISMAC this year I provided the students with 10 of my cutlasses from Popinjay(Adam Williams) out of Bangor, Maine. Sturdy, relatively inexpensive, light and well balanced. They also ring like the devil and draw spectators from across the faire.

They aren't showy pieces, but then for Stage they don't need to be. You can see the cutlasses he and I designed on his website, www.popinj.com

They are also of full tang construction. the whole cutlass is one piece of steel and the tang is good and thick.

[Hawkyns]

For those interested in the technique discussion, I've started another thread in Twill.

Hawkyns

[blackjohn]

You can see the cutlasses he and I designed on his website, www.popinj.com

Those are pretty neat, and a full tang is nice. I seem to recall seeing something very similar in Swords and Blades last night. I'm curious, if the two of you came up with the design, and he built them, why not come up with another design, a little more appropriate to 1715, and build more???

[Monterey Jack]

Those are pretty neat, and a full tang is nice. I seem to recall seeing something very similar in Swords and Blades last night. I'm curious, if the two of you came up with the design, and he built them, why not come up with another design, a little more appropriate to 1715, and build more???

I just sent him the design I wanted and he took it from there, with a couple of test runs. We traded photos back nd forth for about a month. If you have something specific you can send him the idea and he can likely build it for you. Also, I've had some nice pieces that had lousy blades, and he refit the existing hilts with fightable blades, so you have that option as well. Say you like a sabre that Dixes guinworks has for $75, but it's not combat worthy; buy it ans ship it to him and for about $100 he'll refit it for you. Working blade at reasonable cost.

[Monterey Jack]

Apologies for the really lousy spelling on that last post; I've only been awake for about 5 minutes.

[Deadeye]

I had a question Mates...

As a Gift for me Birthday, my Family has hinted that they want to get me the Cutlass from Windlass Steelcraft with the basket guard. I Love the look of this sword, and as for authenticity of design I say "looks good to me" (to me it looks like a cross between a Scottish Basket-hilted backsword and the Mortuary hilt small sword -both period weapons- with a cutlass blade). I have used windlass blades before (I even sold them at one point) and find them to be good entry-level swords, but i was wondering what ye all think of this blade to help me further my knowlege and skill with a cutlass untill i can afford somthing from Dominion or PopinJay? i would, of course grind the edge down to about 1/16th" or so for safety and strength. Any thoughts welcome.

Cutlass picture

[Hawkyns]

Hard to tell from the picture. About 10 years ago, MR/Windlass had a shell guard cutlass that had what appears to be the same blade. I bought one. Now, it rarely sees the light of day because it's bloody heavy. I say this as a swordsman who is used to heavy basket hilts and combat blunts. That cutlass has a 1/4 inch spine and is point heavy. The basket hilt is relatively thin and doesn't give enough weight to counter balance. If the weapons have not changed over the years, I would not cxonsider this a decent blade to practice combat skills. As a pell sword it might be OK, it would certainly build your forearms and wrists. My take is that it would be too slow and too much mass for doing any serious swordplay.

Hawkyns

[Zorg]

I am referring to their "Classic Pirate Cutlass", which is extremely similar to, although not exactly like the cutlass of Captain Benjamin Church, dated 1675-1678.

Deja vu. Did we have this conversation already? Or was that with someone else? I know this came up within the last week or three. Maybe even in this thread? (But I'm to busy too go back and look.)

Anyway... the two swords in question.

True, they appear from these pics to be close. But we do know that the DeadMen cutlass is a repro of a RevWar era sword. The tip of the blades don't match. Neither do the guards. On the plus side, it is dirt cheap, and guys I know have modified them into looking even more like a sword from our period.

Just as a note, I use the bottom sword in question (I believe Cascabel uses it as well) and have found it stout and well constructed. I also believe this company makes some boucan style knives, though I've only found pictures of them and never a source.

[Zorg]

Hard to tell from the picture. About 10 years ago, MR/Windlass had a shell guard cutlass that had what appears to be the same blade. I bought one. Now, it rarely sees the light of day because it's bloody heavy. I say this as a swordsman who is used to heavy basket hilts and combat blunts. That cutlass has a 1/4 inch spine and is point heavy. The basket hilt is relatively thin and doesn't give enough weight to counter balance. If the weapons have not changed over the years, I would not cxonsider this a decent blade to practice combat skills. As a pell sword it might be OK, it would certainly build your forearms and wrists. My take is that it would be too slow and too much mass for doing any serious swordplay.

Hawkyns

And I fully agree with ye Master hawkins, the things a serious forarm exercise unit. The end heavy blade is as much an axe as a sword, and finesse isn't its forte.

The main thing to recommend it is that it's stout and monsterous cheap for such a solid piece. It also tends to resemble earlier period cuttos whose primary use was more to the hacking line and timber end of things (as oppose to the slicing skin and gristle end). There seem to be a couple of variants to the blade shape and weight over the years, as well as minor changes in the guard. These seem to be more a matter of who was making the thing rather than intentional design alterations.

I've considered picking up another and regrinding the blade to make her less nose heavy. As tis, I have other activities to build up my forarms rather than swinging this thing.

How say you?

[Zorg]

I also must admit to being highly amused by the fact that deadmentellnotales.com has seen fit to place a CHOAKING HAZARD warning beneath the ad for this sword.

Now THAT's drinkin!!

[Deadeye]

And I fully agree with ye Master hawkins, the things a serious forarm exercise unit. The end heavy blade is as much an axe as a sword, and finesse isn't its forte.

Thankye for the Input, Me Zork, and Master Hawkyns. Yer Advise be duely logged, but it raises a point i must bring up...

E'erything I've read about cutlass from the GAoP, before they became standard naval issue and refined, was that they were very clumsy and crude weapons, meant for cutting through everything from rigging and people as well as vines and foliage. almost a cross between axe and sword.

In sayin' that, perhaps Windlass has made a blade that is historically accurate? jus a thought. I have also heard that in the last 5 years or so Windlass has improved their blade quality and manufacturing and tempering techniques so I'm hoping fer the best....

Cheers mates...

[Deadeye]

BTW... the weight of this here sword is listed at 2lbs 10oz. about the same as a well made basket-hilt, i wager?

[blackjohn]

I had a question Mates...

wondering what ye all think of this blade

Cutlass picture

My suggestion... don't do it. I just looked at every sword in Swords and Blades, and it doesn't really resemble any of them. I'll look at ever sword in two other books, but I'm pretty certain I'll come up with the same answer.

I'd rather see you buy the big chunky RevWar cutlass for dirt cheap and cut it down to something that looks close than spend $200 on something that, as far as my research tells me thus far, is completely fanciful.

Just my opinion. That and $4.25 will get you a triple venti latte at Starbucks.

[Deadeye]

My suggestion... don't do it. I just looked at every sword in Swords and Blades, and it doesn't really resemble any of them

True, it doesnt look exactly like most cutlasses, But i have seen similar baskets on other swords... the other one i like is called the Pirate's Companion From Windlass and it is just a basic, brass bowl guard cutlass. Of Course, I am not the one buying it so what i get is what i wind up with.

I have a very hard time refusing a gift from anyone, so if i do get this sword, I will keep it, and in the meantime save for and Old Dominion.

[Deadeye]

Loyalist Arms has several nice blades, does anyone know anything about their fortitude? they also sell one similar but not identical to the Windlass cutlass. I'm also lookin for references to that style of basket, blackjohn.

[blackjohn]

Opinions are cheap, especially mine.

You may want to go back to the beginning and re-read this thread. I especially like the bit where we get to, "just what are you going to use it for?" In my group, there are definately swords I'd rather not see people using, especially if we are "re-enacting" pirates. If we are at an event like the Pirate Feast or the MD RenFest, I'm much more loosey goosey than usual. And of course, other groups have different rules.

I'm pressed for time right now. I'll reply tomorrow...

[Captain_MacNamara]

the other one i like is called the Pirate's Companion

Here's a picture of said blade:

Most of the time, on EBAY, you can find the exact same blade for $60 - $80 instead of the $145 that Museum Replicas charges. I've found that if I like something from MR, I can usually find the exact same thing somewhere else for 1/2 to 3/4 the price.

This sword is not currently on ebay, but keep a weather eye... it pops up every once in a while.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Don't let John fool you... his opinion is not cheap he really knows his stuff. He is a diplomat though and has used subtlety to say in the nicest way, that ain’t a GAoP sword.

Again, the question really is what do you want to do with it? If you want to sword fight others, then you should get a sword specifically made for that. And chances are that its not going to be “authentic” for GAoP.

John posted a really nice Hanger in an earlier thread. Its really nice and very good looking for GAoP. Also, Cold Steel makes a nice Smallsword

I saw one of the Prototypes in Munich a few years ago, but it was pre-production. As far as authentic and usuable goes, probably as good as anything available in the smallsword line unless someone makes one custom for you.

That "baskety" hilt pirate sword you posted.... doesn't look like anything I have seen in Swords and Blades otAR.... unless I missed something.

If you like the baskety hilt, why not go for a English/Scottish broadsword. Authentic for our period (wasn't Blackbeard's head hacked off with one?)

Good luck

GoF

[Deadeye]

If you like the baskety hilt, why not go for a English/Scottish broadsword. Authentic for our period (wasn't Blackbeard's head hacked off with one?)

The Scottish Basket-hilt has long been one of my favorite, and seeing as how i try to show love to the Scottish Pirates and sailors of the day, would be a very fitting choice. I have always liked the CAS Iberia Practical Backsword. does anyone know of another Good sturdy basket-hilt or Cutlass like the Pirates Companion?

And as for Blackjohn's opinion: I know it is certainly not cheap, and i can also take a hint . The Reason i came to this pub was to Improve my resources and learn as much as I can. You Blokes are helping and I commend ye..

[blackjohn]

Thanks for the kind words. We, as a forum, are certainly blessed with a great group of knowledgeable folks. You Greg, and Foxe, and the Royaliste, and Dorian, and Hawkyns, and the list goes on and on...

Here's to ya!

[Deadeye]

Thanks for the kind words

I don't tend to blow smoke, and try like Hell and damnation to always be square with me mates. And truth be told I will always appreciate someones Genuine opinion to someone tellin me what i wants ta hear.

*tugs his forelock to ye all*

Now on the blade front, I think i have settled on the Practical Basket-Hilted Backsword from Weapons Emporium. I appologize for my inability to post pictures, these 'puters tend to confound me a bit...

[thepiratecaptainmorgan]

And for those mateys that havn't a small fortune to spend, just to be piratical in nature,,,,,

Good strong Cheap Cutlass

[Deadeye]

And for those mateys that havn't a small fortune to spend, just to be piratical in nature,,,,,

Good strong Cheap Cutlass

I actually own that same sword. it was a gift from a friend who didnt know any better. The Blade is Aluminum, not steel, and the guard and handle are cast pot metal which makes it so topheavy that it is hard to carry in a belt as it is constantly trying to capsize!

[JoshuaRed]

I have yet to see an accurate Gaop hanger online, but places like armourclass.com in Scotland make some amazing period hangers for the 17th century.

Old Dominion Forge also makes one helluva fine looking sword. In the end I chose to go with a simple boarding axe instead of carrying around a totally inaccurate cutlass. Just something ya might want to think about....there are other great weapons besides cutlasses.