Gentleman Jeff Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 Ahoy Mates! I am thinking of buying a new cutlass and wondered if you historical types could point me in the direction of the best and most authentic commercially available replica of a cutlass on the market today? I would prefer it to be a functional replica, not a wall hanger made with cast metal parts. I have found one on the internet, referred to on several sites as a "rustic pirate's cutlass", and so far it is closest to fitting my bill, but I thought you all might know of somewhere else that had one a bit better. I like the plain, no-nonsense, aged and worn look of this cutlass. To my mind it comes closer to the type of sword a common pirate would have had. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
blackjohn Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 Ahoy Mates! I am thinking of buying a new cutlass and wondered if you historical types could point me in the direction of the best and most authentic commercially available replica of a cutlass on the market today? Sure, I can do that. Most of the stuff out there labeled as pirate cutlass or cutlass is pure junk. Hmmm... no, now that I think about it, everything I've seen out there labeled as a pirate cutlass is junk. You want to go to Old Dominion Forge and spend your money. You'll spend alot. But you'll get the perfect sword. http://www.olddominionforge.com/swords.html My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
hurricane Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 Spend the money... if you amortize your equipment over 10 or 20 years, it's better to get the good stuff once than replace cheaper equipment many times. I still have my original pirate boots from 20 years ago. Comes out to something like $4 a year if I spread the original cost over the years I've used them. And they have many more years left... I've probably spent $650 on the many swords I purchased and still don't have the perfect sword. I could have just got one there and been done with it. I love the Iron Mounted American Hanger on the site. That is a beaut!!!! Saving my nickels and doubloons now for that. Thanks Blackjohn... -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com
MadMike Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 The "Classic Pirate Cutlass" offered by several distributors is according to Peterson's "Arms and Armor in Colonial America" a copy of that used by Captain Benjamin Church and dates from 1675-78 (p. 81). I've seen the same style pictured in "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", dated 1770-1800 (page 187). http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/page/DM/...M/PROD/S7/CPCut It's a well made piece. I used steel wool to take off the "antique" finish. Yours, &c. Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin.
Gentleman of Fortune Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 I second Black John's reccomendation for Old Dominion Forge. You can pretty much go through Swords and Blades of the American revolution, pick one you like, and Kyle can make it for you. I have collected some GAoP weapon information and posted it here Weapons for the Golden Age of Piracy Mike has posted a nice replica of a cutlass (Mike always has great links!), but like he says in his post, its for the end of the 18th century and more appropriate for Rev War/F & I privateer than for golden age. The "cutlass" that we think of did not really come together till later in the 18th century. For GAoP there were hangers, hunting swords, small swords etc. There are other bespoke swordsmiths that could probably make something that you could use... but bespoke weapons are expensive (but I would charge a lot too if I could make them!). Good luck GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
blackjohn Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 The "Classic Pirate Cutlass" offered by several distributors is according to Peterson's "Arms and Armor in Colonial America" a copy of that used by Captain Benjamin Church and dates from 1675-78 (p. 81). I've seen the same style pictured in "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", dated 1770-1800 (page 187). http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/page/DM/...M/PROD/S7/CPCut It's a well made piece. I used steel wool to take off the "antique" finish. Yours, &c. Mike That's interesting Mike. I've never seen the reference placing that sword so early. I wonder which is correct. It certainly matches the style of all the other swords it is grouped with in Swords and Blades. It's also interesting that Gilkerson doesn't mention it in Borders Away. Another possible choice is Godwin's hunting sword: http://www.gggodwin.com/swords.htm Stylistically, it has alot of wiggle room. I've seen similar swords dated as late as the Rev and as early as 1710, possibly even earlier. But again, like Hurricane, I've spent at least $600 on swords over the years. I have... five I think. If I had known about Dominion Forge... My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
Gentleman Jeff Posted August 21, 2005 Author Posted August 21, 2005 Thanks, Mates, for all of your helpful advice. The sword I am particularly interested in is the one in the link posted by Mad Mike. I like it for its simple ruggedness; no fancy frills. The only thing is, I don't think it comes with a scabbard, I'd have to make one myself for it, but that is no trouble as I make all manner of leather stuff anyway.
MadMike Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 Blackjohn, Just located a better picture of the Church sword which does in fact show a difference from the cutlass offered by DeadMenTellNoTales.com- http://www.snowshoemen.com/Gear/photos/photo_42.html The picture I saw in Peterson's book was a profile shot, which made it look similar to the cutlass. Yours, &c. Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin.
hurricane Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 I have three of the Dead Men cutlasses. They are nicely built, but I think they're a bit bulky, particularly around the hilt area. They also dent very easily, so you never want to cross swords with others. It is a nice costume piece - I wear is on occasion meself - but it's certainly not in the class of the one from Old Dominion. It seems to have a more elegant scale to it. Both look very much like a Dutch cutlass I once coveted that was 1690s period. I still regret not picking that sword up in an antique shop for $60 so many years ago. That's what I got for being cheap. Lesson learned. Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com
capnwilliam Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 [quote=You want to go to Old Dominion Forge and spend your money. You'll spend alot. But you'll get the perfect sword. http://www.olddominionforge.com/swords.html Aye, from the oictures, he has some really beautiful stuff, and not just swords. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!"
Master Sully Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 I have the same sword as Mad Mike, and it is a beaut! I had to trim off the pointy end on the cup, so not to stick me in the side as I was sliding it in and out of my belt. It is strong and can be sharpened. "Remember, on a pirate ship, in pirate waters, in a pirate world, ask no questions. Believe only what you see. No, believe half of what you see."... Burt Lancaster DUM SPIRO SPERO... WHILE I BREATH, I HOPE
Gentleman Jeff Posted August 21, 2005 Author Posted August 21, 2005 Hurricane, Is it the cup which dents easily on the sword from DeadMenTellNoTales.com? If so, that should be a very straightforward item to fix. Just remove the old one, flatten it out with a hammer and trace the pattern onto a piece of heavier steel. Cut it out, dish it properly with a ball peen hammer and reinstall it on the sword. As long as the blade is sturdy, I can fix the rest. I like several of the cutlass hilts from Old Dominion Forge, the ones which look like double clam shells.
hurricane Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 The blade dents easily. We used them in a pirate play we did for a corporate client and just a few whacks against each other during a fight scene put some pretty deep nicks in the edge. They're fine for dress wear but not for blade to blade work. -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com
Capt. Morgan Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 I, too, am now saving for something (or a few things) from Old Dominion... beautiful work! And, I also have spent too much on inferior blades... my next (and hopefully last) will be an Old Dominion... besides, they are close enough I could go for a visit, only about 2 hours from home! Touche' Ship's Marksman & Crab Fiend Pyrates of the Coast "All the skill in the world goes out the window if an angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket." "Florida points like a guiding thumb, To the southern isles of rumba and rum, To the mystery cities and haunted seas, Of the Spanish Main and the Caribbees..."
Monterey Jack Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Sailin in two days late into port as always.... My student cutlasses I get from Popinjays in bangor Maine (popinj.com). Very useable, very nice looking and very cost-friendly. Or for a little more coin , and well worth it, drop a note to Scott Wilson at Darkwood Armory (darkwoodarmory.com). I got to look at the first couple of his; a hanger and a cutlass and they both handle well, are very accurate in style, plus he can likely make any type you want. My Instructors cutlass is being made by him. Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........."
Deadeye Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 If You are Not so Concerned with yer blade bein sharp, but more of a stage combat safety Blade that will still take one hellacious beatin, i reccomend Starfire Blades. I have personally used them for stage combat and sparring and they take a whollopin for sure and look very rugged and accurate... - 10 Fathoms Deep on the Road to Hell... Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum...
Capt. Morgan Posted August 25, 2005 Posted August 25, 2005 Just for info, I contacted Kyle at Old Dominion Forge, and he said there is a waiting list for swords of almost 2 years!! That gives us plenty of time to save our doubloons, reales, and pieces of eight... Touche' Ship's Marksman & Crab Fiend Pyrates of the Coast "All the skill in the world goes out the window if an angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket." "Florida points like a guiding thumb, To the southern isles of rumba and rum, To the mystery cities and haunted seas, Of the Spanish Main and the Caribbees..."
Hawkyns Posted August 25, 2005 Posted August 25, 2005 Or for a little more coin , and well worth it, drop a note to Scott Wilson at Darkwood Armory (darkwoodarmory.com). I got to look at the first couple of his; a hanger and a cutlass and they both handle well, are very accurate in style, plus he can likely make any type you want. My Instructors cutlass is being made by him. I picked up one of Darkwood's shell guard cutlasses at Pennsic. WOW!!! Great balance, well made, and beautiful. I got one with a fighting blunt blade, so I'm looking forward to trying it out on my cadets and crew. By sheer chance, it matches exactly the live steel piece I've been carrying for years. Same lenght, weight, curve and balance. Even fits the same scabbard. This is the sixth blade I've boaught from Scott. I cou;d not be happier with it. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends.
Capt. Lazarus Gage Posted August 28, 2005 Posted August 28, 2005 I also am looking for the perfect sword, but only have around 200$ too spend, any advice?
Gentleman Jeff Posted August 29, 2005 Author Posted August 29, 2005 Well, although Old Dominion Forge's work is absolutely outstanding, I must go with something a bit more within my budget. I have decided on the cutlass from DeadMenTellNoTales.com. It's style definitely fits the period, and would not look out of place, and it's reasonably priced, and looks as if it could easily lop the head off of any scurvy dog who provoked me... aye, 'tis the blade for me. :)
Gentleman of Fortune Posted August 29, 2005 Posted August 29, 2005 Just curious as to what period of piracy did you decide on? Good luck with your cutlass! GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
blackjohn Posted August 30, 2005 Posted August 30, 2005 I also am looking for the perfect sword, but only have around 200$ too spend, any advice? Sure. My advice. Either stop looking for the perfect sword, or get more money. :) Ok, useful advice... do a search under this forum for sword or cutlass. You'll find plenty of discussion on the topic. Godwin sells a decent hunting sword for just a bit more than $200. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together.
hurricane Posted August 30, 2005 Posted August 30, 2005 Aye second that, Blackjohn. You get what you pay for. If you just want an ornamental piece, then the deadmen pieces are fine. Just don't whack them against another sword. They're not for play. Me... I've learned my lesson and will await the perfect sword with money in hand and stop buying the cheaper pieces that only end up costing me more over time. -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com
tishsparrow Posted August 30, 2005 Posted August 30, 2005 i dont know what cutlasses they have, or what quality they are, but the bud k catalog has a LOT of stuff... and being as i am on an extremely small budget, thats the place for me.
Gentleman of Fortune Posted August 30, 2005 Posted August 30, 2005 GACK! As the regulars have eluded to (or outright said). Its very difficult, no impossible to get decent steel for cheap. But all this is a moot point really. For all those needing to get or just want to buy a pirate sword.... 1) Decide if you want to have an overall appearance of a historically accurate pirate, or a Pirate that leans towards hollywoodesque (ie you don't care about authenticity, you just want to have a good time. 2) Is it for show, or do you need to use it for stage/theatrical fighting? 3)How much money do you want to spend? Depending on what you want if for, applying the above criteria gets different results. I guess the bottom line is that there are very few commercially available swords used by seamen during the 1690-1725ish period. John Posted a hanger that looks decent, but it might not stand up to much theatrical blade on blade contact. Thats $200 There is the 1742 "pattern" sword that is being made in India(?) and the sword has similar precursors that date to around 1725… again, it looks ok but will not be good for stage fighting But for $90 here you go But for the really nice stuff... be ready to shell out serious money $500 plus for a custom made reproduction of a historical blade. BUT IF you are a good time, authenticity is not the issue, "i want me sword" pirate... geesh you could get anything that comes up when you google "pirate sword". Or you can search the post in plunder for swords that members here have given their okey dokey on for stage fighting. A lot of "fencing" suppliers are carrying period styled smallsword epee' and foil swords. Find out what the group you want to hang out with has and get one of what they got..... GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!
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