Firefly

[Mission]

True. I actually stopped watching BSG after season 2. They drag those cliffhangers out wayyyyy too long for me. I don't have the patience for it. I do think it has slightly better writing than Firefly, though. The story arc draws you in more.

As for moodiness, well...I have just come off watching a show called The Adventures of Sir Lancelot which was unrelentingly upbeat and cheerful, so I may be unwittingly making an unfair comparison. (However, Lancelot was a fun show IMO. In many ways I prefer that sort of thing at an integral level. It's the kid in me.)

[blackjohn]

True. I actually stopped watching BSG after season 2.

Oh man, you have missed some of the BEST scifi tv to ever air. There's this one whole part that just... is pretty darned spectacular. I mean, like... you can't even begin to imagine... how could he do that... I mean... c'mon... that's crazy...

They drag those cliffhangers out wayyyyy too long for me.

Agreed. Completely. That's why I play catch-up tv. I just don't like watching tv the old-fashioned way. One week at a time... how 20thC.

I do think it has slightly better writing than Firefly, though. The story arc draws you in more.

Agreed, again. The story is compelling, and it continues to go in interesting directions.

[Mission]

They drag those cliffhangers out wayyyyy too long for me.

Agreed. Completely. That's why I play catch-up tv. I just don't like watching tv the old-fashioned way. One week at a time... how 20thC.

I should mention that I don't have TV reception. In fact, I refuse to get TV reception. This is actually part of the reason I don't have internet service as well. They either want me to get a home phone (NO!) or standard cable (Double NO!) in order to get internet. Until they offer a good deal on Internet without the crap I don't want coming into my house, I won't do it. (Not that I'm stubborn or anything...)

Anyhow, upshot of that is that the cliffhangers tax my patience even when I get them from NetFlix! Cut it out, can't'cha? One, maybe two shows is enough to wrap something up for chrissakes! (Still, it is good writing. It really grabs ya'.)

[blackjohn]

I think this is supposed to be the final season. So... not that I really advocate the watching of tv... but... if you find yourself sitting in front of one wanting to watch some scifi other than Firefly...

[Ransom]

Like Mission, we don't have TV at our place. Haven't for about 15 yrs. Too far out for cable, and won't pay the satelite fees. So, we've been renting many TV series from Blockbuster. Started with House, which I love (still going on that one), then watched Deadwood. Also 24, and BSG, which we're still working on. It took me a month to be able to get Firefly, as the first disc was always out, and I didn't want to start it in the middle of the story. We finally were able to rent the first two discs of the four available. Gotta say, I'm hooked. Will probably buy the whole set, if I can find it at a reasonable price. I think I agree, though, that the stories on BSG are a lot more intense.

Oh, and the other nice thing about renting the series, is that you don't have to suffer through a ton of stupid commercials. I first saw House on cable at a motel in Ojai. The commercials drove me crazy. So, even though I have to wait for the episodes to be released on DVD, I'd rather watch the shows commercial free.

Just a trivia note. I thought it was interesting that Wat on Firefly, also played Wat in A Knight's Tale.

[blackjohn]

If I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times...

“There’s nothing on it worthwhile, and we’re not going to watch it in this household, and I don’t want it in your intellectual diet.”

Quote attributed to Phil T. Farnsworth.

[Rats]

RedJessi and I were exchanging things and she sent me a copy of all the Firefly seasons.

(Not to get OT, but she drew a skull on the back of the package which I thought was sort of funny, so I scanned it in for everyone to enjoy.

It sort of has a Punisher thing going on, which makes sense given Jessi's love of comic books. Jessi's cool.)

Anyhow, I am re-watching Firefly. (I talked about watching it the first time back in the early days of this thread.) I like it a little better because I know the characters this time going in. I am still struck by the hokey adoption of the midwestern accents, particularly by Mal (who can at least sort of pull it off) and Kaylee (who can't.) But it's a minor beef, so I'll try to banish it from my mind in the future.

This is still an awfully moody show. Nice set up in the first episode, though. I can see where this could have been a good show, but I suspect, based on the characters and Weadon's propensity for choosing odd paths for his characters in later seasons of other series that it would have been even better if it had a particular story arc and length like Battlestar Galactica did.

How cool is that!! Just watch and Enjoy!!!

[Mary Diamond]

I didn't realize Zoe from Firefly was Lawrence Fishburn's wife! Nor did I realize she had also been in the Matrix, Hercules, Zena, CSI, etc. Loved Wat in a Knight's Tale...

[Ransom]

I didn't realize Zoe from Firefly was Lawrence Fishburn's wife! Nor did I realize she had also been in the Matrix, Hercules, Zena, CSI, etc. Loved Wat in a Knight's Tale...

Wat in a Knight's Tale was my favorite character...right after Paul Betteny as Chaucer. "And now, for all of you people NOT sitting on a cushion." Classic!

[Mary Diamond]

I didn't realize Zoe from Firefly was Lawrence Fishburn's wife! Nor did I realize she had also been in the Matrix, Hercules, Zena, CSI, etc. Loved Wat in a Knight's Tale...

Wat in a Knight's Tale was my favorite character...right after Paul Betteny as Chaucer. "And now, for all of you people NOT sitting on a cushion." Classic!

I Loved him just strolling down the lane, naked as the day he was born, and oh so casual! Funny, but it made me think of Waking Ned Devine.

[Duchess]

Wash. Hoban Washburne.

An entirely awesome name.

[Mission]

The train episode is one one of my favorites. It borrows heavily from traditional westerns (barroom brawls, train heists, ill townsfolk in border towns) and the drugging of Jayne is pretty funny. One other favorite I remember is a later episode...one with some guy who shows up on the ship and causes no end of trouble - an African American guy I believe. I remember really liking that character for some reason.

I figured something out about the language and my irritation with it. Some of them do drop g's which is obnoxious, particularly because they aren't consistent with it, but it's also the way certain characters talk. As a example (the only one I can think of off the top of my head) Mal says something like, "Get some passengers; them as can pay."

Now these scripts have all sorts of interesting colloquialisms in them like the disguised swear words (for which they owe a debt of gratitude to Johnny Dangerously. "Someone stole my fake swear word technique once. Once!") and the Chinese (Which I do like, although the lack of Chinese characters in most of the shows really quite puzzles me. If Chinese is so ubiquitous that it is incorporated into every day crew language why aren't there Chinese everywhere? Particularly in the government/Alliance?)

However changing words and adding strange phrasing is sort of just odd and strikes a false note IMO. That pulls me out of the story and causes me to realize I am just watching some show - which irritates the heck out of me. I mean, what's wrong with "Those that can pay"? I also notice that it appears to be primarily in dialog given to certain characters, suggesting some sort of unspoken class structure. (I hear it from Rev. Book, Mal, Kaylee and maybe Jayne - not sure of that one.) So that's part of what I keep babbling about. Ok, now I promise to say no more about it. Unless I do.

[Duchess]

I had always taken it to be an indication of class. Notice that those whom we know to have had rigorous formal education, Simon, Inara and River, do not have the trait. Those whom we suspect have no formal education, certainly Mal and Kaylee, do. Jayne rather has his own sort of thing which suits his terribly intuitive though not awfully smart persona. Wash, Zoe and the Shepard, I don't recall to stick out particularly in the speech line, but I'd have to watch the show again.....

Ah the elusive totally justified excuse!

[Mission]

Simon is my self-perception of the character I identify with - with some odd bits of Mal thrown in. River is my favorite character. I do have the midwestern 'g' dropping thing going on, however. (Sometimes I do it on purpose which is why I can spot a false attempt so well.)

[Cpt Sophia M Eisley]

Mission - Objects in Space's uninvited guest was named Jubal Early. I recall in interviews, and perhaps commentary Nathan mentions the man's name was used because he mentioned it to Joss. The real Early is an ancestor of Nathan's (American Civil War general).

Speaking of that episode, I like that River took charge in her own way and messed with Early a bit. He spent alot of the episode whomping or terrorizing in effort to collect his bounty (River), and got his comeuppins in the end.

[blackjohn]

Objects in Space... good stuff. Best episode imho.

[Red-Handed Jill]

I'm partial to "Our Mrs. Reynolds" - it has some of the funniest lines EVER.

And if you want to see a whole new side of Jewel Staite (Kaylee), check out Wonderfalls (a terrific series that was cut short due to network mismanagement. You can find it on Netflix.)

[Rats]

Agreed! Mrs. Reynolds was very..... naughty??!

All BS aside... it was an excellent idea for a storyline!! I even like the fact the Wash wouldn't shiv, and instead pulled an ultimate brushoff, but talking about his wife!!

Coarse he got lights put out in the process... But that's loyalty for you!!

LMAO!! What was that he kept saying in Serenity about being a leaf???? Especially when they were about to crash!!

[Mission]

And if you want to see a whole new side of Jewel Staite (Kaylee), check out Wonderfalls (a terrific series that was cut short due to network mismanagement. You can find it on Netflix.)

I own Wonderfalls...which character does she play? (I see the character name is Heidi Gotz, but I'm not entirely sure who that is.)

[Duchess]

The Evil Wife.

[Rev.Sam]

Agreed! Mrs. Reynolds was very..... naughty??!

All BS aside... it was an excellent idea for a storyline!! I even like the fact the Wash wouldn't shiv, and instead pulled an ultimate brushoff, but talking about his wife!!

Coarse he got lights put out in the process... But that's loyalty for you!!

LMAO!! What was that he kept saying in Serenity about being a leaf???? Especially when they were about to crash!!

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.

[Mission]

I was watching the extras and they said something about how the network thought the women were too strong and the men weren't strong enough. I thought this was a fascinating observation, if only because so many of the intelligent, independent women I know like this show. So I was thinking on it...

I came to the conclusion that it is actually quite balanced on the whole. The women are strong, but the men are as well. I think the network may have been wondering why the men weren't more dominant. Still, everyone does run pretty well along stereotypical male/female role lines...

The "leader" character pair is pretty well balanced, although I notice that the Mal seems to have more issues than one would normally expect in a typical action series. Being moody and disconsolate over the loss of the independents and his abandonment colors his character and his actions. This gives him a vulnerability as a character that I don't sense in his opposing leader character, Inara. She doesn't seem to have many issues and is remarkably comfortable with herself and her role, although she does have the natural caring vulnerability often attributed to women. She does seem kind of passive/aggressive at times, and she usually remains in the background in her leadership role. There is the whole denied relationship dynamic, but that's been just about standard fare for shows since the daze of Moonlighting and Remington Steele.

I'd say the "strong" character pair is pretty well balanced and runs along traditional male/female perceived roles. Jayne and Zoe are both strong-willed and strong physically. Zoe is loyal and pragmatic, traits often attributed to women and Jayne is self-serving and impulsive, traits often attributed to men. Zoe also has the whole professional woman strained relationship/desire for a baby thing going on. So these characters seem very much according to stereotype to me.

Then there is the "caring" character pair. Shepard Book and Kaley seems very well matched. Both are quite open and giving and each is very grounded. Kaley has the non-spiritual, earthy aspects and Book has the spiritual, ethereal aspects. Again, this goes along typical male/female stereotypical lines in my view.

The "intellectual" character pair, Simon and River are both very smart and damaged - Simon through loss of his career (which Freud would have fun explaining) and River through loss of control of her mental state. This makes River sort of hysterical...which is again a trait often assigned to women in Freudian times. Simon is playing strong and silent, both again being male traits. He is also clearly guarding the female half of the pair which is very traditional.

Then there's Wash. Wash is sort of the "comic" type IMO although he has no opposing female character. I would venture that this is supposed to appeal to the geek audience. (I like his shirts and dinosaurs.) He does tend to have male dominant moments with Zoe, but he is also sort of passive/aggressive at times. For the most part, he seems rather neutral in this analysis.

Of course, it all plays out well, so maybe the stereotypes are, like stereotypes often tend to be, based in enough reality to sell themselves.

[blackjohn]

Dude... you really would have enjoyed Bruce Hyde's Kirk>Spock>McCoy>Scotty character analysis.

[Mission]

Oddly, I have never been a Trek fan. But it's nice to know there is someone else out there with way too much time on their hands who thinks abstract thoughts of little or no possible real-world use.

[blackjohn]

Bruce Hyde played a minor character in two or three episodes of original Trek. He then went on to get a PhD in... I dunno, psych and theatre or something. I once saw him at a con, where he gave a lecture on "the success of Star Trek and its relationship to the balanced character traits of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty." Though you aren't a Trek fan, I think you would've enjoyed the lecture from a human character traits point of view.

I wonder if Wash is somehow opposite to River? Wash is a skilled pilot, technical and not prone to believing in outlandish things, and through his comic nature, is also skilled at dealing with people. River, on the other hand, while intelligent, has few if any skills (beyond those programmed into her) and practically zero people skills. She is, due to her background, an outlandish thing herself - a psi programmed death machine.