sword question -

[Black Dog]

Sword question mates - I see many great examples of fine period swords all around. One of the goals I have is to get into reinacting - in particular >> swordplay. I would think a blunted blade for safety would wanted for that. I have not seen anything specifically intended for that. Are the swords I see blunt to begin with? If anyone has words of wisdom and/or experience to share - please do so.

Willie the rumrunner

if it burns blue, drink it

[blackjohn]

The blades you'll find out there on the net are generally dull-edged. If you search around, you'll find links to blades designed for steel-on-steel contact. And as with most things, the more you spend the better it'll be. I'd suggest something with a basket hilt, and get a pair of heavy gloves too.

If you do a search under Plunder for swords, you should be able to find previous discussions of a similar nature.

[Fox]

I can't speak for US re-enactros, but swords made for the UK re-enactment market are generally blunt unless you specify you want a sharp blade. Perhaps more importantly the points are rounded - if you slash someone that's bad, if you stab someone that's fatal.

I own 18 (I think) swords at the moment and I have owned a couple of dozen others in the past. IMHO the finest re-enactment swords in the world, without any question whatsoever, are made by Armour Class. They're based in Scotland and their backlog is not inconsiderable (there's a reason for that) but they're well worth the postage and the wait.

[William Brand]

Buy it sharp.

One of the bast ways to understand the sword is grasped during test cutting. Not that you can't cut through an object with good form and follow through, but personally, I recommend a sharp one.

Or buy two. One with. One without.

[bluravn]

you might want to try Star fire swords , there swords are used at a lot at ren fests by the actors for sword play . none have sharp edges and are verry nice. i think there is a link for them on the NYRF sight just look up REC.COM (i think its a .com) it lists all of the REC faires and listings of most of the merchents w/links at the faires . i hope that helps a bit in your search.

Blu

ps there are also wooden swords that are heavy duty and ment for praticing/learning with . they should be on the sight too.

[Black Dog]

Thanke mates - tis great wisdom I see in all who offer. I do see for safety's sake the need for blunt blades - good to know of several sources. The need for a sharpened blade - to understand the real workings of blade use - something I had not really considered. Now I just need to find a local fencing school who does something other than modern sport fencing. Seems like most are 2 hours away - wish me luck mates.

Willie the rumrunner

[callenish gunner]

lad rather than a fencing school you should be looking for a theatre school that teaches stage combat they have experts who's job it is to teach you safe ways of making fights look as real as possible and techniques to keep you and your fight partner from too many trips to the er ....but alas accidents still happen so make sure you have good insurance

[Captain Jacob Badger]

I agrees wi' CG...on that one..fencin's fer 'sportsmen'...back an' fore in a straight line....(.'thats naught swordplay!!)......ifin ye wants 'stage' combat....go t' the right people...'tis an art fer sure.......bein' a 20 year 'live' swordsman (japan style... katana)...an' havin' done many 'combat shows' there's a diff..........ifin ye wants 'real' swordsmanship.....It'll take ye a while (an' many bruised/cut hands)...first ...find a mentor...then....start easy wi' a couple o' wooden swords... progress t' blunt steel (t' get used t' the weight)....then......after about ten years o' doin' that.......try 'live'.......ye'll never look back I tells ye......the risk is great.....but the skill is real.....

CG.....nice boots in yer pic sah!....where perchance did ye acquire such piratey footware?

[Lady Seahawke]

Also check if'n ye buy the blade through the internet that the description says blunt!

Cause I have gotten those that I thought would be blunt sharp and those I expected sharp blunt.

And remember even a blunt blade can cause damage if handled the wrong way.

that's my two cents. :)

[Black Dog]

As the flow of rum brings in the loose tongues of fighters we've learned that finding the right sword seems to be the easy part. As to finding the right mentor to train with - that is proving more difficult. Seems as though from Richmond it's around 2-3 hours to get to anyone who would offer the schooling I be searching fer. Shadow Players is Raleigh seem like a great bunch - but its a long haul. There seems to be a few crews around Hampton that may be able to help out an ol' salt - but again - tis 2 hours travel. Would any on the east coast know a well respected - what a minute - well respected pirate - what am I saying?

I am looking for a stage combat teacher close to Richmond va - and a winning lottery ticket - hey - why not ask?????

Willie the rumrunner

[PyratePhil]

Black Dog-

Although not exactly stage combat, you might want to check into your local SCA groups - they usually offer a lot of training in rapier, epee, foil, and espada y daga - it's a start, anyway.

[blackjohn]

I was going to suggest HACA/ARMA or whatever they are calling themselves these days, but it looks like the closest group is in VA Beach.

Contact them to see if they might know of someone in your area.

[Fox]

You're right Badger

Back in 97 I was in Holland celebrating the Peace of Ryswick. The captain of the Dutch Olympic fencing team came along and was naturally interested in our swords and sword play, so we let him have a go (well, you would wouldn't you?!). We royally whooped his ass simply by taking a step to the side and hitting in the arm or back - he just couldn't cope with the concept of his opponent not being directly in front of him.

[Hawkyns]

Black Dog-

Although not exactly stage combat, you might want to check into your local SCA groups - they usually offer a lot of training in rapier, epee, foil, and espada y daga - it's a start, anyway.

Aye, they do, BUT.......

They have a lot of rules, require a lot of armour/protection, and tend to teach the gentelmanly arts of the salle, not the street fight. When I'm teahing more combat oriented stuff to SCAdians, I generally have to start by breaking bad habits. It's about the same as breaking the bad habits of someone who learned collegiate styles.

The SCA stuff is training for competition, not combat. Better than nothing if that's all you have, but not the best.

(and before you Society folks jump on me, I have an OGR- Eastern White Scarf equivalent, so I'm moe than familiar with what's going on.)

Hawkyns

[blackjohn]

The SCA stuff is training for competition, not combat. Better than nothing if that's all you have, but not the best.

Which is why I've always been interest in ARMA... they seem to be taking the direction I would take, that is, study what we know they had, and then try doing it.

Anyone here a member???

Anyone here from the Baltimore Washington area want to start a group with me?!?!

[Hawkyns]

Yeah, I've looked at ARMA, too. Nothing nearby for me either.

What do you think of Clements' books and ideas? I've seen a lot of really ugly discussions when his name comes up. What I've seen looks practical and useable, though some of his sources and research looks a bit shaky.

On the whole, not a bad group, though. Wish they were a bit more widespread.

Hawkyns

[PyratePhil]

Aye, they do, BUT.......

They have a lot of rules, require a lot of armour/protection, and tend to teach the gentelmanly arts of the salle, not the street fight.  When I'm teahing more combat oriented stuff to SCAdians, I generally have to start by breaking bad habits.  It's about the same as breaking the bad habits of someone who learned collegiate styles.

The SCA stuff is training for competition, not combat.  Better than nothing if that's all you have, but not the best.

...

Oh, totally agree!

That's why I've never joined. Just last night, I attended an "informal" practice with members of my last Festival's cast, one of whom is the Marshall for the "area"...

They suited me up and showed me how to parry my opponent's sword with my free hand...

...straight-line attacks...the back is NOT a valid target...

...when I tried circular movements and hack-'n'-slash, they were kind of lost...

...won't even MENTION the low-line stop kicks and joint locks!

I found it extremely hard to un-do 35 years of training just to "fight like a gentleman"...and I really don't have an interest in competition as such.

But as you said, I just thought that THEIR training would fill the bill until something more...um...shall we say, "realistic" comes along.

[Christine]

Fight like a gentleman? Ugh, what fun is that?! The SCA looks down on pirates don't they? It sure seems that way.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye,

Many of the upper class (politically inclined) SCAdians frown on us folk....

I quit playin' their game a few years back...

Used to be quite good wi' the Epee... Last tyme I was "authorized" to fight in tournament, I used a double wide blade... the heaviest blade allowable...

Now, they have Schlagger blades, which I was using long before, outside of the SCA...

Too much 'red tape' any more....

I am an elizabethan style fencer... fighting in the round...

Was local champion for three years running, would have been longer if I hadn't gotten fed up with the bull.....

As for on topic...

Findas many copies of the original masters (like Saviolo and De Grassi, etc...). study them and work out the swordplay....

Works for me, and that's how I've taught others....

[PyratePhil]

Fight like a gentleman? Ugh, what fun is that?!  The SCA looks down on pirates don't they? It sure seems that way.

WARNING!!! OFF-TOPIC REPLY!!! WARNING!!!

From what little I've heard and seen, pirates aren't the most popular monkees in the tree. If you follow the hard-core rules, the cut-off date is 1600 - well before the Golden Age.

Also, SCAdians seem to be court-oriented - they fight for their King and their Queen, but always with honor and proper manners. Kind of a 180 for MY interpretation of pyrate fighting.

In our Fest, the Sheriff and Pyrate Queen (both SCAdians) had a swordfight. It was well-done, but it was so bleedin' PROPER. When my son and I got into it as two pie-rats, we spit, kicked, tripped, and distracted each other with wench sightings. I think that illustrates the different mind-sets.

[blackjohn]

What do you think of Clements' books and ideas? I've seen a lot of really ugly discussions when his name comes up. What I've seen looks practical and useable, though some of his sources and research looks a bit shaky.

I'm not sure if I'm qualified to say, owning none of his books. Having flipped through them, and being far from an expert on the subject, to me they look well researched.

I sometimes wonder if his detractors are more in opposition to the man, as opposed to his writings.

[Fox]

George Silver's Paradoxes of Defence is available online.

I love Silver, he told us 400 years ago that the Italians made rubbish soldiers.

[Rigger McKnotty]

If ye be lookin' to learn STAGE FIGHTING, fighting for the theater, movies, and such, with safety a priority, Then you be wantin' the SAFD, The Society of American Fight Directors. They offer classes in many diferent places, the big one being a two week course at UNLV. They certify thier fighters, directors, teachers, and this certification is valuable in the theater, and also in the REnn Faire circles.

I personally was cerified by the SAFD, in unarmed combat, with training towords other weapon styles.

But if your not looking for that kind of thing, then try fencing, yea there are rules, but it is non correographed combat against a real opponent, an

[Dorian Lasseter]

]

WARNING!!! OFF-TOPIC REPLY!!! WARNING!!!

From what little I've heard and seen, pirates aren't the most popular monkees in the tree. If you follow the hard-core rules, the cut-off date is 1600 - well before the Golden Age.

So Phil, ye sayin' pirates didn't exist before 1600?

Many of us here play GAOP... some of us also do pre GAOP...

Like Hawkyns, among others...

And as fer rules.... I sees 'em as more like... guidelines...

[blackjohn]

I believe I see what Phil is driving at, that the intent of the SCA doesn't really mesh well with the "pirate ideal" as espoused by those sailing in the GAoP, and that one way of keeping out said GAoP pirates is to put a "tech level" cap on their hobby. Hence the year 1600 cut-off date.

Personally, I have no problem with that. To each his own.

Also, as Mod here, I have no problem with letting this thread continue. It falls under the category of "shopping around for training."