Archaeologists Dispute Claim About Undersea Wreck

[blackjohn]

Article here.

[MadMike]

Interesting. The QAR website features some artifacts and a pic of a ship's bell-

http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/qar/artifact...s/shipparts.htm

Johnson writes in "Pirates" that the vessel was a "large French Guineaman" and that -

"Teach began now to think of breaking up the company and securing the money and the best of the effects for himself and some others of his companions he had most friendship for, and to cheat the rest.

Accordingly in pretence of running into Topsail Inlet to clean, he grounded his ship, then, as if it had been done undesignedly and by accident, he ordered Hands sloops to come to his assistance and get him off again, which he endeavoring to do, ran the sloop on shore near the other, and so were both lost."

Yours, Mike

[Silver Steele]

Unfortunately, the argument whether or not the wreck found was Blackbeard's has been going on here on the coast of NC since the day it was found.

[capnwilliam]

I enjoyed viewing these artifacts last summer, when Mate Jan and I visited the North Carolina Maritime Museum in Beaufort.

I can't offer any authoritative opinion as to whether it was the Queen Anne's Revenge or not. Do these debunkers have any evidence of their own, or are they merely chiding the Museum for being too quick to preclude alternate theories about the vessel?

Capt. William

[corsair2k3]

Greetings,

I'm not going to comment on this specific case, but more to general considerations.

In my experience, underwater archaeologists are generally extremely reluctant to identify a wrecksite unless an artifact with the vessel's name is recovered, or something with the name of one of her crew

(and sometimes not then).

The Corsair

[Captain Jim-sib]

The authors' report was based upon older data...and more material has come up since the earlier paper. Yet, though the vessel is of the proper time period, the site will remain in question until something with BB's name comes up.

[Jonathan Hawks]

Only problem I aves wit it all, is non e'er get their facts checked out as shood be efer bellowin bout a fynd. I be the first ta hail a new discovery, but make damn sure it be real and have backbone behind it.

[JoshuaRed]

I appreciate the need for thorough investigation and backing up claims with evidence. BUT...to me, this logically MUST be the QAR. There simply was no other ship on the eastern seaboard from this time that was as heavily armed as this wreck they've found. If there was, it would have been noteworthy and mentioned in period records, just as the power of the QAR was.

[Nelson Cooke]

The fine recent book Shadow Divers by Kurson, about wreck divers who found a U-Boat off the coast of New Jersey and spent nearly a decades worth of dives trying to identify it, makes the definitive statement on how tricky identifying a wreck can be. It makes brain surgery seem like something you can figure out with a couple hours on Google.

PiratesOfPensacola.com

[lady snow]

i'm with you on that one, nelson. i've started reading that book and you are so right. they had to bring up some identifying objects. and, or course, we know that there were no german u-boats off the coast of nj in wwll, or any other war, right?

sure we believe that. they also proved how dangerous deep diving is being they lost some of the dive team.

[Capt. Morgan]

That bell is interesting... no other info on it, I'm guessing? If archaeologists could determine the bell's origin, it would go a long way in establishing the identity of the wreck... but, I'm stating the obvious and only thinking out loud...

[blackjohn]

Here's something new on the subject.

[corsair2k3]

Greetings,

I'm by no means an ordnance expert, but the weight markings on the Whydah guns are along the breadth of the gun and are separated by either dashes or spaces.

OTOH I can't ever recall seeing a dated gun that did not have the maker's name/mark.

Hawkyns, Foxe, what say ye?

The Corsair

[Fox]

Both sides seem to make a good argument. IIRC some of the guns recovered from the Vasa in the 60s were dated and engraved with Royal signs, but bore no maker's marks. That's a century earlier of course, but worth mentioning. I'm sure there are other examples too, but on the whole I agree with Corsair that it's more common to find dates associated with maker's marks. I remember seeing something about this gun before though and am I right in thinking that the end of one of the trunnions (where marks are sometimes found) is missing or damaged or something like that? Or was that a different gun?

With regard to the other artefacts, I'm pretty out of touch with the excavation, but the last I remember was that stuff had been found which could date the wreck to the QAR period, but doesn't necessarily. I don't know what's been found or identified since though so I couldn't comment.

[lady snow]

this is all so interesting! i can't wait til they can give a definite id tot he wreck! :)

[William Brand]

Here's something new on the subject.

Fascinating stuff there. Aye. I enjoyed the lashing comment about cannon ignorance. I too would have thought that was a date instead of a weight.

I'm showing my ignorance today.

[Captain Jim-sib]

There has been research in the ballast stones recovered from this wreck. The report was published in "Southeast Geology" several years ago and is very interesting. It details the geo-chemistry study of several stone samples. Rocks, themselves, do have a specific chemical/mineral-percentage fingerprint. Based upon this study several years ago, the findings were "inconclusive". The basalts come from the West Indies. There is one granite sample with a high concentration of the red mineral orthoclase that is unique in their recovered stone collection. I recall reading about that sample, though cannot recall the exact origin...except that it was on the trade routes commonly used then. There is still much work to do on these stones, & David Moore of the museum pulled out many bucket fulls when I answered his "what do you do" question by saying I be a geologist w/ UNC-C. There is a funding problem, of course, with future investigation of these stones. Professionally, they may hold a significate key. The history of the Concorde, pre-QAR, has her doing time in the Pacific. The key would be finding a rock with a Pacific origin. That may be difficult since ballast stones were often unloaded when filling the hull with cargo. Also, if such stones exist...they would probably be near the base of the hull and may have not been recovered yet. As one of my students inquired, "how could you tell the difference between a Pacific basalt from an Atlantic basalt ?" In hand samples...they look the same. It is from that costly, crush & grind & stick into the machine method that can distinquish them.

[JoshuaRed]

I find these ship forensics enthralling. I sincerely hope they can prove it's the QAR, but even if it's a different ship it's no less a major find.

I just hope that can at least prove it's only 1 wreck, and not a composite of wrecks on top of wrecks which happens all too often, compounding the difficulty.

[jessie k.]

*sigh* This is why one can never begin studying an archaeological site with any strong preconceived notions about it's identity unless you've got some danged good evidence. If you start out thinking that it's the QAR, then you will try to make any evidence you find fit that notion, rather than be objective about it and say it could be any of a number of ships. Not to mention the many disapointed people if it's not what they've made us think it is!

[blackjohn]

On the flipside, if you say it's the QAR, you probably get more funding to do research than if you say you've found an unknown wreck from the early 1700s. :)

[Captain Jim-sib]

Regardless if the wreck is the QAR or not, the dramatic surge in the fascination w/ Blackbeard and Pirates since this particular wreck was discovered cannot be overlooked. The amount of literature and merchandize produced for all age groups on BB/QAR reflects the thirst for historical information on this subject. From my ships-in-bottles sideline, anything relating to Blackbeard is sold first at shows, then privateers, ...and the most requested items from the galleries I provide is the QAR & Adventure (requested more than Confederate vessels & the Hunley model that I put a "re-elect Strom Thurmond" sticker on the rudder ).

Joshua Red's April 8th post is noteworthy, though the professional community wants the smoking gun, rather blunderbuss, evidence... which may be waiting in the sands.

[Red Maria]

I'm awaiting to hear from a friend of mine who is anarchaeologist on the QAR project about a symposium that was held on the subject last Friday. As he puts it "A lot of politics and agendas in play there. " This isn't just about the QAR friends. When I hear from him I'll pass it on.

[JoshuaRed]

In other words, perhaps North Carolina's economy "really really needs" this to be the QAR even if it's not?

[Red Maria]

No

[JoshuaRed]

Well then I stand corrected!