Dissecting GAoP Costume #3: British Seamen 1730s

[Fox]

I rather enjoyed the Dissecting threads so I hope nobody minds me starting another. I though rather than look at one picutre specifically it might be good to look at a group of pictures with a common theme for comparison. Since I have a handful to hand I thought British Seamen of the 1730s might be a good start.

Here's two to start us off, I'll add more in as we go on.

The British Sailor's Loyal Toast, 1738.

Detail from a sketch of Plymouth Harbour, 1735.

[dasNdanger]

Instead of commenting on the style of dress this time, I'm more intrigued by the etiquette displayed. I find it interesting that the first picture shows the men in an interior room, relaxing, but still wearing hats and coats. In most movies dealing with this era, hats come off immediately when a man entered the room, and sometimes coats too if they were going to stay a while. So, could Hollywood be tapping into later customs that were really not so common in the early 18th century?? I don't think this is a case of 'artistic license' because if it was customary not to wear hats indoors, then they wouldn't have been depicted doing so.

Also, the drinking vessels. I would have thought clunky pewter mugs, but it seems they are all drinking from a type of goblet (pewter?).

das

[MadMike]

Looks like they are toasting from a punch bowl. Dampier writes-

"I have seen about 20 sail at a time in this Road come to lade Salt, and these Ships coming from some of the Caribbe Islands, are already well stored with Rum, Sugar and Lime-juice to make Punch, to hearten their Men when they are at work, getting and bringing aboard the Salt, and they commonly provide the more, in hopes to meet with Privateers, who resort hither in the aforesaid Months, purposely to keep a Christmas, as they call it; being sure to meet with Liquor enough to be merry with,

and are very liberal to those that treat them."

Yours, &c.

Mike

[Fox]

I'm happy to discuss whatever you like about the pictures

I think you'll find that "in company" the wearing of hats and coats was pretty standard (sorry Das) probably until the 19th century. It's like we were discussing about jackets - you might walk around your home in a shirt and bare head, just like you might walk around your home now in your underwear, but you wouldn't go down the pub like that! A man might take his shirt off nowadays to dig the garden or tarmac a road, but he wouldn't "go out" without putting a shirt on.

With regards to the drinking vessels; pint tankards for beer or cider, but goblets (possibly pewter, possibly glass) for wine and punch etc.

Given the way this seems to be going (hats, coats and punchbowls...) I think perhaps the next picture to throw in is this interior scene of Captain the Viscount Boyne's cabin, painted in 1731 by Bartolomeo Nazari.

[dasNdanger]

I think you'll find that "in company" the wearing of hats and coats was pretty standard (sorry Das) probably until the 19th century.

No need to apologize...I just find it interesting that in many (not all) films dealing with this era, they show men whipping off their hats the moment they go indoors. So the pictures you posted just demonstrate how Hollywood alters 'history', including the customs of the day.

Could the goblets be silver? Pewter or glass...but glass just seems so dangerous in the hands of a bunch of drunken sailors. Yeah, when I posted I didn't give consideration to what was in that bowl...tankards for beer and cider, goblets for the blood of the vine - doh! - *hits head* - I knew that, I SWEAR! No!!! Wait! The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon! The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

oh. sorry. broke out in a bit o' Danny Kaye jocularity there for a sec...

Oooooo!! I like this second picture SO much better. It's so hard to distiguish details in those black and white illustrations...

I see a KITTY!!! at least, I THINK it's a kitty...

Are they mules he's wearing? Slippers? And the predominant color here seems to be brown. And do I see a...EEP!...a sash???? Geez, next thing ya know, you'll be showing us pictures of sailors wearing EARRINGS!!

das

[Fox]

I meant sorry 'cos I know how much you hate jackets

The goblets coul be silver, but I think if I were an ale-house keeper I'd rather trust a bunch of seamen with my glass-ware than my silver-ware...

Yes, it's a kitty. I think they are slippers that Boyne is wearing, his whole outfit speaks of informality and relaxation, hence, no hats on three of the officers - the figures at the back are of a junior rank I think and are thus not so inclined to be that informal. The sashes I think are being worn by officers (I think the figure on the front-left is probably an officer like a master or something similar), so that's not so surprising.

In my picture collection I now have 54 pictures showing 100 seamen from 1650-1750, if you include the earlier and later period pictures too (15th century-1820) there are 94 pictures showing 189 seamen. You know what? Not a single earring in evidence. I probably have as many more pictures waiting to be put online, and not one of them has an earring either. I faithfully promise that as soon as I find a single picture of a seaman in an earring dating from 1680-1740 I will post it immediately.

[dasNdanger]

I meant sorry 'cos I know how much you hate jackets

Doh! Sorry...must be this wicked head cold cloudin' me grey cells...either that, or watching The Kumars at #42 while trying to make sensible replies...

What sort of cup is the one gentleman (the 'officer', a.k.a. Sashman) holding? Looks like a pewter drinking horn... And he appears to be wearing a sweater under his...waistcoat/doublet (??). It's long, you can see the hem of it underneath.

Looking forward to more!

das

[Patrick Hand]

I like the neck scarves (bandanna....) that two of them are wearing. Keeps drafts off your neck sence the coats don' have collers....

[Fox]

Looks like a pewter (or silver) goblet with a handle to me.

I think what he's wearing is a ticking waistcoat from the official slops - it's the same as they guy's in the brown hat in the background - underneath a sleeveless waistcoat.

[dasNdanger]

Looks like a pewter (or silver) goblet with a handle to me.

Could be...I just can't seem to distinguish a stem and foot. It looks rounded on the bottom...but that might just be me peepers playing tricks on me.

I think what he's wearing is a ticking waistcoat from the official slops - it's the same as they guy's in the brown hat in the background - underneath a sleeveless waistcoat.

*looks again*

Hmmm...perhaps you're right, though I think they are wearing two different things. I can't see buttons on the one in the foreground, which leads me to believe it might be a sweater. But I'm not all that familiar with waistcoat variations (besides the later, c. 1800 type). It just looks bulky (in a fluffy kinda way) to me...the way the hem looks, and the sleeves...something like the one here: http://www.saint-james.com/chandail.asp (the one shown could be an exhibit piece, though I can't tell for sure...)

das

[Fox]

You might be right, but I'm pretty sure that it's a waistcoat. It's difficult to tell with the picture this size but the material is definitely the same as that of the waistcoat at the back. I think the reason no buttons are visible is simply the way he's standing and the way the outer garment is falling.