18th Century Death's Head in Military Patch

[JoshuaRed]

Anyone here have an idea what THIS PATCH would have been used for? It's fascinating. From the Natl Maritime Musuem, UK. I'm not suggesting this is pirate related...rather I think it has something to do with death in general....not sure! Thoughts?

[Fox]

Very nice I haven't the foggiest what it might be for, my best guess would be perhaps a badge of mourning? Have you emailed the NMM to ask if they know?

I agree that it's probably not a free gift for joining the Official Blackbeard Fan Club of 1718. I don't see why it should be pirate related, but nonetheless it does give us a good example of an authentic 18th century design for skull and crossed bones.

[Hawkyns]

Without more info, it's hard to say. First thought off the top of my head is that it may have something to do with Tarleton's Dragoons. They used a death's head badge and their uniform was green. Eventually they became part of the 17th and they were melded with the 21st. The 17/21 still use that badge. Just a guess, though.

Hawkyns

[MadMike]

Could be an early cap badge for the 17th Light Dragoons, created in 1759...

Other than Johnson's narrative with pictures of pirate flags, perhaps some British or American broadsides and tombstones can provide period style death's heads.

Yours, &c.

Mike

[John Maddox Roberts]

The shape looks right for a grenadier's hat.

[Hawkyns]

but nonetheless it does give us a good example of an authentic 18th century design for skull and crossed bones.

One thing that I have noticed about the earlier patterns, which were in fairly common use for the period, is that they are mostly portrayed without the lower jaw. That goes for both military badges and gravestones.

Hawkyns

[JoshuaRed]

Thanks for the info guys - sounds good! Colonial American tombstone art was much more simplistic than this death's head. The level of detail on this badge really surprised me - I guess it makes sense that it would be for an elite military unit.

[John Maddox Roberts]

The detail is striking. Notice that those aren't just generic bones. They're thighbones. And you can see the openings at the backs of the eye sockets.

[Cascabel]

Aye, I also suspect it has something to do with an elite military unit. The skull and bones symbol has always been a popular motif in military units, the most recent that comes to mind is the SS organization of the Nazi era. I have also seen variations of the symbol on regalia of World War I units from various European countries, usually on headgear. I think I remember a picture of a Serbian or Russian general with a HUGE skull and bones on his fur hat in one of my books.

>>>> Cascabel

[dasNdanger]

Here's a site with some interesting information - perhaps it's related:

http://www.annapolis.org/aia/green%20print%20shop.htm

Could this badge be worn in a similar form of protest?

The Dragoons badge is slightly different: http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/army...ragoons1759.htm

Interesting bit I found on the standing orders for the Royal Marines c.1755 - 1765: "1764 (Plymouth) Officers ordered to have "Uniform Frocks lapelled with white cloth with a Death's Head button."

No picture of such a button, but this indicates that the death's head was used by many different divisions, not all of which are commonly known. Also, it's interesting that this is a marine's button...perhaps they had other badges (though the green fabric is more indicative to the Dragoons)...

das

[corsair2k3]

Greetings,

The Prussian Zietenhussars used a death's head badge in the 18th century. The design was passed down through the years as the unit evolved until it ended up being the badge of the SS "Totenkopf" Division.

Also--haven't got the reference ready to hand, but a unit during the English Civil War had the skull and bones as a banner. Am thinking it could well have used the device as a badge as well.

Another thing that springs to mind is that it might be 18th century masonic regalia.

Very nice piece--which leads me to think that it might not be military

The Corsair

[dasNdanger]

I've found additional information on a death's head being a symbol of mourning as early as the 15th century, worn as a brooch or, specific to the 18th century, as a ring.

But perhaps this information may shed additional light on it's origin: "Finally, before leaving the subject of what constitutes "Long Range" in the days of the round ball, we will look at the regulations of The Duke of Cumberland’s Sharp Shooters taken from HELPS AND HINTS HOW TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY, written in 1835 by Baron de Berenger. There were four classifications for the qualified shot. To achieve the Fourth Class, 50 yards, on a 30 inch target, five hits out of six shots taken off-hand carried the right to wear a black silk cockade. For the Third Class, as the Fourth, but at 100 yards, and a green centre for the cockade. The Second Class fired at 150 yards with three shots off-hand and three from a rest for an all green cockade. To attain the First Class, and still on the same thirty inch target, six shots were taken at 200 yards, but all from a rest. The all green cockade now sports a bronze skull and crossbones badge and the holders of this honour continued their shooting at ranges of up to three hundred yards."

Though dealing with a later date and a different metal, perhaps this is what that badge symbolizes. Since this is a Maritime museum, I tend to feel that it must have something to do with naval service of some kind. Could this badge been worn by a marine sharpshooter, perhaps, similar to the one later used in the 19th century as described above?

das

[Fox]

Hey Das, where were you reading the standing orders for marines (who weren't "Royal" until 1802 FWIW)?

Depending on how early the practice of Marine officers wearing a death's head badge goes back that might be an answer. Edward Foxe's 3rd Marines raised in 1702 wore green facings, as did the 6th Marine regiment raised in 1739 as well as Spottiswoode's Marines raised in the colonies in 1739. From 1755 the Marines all had white facings, but if the skull and cross-bones buttons went back earlier then it could be a Marine badge.

'Course, I'm sure the NMM could tell us exactly what it was. Since they have it classified as jewellery rather than uniform that throws some doubt on the military possibilities.

[dasNdanger]

The site I got that from is here:

http://www.militaryheritage.com/marines.htm ...but it doesn't go back further than 1755. Perhaps they need to be informed about the 'royal' thing...

If it is 'jewelry', then why is it attached to the cloth?? Most jewelry is detachable, but this seems to be fixed, thus suggesting it's more significant than simple ornamentation.

Of course, I guess it could be a Masonic symbol (is the 'triangle' patch symbolic of the pyramid?), or a badge of mourning. Both would explain a lack of further identification with it, such as the 'Or Glory' banner attached to the Dragoons'/Lancers' death's head badge.

Now I'm wishing there was a book on the origin and history of the death's head symbol. Most books that I've seen only deal with the SS, which isn't exactly what I'm looking for...

das

[Fox]

Jewellery as in personal adornment as opposed to military uniform item. Many items worn for personal ornamentation were sewn onto garments prior to the invention of safety pins and badge pins.

Has anyone yet emailed the NMM about this?