Weapons Rules

[Hawkyns]

Ahoy All!

Will be going to the festival for the first time with me lady. Are there rules about weapons once we get there? Can we really wander about Key West with swords, daggers, and firearms? Are there any no-go areas? How about other establishments? Can we go in to Margaritaville fully armed?

I've seen references to black powder, also. Are there safety regs and an armourer to check you out? For blade combat, do you use blunts or sharps, and is there an overall coordinating body that handles rules so that no-one actually gets spitted?

Sorry if this all sounds a bit paranoid, but I've been a re-enactment safety officer for too many years. I like to know what I'm getting into.

Fair winds!!

Hawkyns

[Animal]

Good day to you Hawkins!!!! That is a good question. I know that in most pbus firearms are not allowed as well as blades of any kind in plain view. I also think that this needs to be addressed before we get there so we know what the rules are in advance.

Animal

[Cascabel]

The way it works at Pirates in Paradise is this. I am usually one of the safety officers, as well as being part of the cast, so this is the correct nformation.

There is generally a cast call for the participants in the mornings, with weapon inspections and a general daily planning meeting. If you are new to the event, it would be in your best interest to attend. Only those that are approved will be allowed to fire weapons, and then GENERALLY only aboard the ships. Safety officers must be present for all firing.

As far as carrying them with you, there is no problem with both swords and pistols, but I HIGHLY advise that you leave them in your belt and don't go pulling them out and waving them about. Peace tying of both swords and pistols is highly advisable, as you may be in crowded bars full of drunks who may think it is O.K. to pull out your weapon just to "see" it.

Sometimes firing is allowed in the streets with prior approval.

As far as sword fighting goes. ABSOLUTELY NONE if you are not part of an officially participating group, and only in designated fight circles. It's too easy for a tourist to wander into harm's way unknowingly.

If you have any questions while you are there, seek me out. I'm usually easy to find. Or feel free to e-mail me any time.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Animal]

than you Casabel for the information. I'm glad to see that there is a safety crewe to keep thinks in line. It might be a good idea to have some of the basic rules posted on the Pirates in Paradise web site. That way everyone has a general idea what is allowed and not.

thanks again,

Animal

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

'Ello all!

Long time, no smell--er, see.

Regarding the pistols/cutlasses and other such weaponry, I called my local airport to check the rules and regulations regarding the carrying of weaponry aboard an aircraft. I figured things had drastically changed since September 11, 2001...for good reasons.

When I spoke to the person "in charge," she said that as long as the weapons were carried UNDERNEATH the plane in standard cargo in a hard-sided case (briefcase, trunk) with a secure lock, there would be no problem with carrying them on the plane. Of course, there should be absolutely no firearms/blades inside the seating area in the overhead compartments. Of course, that was for my airport. Others may be different. Call and check before you pack.

Just FYI for all you pirates traveling by plane to the PIP Festival.

Capt. WE Roberts

[hurricane]

'Tis a fine discussion here on piratical weapons and how to ship them to PIP. We plan on shipping them ahead of time in a lock box to the hotel along with our other pirate treasures that are an absolute pain to travel with (instruments and such). To us it's worth the cost not to have to worry about them and having to lug them around. This is particularly true if you be flying directly into Key West on one of the smaller commuter planes. Even during non-tourist time, if the back of the plane be full your stuff gets left behind and has to wait for another flight. Had that happen there even on vacation with no piratical goods in tow.

See you all soon in the Keys!

[Cascabel]

Keep in mind that there are slight differences in interpretation of the regulations by different airlines. Call first to be sure to be in compliance

Some require that the weapon be in it's own SEPARATE lockable container. An inexpensive padded attache case will suffice for a couple of pistols, as long as it is lockable. By airline standards, the flimsy locks already on luggage seems to be sufficient. That container can be placed INSIDE of your suitcase usually. Having it inside of another container prevents dishonest baggage handlers from being tempted by an obvious gun case.

Other than those differences in interpretation, weapons are not a problem to travel with. Also bear in mind that non-functional "replicas" fall under the same rules as the real thing so that airline personel do not have to make a decision on what is real and what is not.

Under absolutely NO circumstances are you legal to carry gunpowder in any quantity or in any fashion on a commercial aircraft. They will arrest you on the spot. Loaded ammunition in the form of regular modern cartridges is O.K., but that does not apply to our needs. As far as I know, black powder is not available anywhere in Key West. There is simply not enough demand for it for any sporting goods store to stock it. If you are flying into Miami, and planning to rent a car and drive out to Key West, e-mail me, and I'll give you a location where you can get your supply before heading out to the Keys. As far as having left over powder goes, when you are ready to leave, I will likely be able to buy your leftover supply, or someone else will.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Wm. Bonney]

They will also put a tag on the gun case,but under NO circumstances are they to put it on the outside of the bag.

That'd be like putting a "Steal Me" tag on it

[Lucky Penny Hawkings]

Some require that the weapon be in it's own SEPARATE lockable container. An inexpensive padded attache case will suffice for a couple of pistols, as long as it is lockable. By airline standards, the flimsy locks already on luggage seems to be sufficient. That container can be placed INSIDE of your suitcase usually. Having it inside of another container prevents dishonest baggage handlers from being tempted by an obvious gun case.

Now I could be wrong on this, but the last few times I have been in an airport, I've been told that my checked luggage had to go in unlocked. It could just be an airport-to-airport thing, or a situation with the security at the time, as I prefer my luggage to be locked down (as I have had friends who have had perfectly legitimate items stolen from their belongings).

It's very likely that no one will be foolish enough to pull a whole attache out of someone's luggage, but I'll be honest I worry now when I put anything of value on a plane anymore.

[the Royaliste]

Then I'm guessin' that two carronades, dressed as me 'toddlers' 'll never make it on the plane.......

[Cascabel]

Some require that the weapon be in it's own SEPARATE lockable container.  An inexpensive padded attache case will suffice for a couple of pistols, as long as it is lockable.  By airline standards, the flimsy locks already on luggage seems to be sufficient.    That container can be placed INSIDE of your suitcase usually. Having it inside of another container prevents dishonest baggage handlers from being tempted by an obvious gun case.

Now I could be wrong on this, but the last few times I have been in an airport, I've been told that my checked luggage had to go in unlocked. It could just be an airport-to-airport thing, or a situation with the security at the time, as I prefer my luggage to be locked down (as I have had friends who have had perfectly legitimate items stolen from their belongings).

It's very likely that no one will be foolish enough to pull a whole attache out of someone's luggage, but I'll be honest I worry now when I put anything of value on a plane anymore.

Again, differences in interpretation of the regulations by different airlines.

You would be foolish to just leave your luggage unlocked. One of the main reasons for locking it, (considering that luggage locks would really only SLIGHTLY inconvenience a thief), is locking it prevents accidental opening if something snags one of the latches during handling.

They sometimes require it to be PRESENTED to them unlocked for convenience of easily opening for inspection, or at any rate, they don't like the excuse of not having the key. However, you should be allowed to lock it after they look inside.

I advise having the key handy and opening it for them, but INSIST on being allowed to re-lock it. This is a reasonable request, and if you have a problem, insist on speaking to a supervisor. A lot of newer employees are not as familiar with the regulations as they should be.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Cascabel]

Then I'm guessin' that two carronades, dressed as me 'toddlers' 'll never make it on the plane.......

'Fraid not, Royaliste, me lad. They would take one look at ye, and know that they were actually yer beloved pets dressed as children, and put them in the baggage bin !

>>>>> Cascabel

[Jamaica Rose]

I have traveled twice now to Pirates in Paradise since 911 (the last time was Nov. 02). The rules for traveling with real flintlocks seems to be the same as before 911. I've been traveling on Delta Airlines (thanks Cascabel) -- so this is my experience with this airlines.

We put the flintlocks (and all other pointy, possibly questionable hardware) in a big wooden box I have. It is locked. When we get to the ticket counter we tell the clerk that we have flintlock weapons in the box. We tell them there is a bunch of other hardware in there too, but they never seem to be concerned about anything but the flintlocks. She/he usually calls over some higher authority. When the other person gets there, we open the box and show him/her. They have us fill out an orange tag that is affixed to the weapon INSIDE the box. They said the tag is not to be outside the box to call attention to it. Then we lock the box again. And they take it away.

No problems, no fuss, no big deal so far.

Of course, things might be different on other airlines, or rules might change at any time. So call ahead and find out. Or do as Hurricane suggests, and ship it separately.

Blackheartedly yrs,

--Jamaica Rose

"Bomb Voyage!"

LXG

[Hawkyns]

Those are the standard FAA rules. Every airline has the right to go more severely. I suggest you check your airline website, go into baggage rules, check out firearms, then PRINT IT AND TAKE IT WITH YOU!! Counter agents have probably never seen a cutlass or blunderbuss before and won't know what to do. You might get lucky, like I was last time I flew and get TSA agents who spent 10 minutes and held up the line while they admired the weapons. You are just as likely to get the clueless one who hates guns.

Do Not Fly With Black Powder. Make sure powder horns have been drained and cartridge boxes are clear. Strip out your boxes and shake them and maybe vacuum them before you fly. Depending on the method used at your local airport, sniffers can pick up the nitrates in BP and register them as explosives.

Make sure you have all appropriate documents (hotel res, brochures, ship reservations, etc.) in your carry on and be prepared to answer questions. Don't talk like a pirate.

If this sounds a bit paranoid it is. In the current security attitude, there are too many people who are wound a bit tight and will automatically assume the worst. Chances are you won't meet any of them. There are mostly a lot of well trained, sincere people who have just never run into people like us. Play their game and you'll be fine.

Steve Barratt

Corporate Travel Agent

known to you lot as

Hawkyns

[El Pirata]

Some require that the weapon be in it's own SEPARATE lockable container.  An inexpensive padded attache case will suffice for a couple of pistols, as long as it is lockable.  By airline standards, the flimsy locks already on luggage seems to be sufficient.    That container can be placed INSIDE of your suitcase usually. Having it inside of another container prevents dishonest baggage handlers from being tempted by an obvious gun case.

Now I could be wrong on this, but the last few times I have been in an airport, I've been told that my checked luggage had to go in unlocked. It could just be an airport-to-airport thing, or a situation with the security at the time, as I prefer my luggage to be locked down (as I have had friends who have had perfectly legitimate items stolen from their belongings).

It's very likely that no one will be foolish enough to pull a whole attache out of someone's luggage, but I'll be honest I worry now when I put anything of value on a plane anymore.

The checked bag rule depends on the airline. I traveled from the west coast back in June and had to have my bag unlocked and they were searched without me present. I traveled to Central America and my bags were searched in front of me as well as for the return trip.

[Paisley]

does anyone know the rules for prop/non-firing pistols and swords?

(how to be taken on airplane and if allowed at gasparilla?)

[Cascabel]

The rules for non-firing replicas are the same as for a live weapon. The counter personnel seem unable to tell the difference, and while waiting in line is not the time to try educating them. As for swords, they can ride in your baggage without a problem, as long as the baggage goes in the baggage compartment (not carry-on).

>>>>> Cascabel

[Iron Bess]

does anyone know the rules for prop/non-firing pistols and swords?

(how to be taken on airplane and if allowed at gasparilla?)

I canna help ya with the rules of gasparilla... but I can with plane travel.

I've had to fly many times with my weapons and I've had no grief whatsoever. I put all my lovely, pointy things in a locking golf club transport. They are not soft like the bags but hard plastic (and some are made of metal) THey go into the cargo hols and I've never had so much as a wisp of damage.

Now, I did travel a good deal at one time so I had invested in a good one... but I've seen some listed at a very reasonable cost.

Hope this is of some help lass.

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

This system works well for me. Cascabel is right, you have to treat your non-firing replicas the same as you would a functional firing weapon. If it gets picked up on the CTX scanner they are required to call the police, real or not and you will miss your flight, even if you don't get arrested.

Remember, a repro looks just like a gun to a startled security guy

2 weeks before flying, call the airline, explain that you are a reenactor and ask them what the current proceedure is for flying with firearms. It can change almost day to day. Make sure which counter you are supposed to approach

Have business cards from your reenactment group made

Blackpowder and musket balls (bullets etc) must be packed in separate cases

A few days before flying, go to the appointed airline counter with the suitcase you will be using. Present your business card, tell them that you'll be flying in a few days and that you'd like them to inspect the empty suitcase to make sure it meets with their approval for flying with firearms. At that time, find out if they want it locked, unlocked, tie-wrapped or secured with a removable lock.

The day of the flight give yourself lots of time. Go to the counter again, present your business card and let the attendent know that you have the firearms packed in your suitcase. Ask the attendent if she'd like you to open it, don't just do it. They will have you open it, may ask questions about the weapons, inspect them etc.

You should be familiar with how a flintlock works, even if you only have a non-firing repro. They are usually unfamiliar with the old technology and may ask you to explain how it works even if it isn't real, so that they understand that what they are looking at is non-functional.

Use standard firearm safety handling proceedures even if yours is a non-firing replica. Don't ever pick it up with your finger on the trigger or point it at someone when you pass it.

Treat it as if it were live so that you don't startle anyone. Remember the people in the crowd behind you can't hear the conversation and in this post-911 world, you have to be very careful not to frighten people.

If you have reenactment clothing that you've worn around blackpowder, let them know. You probably have residue on the clothes and it will show up when the suitcases are wiped down. They need to be tagged to clear security.

Once your gear has all been cleared, be certain that the attendant calls ahead to the CTX scanner to advise them that your gear is coming. If they don't remember to do this, even though you've been cleared, the CTX people can be required to call the police.

Arriving at your destination, you'll likely pick up your gear with the normal luggage. Take a few minutes to check with the attendants at your departure point and find out where they want you to check in your firearms.

Don't be angry if your locks are broken off. Even with all the possible precautions you've taken, sometimes from department to department there is miscommunication about how cases containing cleared firearms should be marked. Just take it as it comes, be friendly, and be grateful you're allowed to fly with them at all in this day and age!!

[the Royaliste]

.."Hmmm, ..Excuse me, mr. baggage man, do you have a lockable box

..........'THIS BIG?'.......................

...*Grins*.....

[redhand]

Uhhh, I would suggest NOT trying to board a plane

with ANY blackpowder, as it's officially regarded

as an explosive!!

They frown on that at the airport

Cheers

Redhand

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

Actually they DO allow you to fly with black powder, but not as carry-on. It has to go through security as mentioned above and in a separate piece of baggage from the firearm itself. You've probably flown on plenty of flights with gunpowder and firearms in the cargo hold. It's perfectly legal. You just have to make sure you follow the specific airline's procedures. But I don't know anything about flying outside of the US or flying from outside of the US into the US with firearms and/or powder

[the Royaliste]

If flyin' wif' gunpowder worries you, just remember, every time I and other reenactors order 50 pounds or so, it comes to us by airfreight!

[Paisley]

just booked my flights to florida,

the us air rep said my non-firing weapon does not have to be in a locked container, but has to be in checked luggage. same goes with a sword. i just need to notify the counter when i check-in of what i have.

what do you guys think of this?

[Hawkyns]

Actually they DO allow you to fly with black powder, but not as carry-on. It has to go through security as mentioned above and in a separate piece of baggage from the firearm itself. You've probably flown on plenty of flights with gunpowder and firearms in the cargo hold. It's perfectly legal. You just have to make sure you follow the specific airline's procedures. But I don't know anything about flying outside of the US or flying from outside of the US into the US with firearms and/or powder

Uh, sorry, not correct. Transportation Safety Administration rules say no. Here's the link, it's a PDF, scroll down to prohibited items.

http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/P..._12_18_2003.pdf

Hawkyns