New Problem for POTC II

[Hawkyns]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/f...ilm/4263227.stm

Apparently, not all is well.

Hawkyns

[JoshuaRed]

Why the *&^$# should the Domincan Rep. care if their ancestors are portrayed as cannibals - blimey! Fer cryin' out loud, don't they know that in the film, our Anglo ancestors are portrayed as drunken, greedy, violent, nefarious, eternally damned PIRATES? ? ? Sheesh that's just as bad as eatin' people!

Gore should just keep the script as is, then issue a note in the credits that says "The Caribs were mostly good people, except for a few who may have eaten some folks. I promise they DON'T EAT PEOPLE anymore!"

[Charity]

ROTFLMAO Joshua, well said!

I find it rediculous too, sheesh lighten up already.

If it's in their history, don't be so secret about it it's not as if they do it now! (atleast one would hope... )

[hurricane]

So, by inference that would mean you think it's OK for Hollywood to continue to portray Native Americans as savages who do nothing but scalp the white man and rape his women?

It's OK to ignore the larger spectrum of the culture and simply dwell on isolated incidents that perpetuate a stereotype then. Hhm!

Perhaps the Domican Republic doesn't really care if we come there and degrade a part of their culture just so we can watch a pirate movie.

-- Hurricane

[Capn_Enigma]

Well said, Hurricane!

It is just this darn Hollywood/ American arrogance that had Afro- american Oscar winner Hattie McDaniel act as eye- rolling extra to the white cast. And in her Academy Award acceptance speech, she was not even allowed to speak her own mind but had to read a speech that was ghostwritten for her by the studio.

[Iron Bess]

Believe me you guys.... it's not a problem. The movie is going ahead as planned.

[the Royaliste]

Jeesh!..With the A.I.D.S. rate, and ignorance as to why in all of Hispanola, I'd n'er eat one anyhoo!..Tooo many cute little Nemo's swimmin' out there!

[Charity]

So, by inference that would mean you think it's OK for Hollywood to continue to portray Native Americans as savages who do nothing but scalp the white man and rape his women?

Hmm, you've got a point there...

[bouboulina]

Been lurking for eons, finally decided to post.

Just FYI, Dominica (home of the Caribs) and the Dominican Republic are two different places entirely. Both are in the Caribbean, but DR is on the same island as Haiti, while Dominca is in a chain of smaller islands further south and east. (Just in case anybody plans on sneaking down and watching POTC film, want to make sure you get to the right beach, )

And now back to lurk mode!

[Redd Oktober]

Alls I haver ter say is two words..."Oh brother!"

[JoshuaRed]

So, by inference that would mean you think it's OK for Hollywood to continue to portray Native Americans as savages who do nothing but scalp the white man and rape his women?

It's OK to ignore the larger spectrum of the culture and simply dwell on isolated incidents that perpetuate a stereotype then. Hhm!

Perhaps the Domican Republic doesn't really care if we come there and degrade a part of their culture just so we can watch a pirate movie.

Damn I almost got a blackeye from that kneejerk! Please. I can name many movies that portray Native Americans as ANYTHING but savage.

What do you think movies are? ISOLATED INCIDENTS - a slice of life, a small window into another world, not a round trip ticket. You only have two hours to tell a story, so the more focused the better. Why do you think those sprawling epics that attempt to cover years of time leave us feeling so empty and unfulfilled? (Legends of the Fall, for example)

If the script of POTC calls for cannibal tribes, then BRING IT ON BROTHER!!! I guarantee you that there will be scores of unoffended Dominicans lining up to play the part. My point was that the whole premise of this movie series is pure fantasy. So within the context of fantasy, it would stand to reason that any cannibals portrayed are not true, and therefore it's just silly that anyone would be offended by their presence in a goofy setting like POTC.

[Capn_Enigma]

I am beginning to see why Americans are generally regarded as being perfectly lackadaisical to anyone's history except their pathetic own one.

[hurricane]

You mean someone else's history counts? Don't see that here in this line of postings...

-- Hurricane

[JoshuaRed]

You are sorely mistaken if you think that REAL history has any place whatsover in a Hollywood film, particularly fantasy stuff. Look at The Patriot. That's the kind of laughable crap we get when Hollywood cowtows to political correctness and liberal guilt.

Of COURSE real history counts...in real life. As to cultural arrogance, well, it's pretty clear on what side of the pond THAT lies.

[hurricane]

Sorry, is that the American version of history or the world's version of history? An example: We called the English imperialists yet we don't accept other countries labeling us so. The King was a tyrant to us, a leader to the English. Our founding fathers would be considered terrorists today, not patriots. Sir Francis Drake used to be portrayed as a bold explorer, not a pirate. Come on here. History is relative.

History is entirely subjective to the time in which it is recorded and then again when it is taught. History and historians are no more objective than reporters are in reporting the news. Facts get omitted and creatively added all the time. We constantly learn that what we used to think was absolutely true was shear folly. So let's not portray today's history as the be-all-do-all of all histories. That is true arrogance.

Hurricane

[Mission]

Politically correct pirates...geez. C'mon folks.

Non-Americans who fundamentally don't like America is one thing, but Americans who fundamentally don't like America...why stay? I'm not trying to be judgemental, I am just sincerely curious. We all have the freedom to leave for what appear to be greener pastures. You can even be an ex-pat like Johnny.

[JoshuaRed]

Ok. So you're telling me that you feel they should remove all references to cannibals in the film, because it's harmful to the cultural reputation of Dominica. Right?

Or perhaps you're just telling me that I'm an ignorant redneck American because I'm ok with cannibals being in the film. In a purely fantasy film with no bearing on real history. Whatever, sticks and stones. I don't care.

It's largely accepted in the study of anthropology that much if not most historical accounts of cannibalism are false or exaggerated.

So, if the mythical character of an "evil cannibal", along the lines of the ones in Crusoe are depicted in the movie, what harm could that do? Certainly no more harm than the mythical stereotypical bucket-booted pirates do to history's real pirates/seamen, or than the stereotypical voodoo sorcerer does to real life practicers of voodoo, etc.

I don't think anyone would watch POTC II and say "Geez, I'm NEVER going to Dominica because they'll eat me."

I can see Dominica getting upset if Terrence Malick was there making a sweeping epic movie about Spanish colonists fighting a falsely-portrayed tribe of cannibal Caribs bent on burning, killing or eating the Spanish. THAT would give the wrong idea of history. But for POTC? Nah. It's unwarranted, I say.

[JoshuaRed]

Btw I would never profess to have the arrogance to call another nation's history "pathetic"....*ahem*....

[hurricane]

The original point seems lost here. The real life of pirates/seamen in movies isn't a relevant argument. That is a trade, not a race of peoples.

Caribs are an easy target because there's so few of them. Who'll care? Now, let's say that PotC wanted to portray Africans as cannibals? Do you honestly think that would be acceptable to African Americans if we just dump a pirate into a pot and watch a bunch of Africans dance around it? Heavens no. There'd be mass boycotts.

So we look for someone else that's more political acceptable, or at least, not as able to cause a scene back in the good old USA. Both cultures (not all African Americans of course, but some tribes) supposedly dabbled in cannibalism. But one is OK because its salient in the marketplace while the other is taboo.

It's typical American arrogance to pick on the little guy. Beat up Grenada and Panama for some ill conceived reasons but ignore North Korea. Same thing here. Who's going to defend a bunch of Caribs on a little island somewhere in the Caribbean when there's a buck to be made in America? And why should they really care about their own culture? We should all be so fortunate.

-- Hurricane

[JoshuaRed]

Caribs are an easy target because there's so few of them.

But it's not about targeting anyone or any group. There's no hostile intent to defame the character of a nation. Verbinski and Bruckheimer are just trying to make a fantasy story that revels in the MYTHS - not the realities of the Caribbean. From buried treasure to jolly swashbucklers, to Voodoo and even scary cannibals. Why, their very presence in a film like this should actually validate the theory that little if any cannibalism existed among the Carib! Heck, even the total absence of slavery in the POTC world is in itself a myth.

It's typical American arrogance to pick on the little guy.

Well sure it is. Whether it ashames us or not, it's the way of things and is not unique to America. Where do you think we learned this national behavior from? We certainly didn't invent it. Why even the Caribs had their little guys to push around - The Arawaks. It's a never ending cycle among ALL cultures, that we didn't start and certainly won't finish. Not trying to digress here....

[Capn_Enigma]

It's typical American arrogance to pick on the little guy.

Well sure it is. Whether it ashames us or not, it's the way of things and is not unique to America. Where do you think we learned this national behavior from? We certainly didn't invent it.

That sure is right. Some guy named Adolf invented it.

[hurricane]

I think he lives in Peoria now...

-- Hurricane

[Mission]

Good lord! Get some perspective guys! It's a movie not a national initiative. Perhaps you ought to argue the ugly American thing in Beyond Piracy. Hitler and the Carib Indians...I mean seriously... Don't you guys know anything? Hitler is in the Indiana Jones series.

[Capn_Enigma]

Captain Picard: How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong? Hmm? A thousand, fifty thousand, a million? How many people does it take, Admiral?

[JoshuaRed]

That sure is right. Some guy named Adolf invented it.

Goes MUCH further back than him...