Bruckheimer on POTC#

[Charity]

I don't remember seeing Barbossa win any fights fair and square either.

If Jack and Barbossa would have continued the sword fight, Barbossa would have won.

I recall seeing Jack run away from him, never the other way around, Barbossa is simply the better sword fighter, and so i Will.

?? In my copy of the DVD, in the only scene where Barbossa would be visible, he's shown sprawled across the treasure as the monkey approaches. Someone even comments on this in the Director's/Depp's voiceover track.

Watch it again, it's been discussed in many places on the net, and sofar you are the only one who didn't notice Barbossa not beeing "sprawled out" on that mount anymore when the monkey climbes it.

BTW, Charity, you are another one of the people to which I apologized in my first thread. I liked Rush's portrayal, too. However, just as you are a fan of this character, I am a fan of expanding the series so that it's more self-sustaining.

Oh, i didn't realise that, i meant what i said no hard feelings either :)

Thank you, and sorry for calling you Sparrow fan.

I'm glad you're not from the same corner, and sorry for being a little sensitive on the subject, but on two other boards it usually ís the Sparrow fan type who totally bash the fact of Barbossa coming back because Jack killed him and they think it's unfair etc..and not credible.

It's a fiction movie, and they also said it's to be the last theme ride movie, so the third would be great anyways

I personally hope Jack and Barbossa will settle their differences and become a duo..

Think about that, the two of them against the rest of the oceans..what pirate movie that would make

I agree many sequels s*ck, simple truth, let's hope this won't...i just feel real good about it.

Afterall they made the cursed pirate thing look só real and acceptable, i'm sure it will be a great sequel

[OryginalCinn]

I don't remember seeing Barbossa win any fights fair and square either.

If Jack and Barbossa would have continued the sword fight, Barbossa would have won.

I recall seeing Jack run away from him, never the other way around, Barbossa is simply the better sword fighter, and so i Will.

Let me state first that I like Jack and Barbossa equally, though in my opinion Jack is inequivocably the hero of the film. In fact, there is not one single character in the film that I dislike in any way, or find boring or even annoying. I love every minute of this brilliant picture. I'm actually a Will Turner fan, but I won't even open that can of worms although we might have some interesting debates. He is easily the best swordsman in the film. However, Jack steals the film and makes it unique.

I still maintain that there is no proof in the film that Barbossa is a better swordsman than Jack. Barbossa won his fights because he was unable to be killed. If you recall, Jack stabbed him first. Jack also was well aware that he was cursed and could not die himself, so the "running away" was not to escape but to move the fight - he had to get near Will to remove the curse at the opportune moment so that he could kill Barbossa. They were on equal ground all along, and I am sure that they would agree that the clear winner of the fight, whether it was ended by sword or pistol, was whoever was still alive at the end. Being pirates, fighting fair did not matter to either one of them. The only one who cared about a fair fight was Will.

[Christine]

The reason why I said it would be boring if it is all about Jack is cuz there'd be no balance. And the same goes if it is just all about Barbossa. Having both of them back in the sequels will be awesome! They both create this balance which makes the movies more enjoyable.

Someone mentioned it'd be a mistake bringing Barbossa back for the sequels. That it's time for a new villian. Well, look at the Star Wars movies, the triliogy that is. Darth Vader is an awesome villian and a vulnerable one at that, like Barbossa. It worked to keep bringing him back. Disney has their way to make it work with Barbossa as well. This is why it's taking so long to get the sequels done right. According to Bess she said we all will not be disappointed. :)

[OryginalCinn]

I have no problem with Barbossa coming back in the sequel. :) I suppose I always thought of Will being there to balance Jack out rather than Barbossa.

[Mission]

That thing about the monkey is awful thin. If I remember right he was shown in close-up, the background was fuzzy and you don't exactly see where he was climbing except in reference to where he was going. It sounds like a bunch of fan-generated hoo-ha to me. I'll bet there's no reference to this in the next movie regardless of the rationale. This is my experience with these sorts of "in the know fan" generated one scene background wonder sorts of rumors. (You should have seen the garbage generated before Episode I was released. I was a mod over at TF.N at that time. Thank God I wasn't a mod for the Prequel "Rumors" board. Gawd, what nightmare.) Besides, the real reason Barbossa wasn't shown was probably so they didn't have to pay Jeffrey to lay there while they tried to get the stupid monkey to hit its marks. I'm surprised they showed him when the monkey was crawling up that damned board in the water.

They explained the order of precedence regarding the ability with a sword in the director's voiceover. I believe it was Will, Barbossa, Jack. If I recall correctly (and I may not) Will had a large lead over the other two because he practiced so much. Going off into theory, Jack probably gets by more on his charm and wit than Barbossa does. Ergo, he would not get in as many battles as Barbossa and not be as good a swordsman. Although, one could argue that by relying on force, a traditional movie 'boss' character might get soft and often rely on their henchmen to apply the force for them once they have reached the esteemed role of boss. (Of course, one could argue lots of silly things. This is part of the reason the internet is so popular.)

Regardless, if you're going to play the game using Disney's DVD supplied material, the official word from the director (I think it was the director) is: Will, Barbossa, Jack. Makes sense to me. If you're going to be more strict and try to apply canon rules (what we see in the movie is the only thing that matters), we can debate it all day. Even the director is not lofty enough to be able to change a rabid fan's mind.

As for the characters, from my experience and the info on the DVD, it was originally set up like this: Hero - Will. Villain - Barbossa. Anti-hero - Jack. Or, to borrow another (excellent) sequel's terminology: Good - Will. Bad - Barbossa. Ugly - Jack.

Jack and Barbossa would be an unlikely pairing in standard Hollywoodese. Barbossa's the villain. Jack can team up with him (as we saw), but in the end must dispose of the villain. Unless a more powerful villain comes along and they have to unite against him/her/it. Then the villain must switch sides or at least soften.

As for the Vader comment - well, the Star Wars trilogy does suffer a bit from character nepotism, doesn't it? The original three movies are basically Han, Leia and Luke verses Vader and the Emperor throughout. As I hinted elsewhere, Jedi is nothing more than a flimsy re-hash of Star Wars (or A New Hope if you buy that bit of historical marketing rewriting.) This makes the initial trilogy weaker IMHO. Still, Lucas always intended to make the story about the life death and progeny of Anakin Skywalker. That was the framework he chose for the (originally) 9 movie multi-trilogy. I consider Indiana Jones to be a stronger trilogy than SW personally, because it isn't quite so reliant on certain characters. But we're not here to debate SW, so I'll shut up now.

[OryginalCinn]

While I've watched the film an obscene number of times, I've only watched each of the voice overs about once, so I was basing my opinion that Jack is a better swordsman than Barbossa on the one fight Barbossa participates in during the film. However, if it says in the voiceover that Barbossa is meant to be better than Jack, I'll totally accept that. There isn't all that much to judge him by in the film. BTW, I'm a huge fan of Indiana Jones, too - much more than Star Wars.

[LadyBarbossa]

Jack & Barbossa are 2 different types of pirates... in my opinion. Barbossa... a bit more crafty than the normal Hollywood sterotype. Ditto with Jack. But.. then again, none of us on the Pub are any different than your typical Hollywood sterotype as well.

Whatever happens in the sequels... I just can't wait until Barbossa's return. There are 2 ways he can return.. either resurrected(brought back to life)... or as a revenant(undead)!

Either way in my opinion... Barbossa's lost his soul to the Aztec Gods. Once you below to them, eternally you belong to them. LOOOOOONG story in how I believe that. & the Goddess of the Moon... she's an evil goddess... evil enough that her own son beheaded her!

I just have 1 problem though... 2 sequels for PotC? When god knows I can come up with TONS of more plots & such. & have been with some of the RPGs. It's been a blast. Though, recently become slow.

Another question is... will that monkey REALLY be coming back?

[Charity]

I'm actually a Will Turner fan, but I won't even open that can of worms although we might have some interesting debates. He is easily the best swordsman in the film. However, Jack steals the film and makes it unique.

Oh you must be happy then, my keyboard doesn't work right.

Where it says (in what you quoted from me)

I recall seeing Jack run away from him, never the other way around, Barbossa is simply the better sword fighter, and so i Will.

I meant to say "So IS Willl" :)

I absolutely agree he's a supurb swordsmen!

f you recall, Jack stabbed him first. J

Yeah ROTFLMAO because Barbossa threw away his sword and dared him, arms wide open..and knew he couldn't be killed!

I agree Jack probaby ran to move the fight, but i am absolutely convinced he was terriefied of Barbossa at times..his facial expressions showed that

As to the only one caring to fight honestly being Will, at the end of the movie he already got more "loose" in the things he did, i have a feeling the pirate in him may come to the surface more yet, i think it'ld be cool :)

Having both of them back in the sequels will be awesome!

I agree 100% :)

According to Bess she said we all will not be disappointed

Agree again, i believe Bess, but i also have just a good feeling about it.

I don't know if it's me, but the closer the time comes to them starting the shoot, the more excited i am getting..it's like there's a special kind of magic in the air...POTC2 magic :)

It sounds like a bunch of fan-generated hoo-ha to me.

Sure..so that means all the MANY people who saw the "hints" accactly the same were wrong and you are right :)

So be it

the Goddess of the Moon... she's an evil goddess... evil enough that her own son beheaded her!

Mmm..that all depends on which spirituality or religion you believe in :)

In Native American beliefs the moon is good.

I believe the moon was only "bad" through the curse.

I hope the monkey comes back (Sorry Geoff , she's absolutely adorable, and as Geoffrey said on the lost dis/becoming Barbossa, he's the smartest of him all!

Oh and Barbossa without the monkey wouldn't be the same imo :)

[Mission]

Ok, Charity, I'll bet you there's no mention or reference in the next two movies to the scene with the monkey crawling up the treasure pile in association with Rush's character's alleged disappearance. PM me to discuss terms of the wager.

[Charity]

No need ROTFLMAO..you might just be right.

Truth is I, and along with me many others I've spoken with, am really anxious to know more about the new movie.

There's not much coming out, so the bit in the end is just something to hold on to.

I totally realise, maybe it's a diversion made by Disney's film makers/writers and something totally different will happen

I'll also be honest that, although it's been official since a while that everyone's coming back, Barbossa's role might be less big..

Sorry if i sound ..how shall i call it, "pushy" in my believes about all this, just hoping the man will come back and have a big role again in the whole thing.

So, you may be right all the time

[Mission]

Ok, Charity, I'll bet you there's no mention or reference in the next two movies to the scene with the monkey crawling up the treasure pile in association with Rush's character's alleged disappearance. PM me to discuss terms of the wager.

I think we're going to have to wait for 3 to find out the answer.

-Mission (who has a long memory )

[Mission]

I've seen a lot of sequels and I'm hoping they don't go the typical route. Based on their decision to include all the actors, it looks to me that's what we're going to get. I'm hoping for something better than a Butch and Sundance: The Early Days prequel or a Die Hard II or a The Sting II sequel.

I DO want to see a series that can continue beyond giving the "hardcore fans" a quick and dirty follow up where we can all get our warm fuzzies seeing the same people in new, but very similar situations. Bruckheimer is typically considered by industry professionals to be a mediocre director who follows certain trends. POTC was a wonderful departure from his norm. Given that he will probably have more input into the sequels, I am crying for a good sequel instead of the normal 'here's all the people doing the things you expect once again' sequel.

Well, it wasn't as good as I hoped, nor was it as bad as I feared. It was certainly an action movie.

It was also a mid-series sequel in the standard tradition IMO. The scene where Captain Jack's Delorean gets struck by lightening and they find out they have to send Lando and Leia to the Jabba's lair which is off the edge of the map were particularly telling. If they have to defeat Eris the goddess of chaos when they get there, I'm gonna send Ted and Terry a letter containing a straight-lined mouth smiley with a raised eyebrow. (Although a duel between Aris' hair (Sinbad) and Davy Jones' 'beard' might be an SFX extravaganza worth watching.)