Bruckheimer on POTC#

[Charity]

This was posted in the_gspot Geoffrey Rush yahoo group:

http://comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=7716

Don't know if it's authentic but it seems like it is.

I sure hope Disney comes with a REAL big cheque, POTC3 must come :)

[Silver Steele]

What I find interesting is that nothing is stated about POTC2? Perhaps Barbossa won't be in POTC2? (I remember Bess saying something about a scheduling conflict, but he might have a small role in POTC2, and a larger role in POTC3.)

POTC just wouldn't be the same without Barbossa and his miscreant crew. Without Barbossa, you might as well call it "The Continuing Tales of 'Captain' Jack Sparrow" instead of POTC.

[Mission]

As good a villian as Barbosa made, I would personally rather they not use him in II or III. (Sorry to all you rabid fans - it's only MHO) Barbosa died in the first movie - I think they should move on to other villians and continue the story from where they left it. Otherwise it sounds like a forced sequel created to involve all the old characters and try and cash in on a remake in disguise. (Kinda' like the weak link Return of the Jedi in SW series - it could have been such a great film...)

The key strong points to this series are Depp's character and the curse. I say get great writers to build on these. (It wouldn't bother me much if they wrote Will and Elizabeth into background roles either - unfortunately Hollywood usually hasn't got that much confidence or imagination.) Give us Cheung Po Tsai for a villain instead mysteriously resurrecting the dead or doing a prequel. (I'll bet they don't do that with Yun-Fat's character either - bet he starts off being questionably villainous and turns out to be a secretly heroic or another anti-heroic character like Depp. Either that or he's an old pal of Captain Jack's.)

[DumbassTurtle]

Yeah I just read that and I was like um... but didn't he die? Damn hollywood not having any ba.. um... spine?

[Firethorn]

POTC just wouldn't be the same without Barbossa and his miscreant crew. Without Barbossa, you might as well call it "The Continuing Tales of 'Captain' Jack Sparrow" instead of POTC.

But isn't that pretty much what the story is... it is about Cap'n Jack Sparrow and his continuing adventures.

[Silver Steele]

I thought it was about "Pirates of the Caribbean"?

[OryginalCinn]

Barbossa apparently died, but if the damned monkey was still alive and cursed at the end, would that not mean that everyone was still alive and cursed at the end?

I'd rather see Barbossa come back than have them introduce Papa Keith Sparrow... but my biggest fear is they'll put a little Will Turner the 3rd in it. Sequels with children are generally quite lousy (though there are exceptions to that, but its such a tired plot.)

[Mission]

No, SS, it's about a ride at Disney Theme Parks called Pirates of the Caribbean. But they've milked the ride for a lot of its gags and now must go somewhere else.

Barbossa is your standard Hollywood pirate villain with a monkey and a twist - the curse. His crew, likewise. Other than the ingenious curse it was pretty typical stuff. (The curse was ingenious in that it allowed them to create animated skeletons as seen in the ride.) Will is your standard Hollywood straight pirate hero with a millennial facelift. Elizibeth is your standard nineties "strong" heroine in an 18th century bodice. Take those characters alone, even with the curse, and you probably have, at best, a fair run in the theatres with a quick release to video. And, as many of you know, NONE of these characters are really true to actual pirate legend, so that's clearly irrelevant here. They're true to pirate movies.

But Depp upset the standard movie fodder apple cart with his take on the anti-heroic pirate character. They had intended to give us an Errol Flynn-style pirate character. But Johnny don't play that game and he started designing this off-the-wall take on a pirate by injecting self-admitted liberal doses of Bugs Bunny, Pepé LePew, Kid Shelleen and, of course, Keith. He gold-capped four of his teeth so they'd let him keep at least two or three. (And they didn't even want to let him keep those.)

Sparrow is an original and interesting pirate character creation. It's what keeps this movie out of the discount bin with Muppet's Treasure Island, Cutthroat Island and several other modern pirate movies. If you don't believe me, go read all the movie reviews (you can check many of them out here) - whether they loved the character or hated him it was a primary point of consideration in most of their reviews. As one reviewer put it, "...in fact, Depp's performance here is so riveting that when Jack does not appear in a scene, the film almost drags."

Now, I like the background characters and the cliché pirate movie characters as much as anyone on this forum, but you have to admit that we've seen them all before. That's why I think they could apply any name and good actor to the roles of the straight-man, the evil pirate and the fiesty female archetypes and have it work. Keep Depp as Sparrow and keep the curse because those are unique properties to this series. But I'd like to see them give us some new characters that incorporate some of other pirate legends and ideas. (A Stede Bonnet type character for example - too funny in Sparrow's hands.)

[Silver Steele]

Well, that's what makes this world so fun at times. Everyone has free will, and opinions to live and think the way they want! The movie biz, however, caters to the general population's interests.

Let's just hope that Disney cuts them that check soon.

[Mission]

The movie biz, however, caters to the general population's interests.

Now, c'mon Steele, you know that's not true. The movie biz caters to what they think they know about the general population's interests - and they don't think much of our ability to embrace new material.

Star Wars was turned down by over twenty studios. Stallone received over 100 rejections for application as an actor and his script for Rocky. The Lord of the Rings concept was turned down by almost every studio to which Jackson presented it. Instead of original movies like these, which struggle mightily to get into production, they green light unimaginative movies like Seed of Chucky, Catwoman and AvP. What a fine job Hollywood does catering to our interests...

OriginalCinn, the monkey was alive at the end of the movie, but not cursed. He only cursed because he took another coin out of the chest at the end.

___________

"Making a good film means bringing together exactly the right talents with exactly the right material. Not an easy job."

"I don't see how any business...can run with such a high failure ratio."

"There are many ways this business operates. The simple answer to your question is that just often enough the right materials come together with the right talents. The miracle of art happens. Even people like you put down your barbells and rush out, money in hand, to see what mammon has wrought. And it's payday for the hindustry. A single flash of light in the night makes safe the dark."

-Fletch and Frederick Mooney, Fletch's Moxie

[OryginalCinn]

OriginalCinn, the monkey was alive at the end of the movie, but not cursed. He only cursed because he took another coin out of the chest at the end.

Ohhh, that toally makes sense, too!

[Kathyrn Ramsey]

Ok here is my opinion... i think that they should have Anne Bonney or Grace O'Malley ( thanks Merry) meet Jack Sparrow... can ye imagine the battle between the two or three... lol

[LadyBarbossa]

:: Rolls eyes rather annoyingly:: Aye.. I've heard this bloody story over & over & over & over & over again... Barbossa was shot.. he keeled over & died like Jack wanted. Point being?

Ummm... imagination... think of pirate lore. Is a pirate REALLY dead? Hmm?

Besides... I'm sure there are PLENTY of ways Barbossa can return... as well as why Jack returns as well & out smarts Norrington.

::pulls out pistol; whips out sword; in Barbossa style on the treasure mound::: I'll bloody well gut the next bilge rat that contends to the fact the bloody Writers have NO SAY in their own bloody film! I hear PLENTY of th' complaints from m' friend.

& bloody damn right I will be VERY, VERY happy for Barbossa's return! Hell, they can bring the ghost of Blackbeard in for all I care! Even the ghost of Cortez or perhaps the crafty temptress Malinche for all I care! Add spice to the fun & Jack more dilemmas to deal with.

The sequels can't be any cheesier than the other classical films with pirates in them.

Can one complain if it makes you feel like the adventurous child again... with temptations of treasures untold... with adventure yet to be had... etc, etc...

I saw bring on the fun! Let the Pirates roam th' waters once more!

& I.. await Barbossa's devilish return. ::: Evil grinz:::

[the Royaliste]

Ok here is my opinion... i think that they should have Anne Bonney or Grace O'Malley ( thanks Merry) meet Jack Sparrow... can ye imagine the battle between the two or three... lol

Well, just my 'opinion', but I just dont see Disney enterin' into the lesbian/straight guy scenario.........

[Rumba Rue]

Clearly the article is old. Yes we already know there will be a 2 and 3 of POTC and we have it on the words of Johnny Depp that Keith Richards will in fact be in the next shows.

Ah the secrets o' Disney, lest the public find out--- the reason for the closed set.

T'will keep ye guessing on any kind o' plot twists and turns, so I don't even think presuming anything would be good.

All I do know from Iron Bess is that when the monkey took the coin, things changed.

Rumba Rue

** **

[Mission]

The writers don't have THAT much say; Hollywood is a group effort designed to protect the studio from taking risks...I mean from making mistakes! POTC had...what? Three? Four? sets of writers before they'd agree to make it? From what I understand, in films like this one, they are given a set of parameters and told to write something. That's what a script treatment is, if I get this right. And my complaint is that their parameters are: we got these people on board, so make sure the script includes them. Blah.

Also, I never said, "Barbossa's dead, we can't possibly bring him back." I said, he's shown as dead, why bring him back? Move on to new villians that are a outside the standard Hollywood pirate villian mold. (I'll bet most people aren't even aware of the existance of Chinese or Maltese pirates. Outside of China and Malta, that is.) I'd like to see a series along the Indiana Jones or James Bond line. Give us new villians with ingenious new ideas and horrifically enticing evil purposes. It adds spice to the mix.

I also said something along the lines of 'sorry to all you Barbosa fans.' I was thinking specifically of you and one or two others, Lady Barbossa. I knew you'd disagree with me (which I have no issue with; we all have our favorite characters). :)

Jack just seems like the perfect character around which to create a series of interesting adventures involving the curse. Bringing Barbosa back is just treading sea water in my mind. We know that story already. Why not take Depp's fascinating take on the writer's character and really exercise him?

BTW, I don't see Keith Richards being the horrible addition that is being discussed elsewhere. I'll bet he'll be like 'Q' in the James Bond series: a short but humorous role.

[Christine]

It's cool that Jack Sparrow is an original character and I love Johnny Depp, but I always thought Jack to be too cartoony. Since it's a Disney movie it should be expected to have the main character be rather cartoony. But because of that it's why I like Barbossa better. He was the better pirate than Jack was. And I can't see the sequels being only about Jack, it will be quite boring. There needs to be that balance of both Jack and Barbossa, like with the first one. They are like night and day and you need both.

[LadyBarbossa]

No hard feelin's, Mission.

Though, Christine's a mild point there. Jack.. well... Jack is the good, Barbossa is the evil. Can't have the light without the dark.

But, aye. I see Jack on a slew of adventures as well... if not like the Star Wars saga or James Bond... maybe like the Star Trek series or Hercules.. or better yet, like Doctor Who!

Admittedly, I'm sure we all come to agree that PotC has now grown into a likeable & loveable cult!

Now... if we can have more mechandise... conventions... & the PotC Interactive more often.... etc... ::le sigh:: :) Pirate life would be grand.

Though... I still stick by Barbossa's side. ::: Evil grinz:::

[OryginalCinn]

It's cool that Jack Sparrow is an original character and I love Johnny Depp, but I always thought Jack to be too cartoony. Since it's a Disney movie it should be expected to have the main character be rather cartoony. But because of that it's why I like Barbossa better. He was the better pirate than Jack was. And I can't see the sequels being only about Jack, it will be quite boring. There needs to be that balance of both Jack and Barbossa, like with the first one. They are like night and day and you need both.

With utmost respect and deepest regard to everyone in this thread and to the film itself, I have to disagree. Jack was a far better pirate than Barbossa was. He was far more crafty and wily, and his "cartoonish" nature was more often than not a facade to hide what he was really up to. Barbossa got by on brute strength, and he was able to amass all that swag simply because he and his crew couldn't die.

Let me also just mention that I LOVE Barbossa, and think he's a wonderful villain and character, but he's far more typical of a pirate than Jack. Jack is way more interesting, especially in the few moments when he drops the foppish facade and you catch a glimpse into what his real thought process might be. I cannot imagine any film with Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow being boring for even a moment. Besides, he's got Will, Elizabeth, & Norrington to balance him out. The villain is totally negligable.

[Mission]

Yeah, I liked Barbossa too. But like OriginalCinn said, he's your stock pirate villain. Rush and the costume people went way out of his way to make Barbossa a standard pirate movie villain - from the rotting teeth and dirty nails to the era-appropriate language the the stock pirate villain "Arrrr!"

Nothing wrong with all that, it was a fine bit of acting. However, they now have the stage from which to jump into some creative new pirate villains instead of giving us more of same. The could build upon the genre and expand its horizons some. I say give us the pirate version of a creative new villain like Goldfinger and Oddjob (who were new in their era and are still excellent villains) or a crafty Belloq.

Also, I say brush up on or replace Elizabeth's role and appearance so we can get a Marion Ravenwood or Princess Leia-style heroine. Even better, give us a Red Sonja (er, as portrayed in the books, not in the poor excuse for a movie) or Xenia from Goldeneye. Either that, or upgrade and build Anna-Maria's role so we have a fiesty complement Depp's role. (Plus they could then add one of those intriguing David & Maddie "are they or aren't they" relationships if they wanted to).

BTW, I believe it's Jack's cartoony side that makes him so interesting. As OriginalCinn pointed out, you never quite know what he's doing and that makes it interesting. As I mentioned in a previous post, if it weren't for the Jack Sparrow character, I suspect this would have been another bargain bin pirate movie with no sequel in the offing for us to debate.

[Charity]

What I find interesting is that nothing is stated about POTC2? Perhaps Barbossa won't be in POTC2? (I remember Bess saying something about a scheduling conflict, but he might have a small role in POTC2, and a larger role in POTC3.)

POTC just wouldn't be the same without Barbossa and his miscreant crew. Without Barbossa, you might as well call it "The Continuing Tales of 'Captain' Jack Sparrow" instead of POTC.

I totally agree.

All is Jack this and Jack that!

Without Barbossa he won't be as much fun anyhow, they need each other..and Barbossa IS coming back weather they like it or not (they being the Sparrow fans)

:: Rolls eyes rather annoyingly:: Aye.. I've heard this bloody story over & over & over & over & over again... Barbossa was shot.. he keeled over & died like Jack wanted. Point being?

Ummm... imagination... think of pirate lore. Is a pirate REALLY dead? Hmm?

Besides... I'm sure there are PLENTY of ways Barbossa can return... as well as why Jack returns as well & out smarts Norrington.

::pulls out pistol; whips out sword; in Barbossa style on the treasure mound::: I'll bloody well gut the next bilge rat that contends to the fact the bloody Writers have NO SAY in their own bloody film! I hear PLENTY of th' complaints from m' friend.

& bloody damn right I will be VERY, VERY happy for Barbossa's return! Hell, they can bring the ghost of Blackbeard in for all I care! Even the ghost of Cortez or perhaps the crafty temptress Malinche for all I care! Add spice to the fun & Jack more dilemmas to deal with.

The sequels can't be any cheesier than the other classical films with pirates in them.

Can one complain if it makes you feel like the adventurous child again... with temptations of treasures untold... with adventure yet to be had... etc, etc...

I saw bring on the fun! Let the Pirates roam th' waters once more!

& I.. await Barbossa's devilish return. ::: Evil grinz:::

AARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Lady Barbossa YOU GO GIRL!

Oh and, i just saw the Black Swan the other day,...who says POTC is cheesy?

You're so right Stacy, those old "Classics" everyone talks about...now THEY are cheesy!

Double Quote:

I.. await Barbossa's devilish return. ::: Evil grinz:::

OH YEAH...me too, i can't wait...he's sooooo...delisciously bad.... :

All I do know from Iron Bess is that when the monkey took the coin, things changed.

It's something i wonder about though, when the monkey climbes the mount and takes the coin...Barbossa is already gone, and the chest wide open...so he must've woken up or been risen or whatever..before Jack the monkey became cursed again...

Also, I never said, "Barbossa's dead, we can't possibly bring him back." I said, he's shown as dead, why bring him back? Move on to new villians that are a outside the standard Hollywood pirate villian mold. (I'll bet most people aren't even aware of the existance of Chinese or Maltese pirates. Outside of China and Malta, that is.) I'd like to see a series along the Indiana Jones or James Bond line. Give us new villians with ingenious new ideas and horrifically enticing evil purposes. It adds spice to the mix.

God...give it a rest mate, THAT arguement is getting old!

He IS coming back weather you like it or not, and gimme a break mate..he's been UNDEAD all along and no thought THAT was illogical so why would him coming back to life be so?

Why don't ya write to Hollywood and ask them to make a show for all of ye Jack Sparrow lovers..."The Sparrow bunch"(That includes daddy Keith and whomever more you want in it )

Last time i checked the movie was called Pirates of the Caribbean, not Pirate of the Caribbean.

Jack is important, and fun, but he's not what the movie is about!

t's cool that Jack Sparrow is an original character and I love Johnny Depp, but I always thought Jack to be too cartoony.

Fully agree again, i like Jack, but he's a comedian...i mean come on..Barbossa is the réál pirate there!

Oh and uh....i hate to say this, but i have yet to see óne fight where mr Sparrow actually won (sword fight.)

He won everyone of them by cheating, even killing Barbossa!

He shot Barbossa while he looked in the opposite direction, that to me is like shooting him in the back.

If he was the hero he's made to be, he would have won fair and square, with the sword!

But because of that it's why I like Barbossa better. He was the better pirate than Jack was.

Absolutely!

nd I can't see the sequels being only about Jack, it will be quite boring. There needs to be that balance of both Jack and Barbossa, like with the first one. They are like night and day and you need both.

I would be bored to death, the interacting between them is what made the movie more then just funny, but exciting too.

Admittedly, I'm sure we all come to agree that PotC has now grown into a likeable & loveable cult!

Now... if we can have more mechandise... conventions... & the PotC Interactive more often.... etc... ::le sigh:: smile.gif Pirate life would be grand.

I'm still trying to get Dutch people to get together, two i know are already making pirate clothes for the POTC 2 premiere, and me ofcourse, i want something to start to grow here and i will do my best to get it to happen, if it takes me the rest of my life

Though... I still stick by Barbossa's side. ::: Evil grinz:::

AMEN! ;)

Oh, uhm..no hard feelings here either

'Just a fierce Barbossa follower

[OryginalCinn]

Oh and uh....i hate to say this, but i have yet to see óne fight where mr Sparrow actually won  (sword fight.)

He won everyone of them by cheating, even killing Barbossa!

He shot Barbossa while he looked in the opposite direction, that to me is like shooting him in the back.

If he was the hero he's made to be, he would have won fair and square, with the sword!

I don't remember seeing Barbossa win any fights fair and square either.

[Black Hearted Pearl]

Okay pirates, play by the guidelines or I shall be forced to bury the thread in POTC rumors. That one is a pretty long thread already and you will soon get as lost in the rumors as a brig in the fog of Isle de la Muerta.

[DumbassTurtle]

i know barbosa is coming back which i've come to the feeling of whatever about though what i'm hoping is that is isnt undead in this one so maybe he'll have to gang up with some other villians to seek his revenge! make it more interesting and ducj... um such...

though i am a barbosa fan i just want to see how far they can thake this!

i love pirates *snuggles with all\(*

[Mission]

It's something i wonder about though, when the monkey climbes the mount and takes the coin...Barbossa is already gone, and the chest wide open...so he must've woken up or been risen or whatever..before Jack the monkey became cursed again...

?? In my copy of the DVD, in the only scene where Barbossa would be visible, he's shown sprawled across the treasure as the monkey approaches. Someone even comments on this in the Director's/Depp's voiceover track.

BTW, Charity, you are another one of the people to which I apologized in my first thread. I liked Rush's portrayal, too. However, just as you are a fan of this character, I am a fan of expanding the series so that it's more self-sustaining.

Also, please don't slap a Captain Jack/Johnny Depp Fan label on me. I'm a fan of what he did with an otherwise pat role. I do maintain that Captain Jack and the curse are the only truly original things this movie offered us. As I've said several times, it was these things that kept it from being just another typical pirate movie that would have normally barely cleared its production and marketing costs. Pirate movies have not usually fared very well since the 50's and early 60's and have long been relegated to "kid's entertainment". I don't think we'd have seen the swell of interest in piracy amongst the groundlings had the two elements I mentioned not been present. (I consider this interest a good thing - I'm aware that some others do not.)

I've seen a lot of sequels and I'm hoping they don't go the typical route. Based on their decision to include all the actors, it looks to me that's what we're going to get. I'm hoping for something better than a Butch and Sundance: The Early Days prequel or a Die Hard II or a The Sting II sequel.

I DO want to see a series that can continue beyond giving the "hardcore fans" a quick and dirty follow up where we can all get our warm fuzzies seeing the same people in new, but very similar situations. Bruckheimer is typically considered by industry professionals to be a mediocre director who follows certain trends. POTC was a wonderful departure from his norm. Given that he will probably have more input into the sequels, I am crying for a good sequel instead of the normal 'here's all the people doing the things you expect once again' sequel.

All that being said, the sequels cannot be just Jack. Jack alone wouldn't be interesting enough for most people to identify with in the same way that Austin Powers is less interesting to most people than the more peccable Dr. Evil. Similarly, the ever-flawed Chuck Jones version of Daffy Duck is riotious in his fight with the unseen animator in Duck Amuck while the more staid, anti-heroic Bugs Bunny can't quite pull it off to good effect in Rabbit Rampage. A movie of Jack alone would be dull to extreme and would head off in another wrong direction. (No worries, though, Bruckheimer would almost certainly never do this.)

A comment on comedians...this sort of movie lives and dies by the humor they use. Same with Indiana Jones and Back to the Future and most other action/adventure movies. If you want a really enlightening exposure to how important humor is to these sorts of movies, check out Zemeckis' voice over for the first BTTF movie. The whole movie is basically one long stream of gags, set ups for gags and closure to gags hung on a skeleton of time travel in a Delorean. Ditto POTC if you look carefully. Rush is suitably villainous, but he's also quite funny and and integral part of the gags. Humor is crucial.

Why don't ya write to Hollywood and ask them to make a show for all of ye Jack Sparrow lovers...

Touché! (Er, setting the 'Jack Sparrow lovers' comment aside - I've already addressed that.) I do agree that discussing this with you all is not exactly going to change the path these sequels are already treading. My letter to Hollywood would get barely a glance. (It has to be more of a group demand - and even that typically only gets us a few nods from the directors.)