Pirate Mythtory

[Fox]

What ho piratey people,

just to let you know that my very own website "Pirate Mythtory" is now online

Feel free to visit and tell me it's all wrong at your leisure. Then get your friends to as well.

Many people on this board (and others) have helped with information and ideas. Thanks guys.

[Mission]

Nice work on the flags page. Hopefully Tony, Marcus and that lot will check it out and help fill in some questionmarks.

The proven false pirates page looks very familiar. Caroline McTaggert, huh? Who'da thunk it?

[Fox]

The flags page is the one I'm most pleased with. I spent days trawling the internet and came to the conclusion that there were 20 different pirate flags on the net claiming to be real. I've proven some are real, proven some are false, but more importantly I think I've doubled the number (or more) to 42.

Aye, Carolyn McTaggart. You may notice that your name is top of the list of people to whom thanks are due Mission! Even if it is in a totally random order.

[Capt.mino]

My most sincere congratulations.

Excellent work. Maybe the most acurrate research on Pirates aveilable in the net.

I wonder why you dont have more pirate profiles, maybe time has been not very aveilable to you to keep on your good work.

Sincerely,

Capt. mino

Ps: If you need nice pictures for your web site let me know, i got a lot of local archeological books and cds plenty of neat pictures of all types of small arms, cannons, ships, forts, instruments, etc etc., theres also a Spanish goverment library full of copies of documents, maps and portraits from El archivo general de Indias de Sevilla. (The need to read spanish is obligatory in most cases .)

[Fox]

Thanks!

The lack of pirate profiles is basically down to the fact that I'm trying to confine the site to people who either did not exist, or whose stories are often largely fictional. More importantly, I'm confining it to pirates about whom I can prove that (or come close to proving it). If you can think of more fictional pirates who turn up on one or more factual website or book I'd be glad to add them.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Bump this up for all those with questions about Pirate Autheticity!

Even if you think you know everything, trust me you will learn something or at least it will qestion some long held beliefs.

gof

[Wartooth]

Great site, Foxe. Well done!

Wartooth

[lorien_stormfeather]

Wonderful job. Have added it to the PDX Pyrate Crew website links!

Especially like the flags section!

You might explain who Microprose is, for the less game savvy.

[Fox]

Thanks everyone!

I've found some more evidence toady about the so-called Christopher Moody flag and one of the Roberts flags so I'll be updating the flags page soon. I've actually managed to collect 120 or so genuine identifications of pirate flags which I'll be putting into a pirate flag website as soon as I have the time.

In the mean-time, if anyone has any ideas for more bits of pirate mythtory which need publicly exploding I'd love to here about them.

[Red Maria]

Good Fox!e Tha part about the quartemaster maybe somewhat off since I did find some more information about quartemasters in William Snelgarve's book:

A new account of some parts of Guinea,|band the slave-trade, containing I. The history of the late conquest of the Kingdom of Whidaw by the King of Dahomè ... II. The manner how the negroes become slaves. ... III. A relation of the author's being taken by pirates, .. printed 1734. Starting on page 199:

"The captain of a pirate ship, is cheifly chosen to fight the vessels they may meet with. Besides him, they chuse another principal Officer, whom they call the Quarter-matser, who has general Inspection of all Affairs, and often controuls the Captain's Orders: This Person is also to be the first Man in borading any ship they shall attack; or go in the boat on any desprate Enterprise. Besides the Captain and Quarte-master the Pirates had all other Officers as usual on board Men of War."

This pirate captivity account occured in 1719. Marcus Redicker cities more refernces and according to his endnote mostly primary sources. I had been meaning to post this on the quartermaster thread but got side track by a few things at work. There are other refernces which I can supply if you want. I hope I'm not being too critical cause I like the site!

[Fox]

Criticism with sources I welcome wholeheartedly.

One of the problems I had with the site (which is really aimed at those in search of historical truth, but starting from a less scholarly point than most on this board) was how to show strongly enough that I disagree with many points on other websites and in books, without going too far the opposite way myself. With the quartermaster I've really tried to fight the idea that the QM was always second in charge, and it's very difficult to do that while acknowldeging that he sometimes seemed that way.

I believe Corsair mentioned the Snelgrave source on the original QM thread, and there's a very important point about it. Correct me if I'm wrong (because it's 1 a.m. here and I'm going from memory so I might well be), but wasn't Snelgrave a captive of Davis, then Cocklyn, then Roberts? Now, I firmly believe that most of the evidence which shows QMs in a position of unexpected power and authority comes from Roberts' crew (as I state on my site), and since the evidence from other crews goes against this (the lack of extra shares etc) I am of the opinion (until someone convinces me otherwise) that QMs in the Roberts "family" of pirates enjoyed a higher status than not only RN and merchant QMs, but also other pirate QMs, possibly because of the proportionally higher number of men they "represented".

The statement "the Pirates had all other Officers as usual on board Men of War" is VERY interesting. I wonder how accurate this is? Roberts does seem to have had more officers than most pirates, I wonder how many more exactly...

[Nelson Cooke]

The Mythtory site is a great read and highly informative at the same time (you don't often get both at once). It corrects a lot of clichés and misnomers that sure as hell need correcting. For instance, my personal pet peeve: Arg. The only time I ever say "Arg" is when I hear it used to death by pirate wannabes when it shouldn't be at all (that having been said, if it's in a story, and the story's good, I'll excuse it). Good work, shipmate.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

The other thing to keep in mind is that there was no pirate "play book" in the sense that once it was decided to turn to piracy they did not follow a 12 step program.

I would imagine that the pirates ran the ship like they had always experienced a ship being run.

I don't think that they suddenly decided that certain positions were more deserving of extra pay and authority.

Unfortunately, we seem to try to create things as we feel they should of been instead of how they really were.

[Red Maria]

I believe Corsair mentioned the Snelgrave source on the original QM thread, and there's a very important point about it. Correct me if I'm wrong (because it's 1 a.m. here and I'm going from memory so I might well be), but wasn't Snelgrave a captive of Davis, then Cocklyn, then Roberts?

The mention about the position of QM was in conjunction with Cocklyn. Snelgrave talks about the arrival of three pirate ships. Cocklyn on the , Davis and Le Boofe. There is an interesting passage (following the priate captains having taken Snelgrave's finest clothes) on page 257:

"The pirate Captains having taken these clothes without leave from the Quater-master, it gave grave offence to all the crew; who alledg'd, "If they suffered such things, the Captains would the future assume a Power, to take whatever they liked for themselves"... " So upon thier returning (form a night on the town) on board next Morning, the Coats were taken from then and put into the common chest, to be sold at the mast. And having been reported, That I had a hand in the advising the Captains tp put on the Coats it gained me the ill-will in particular of one Williams, who was Quater-master of Le Boofe's ship."

Snelgrave else where states he had to ask the quatermater permission for his surgeon to attend his wounded. I have't seen Roberts make an apperance yet. I'm still going through the narrative in my copious free time. There a bits that reflect Roberts such as no women aboard ship and if taken as prise not to force her against her will. But Snelgrave use the phrase "A Rule amongst the Pirates" as if there was common pratice not something followed by one pirate captain's rule or those captains and crew asscoiated with him. Maybe Snelgrave was making assumptions? He was with I would consider three very different captains.

[Coastie04]

Great site! Although I really didn't put much stock into some of the myths, it was nice to have my beliefs of their invalidity verified. At the same time, a few of my long-held beliefs were dispelled. Great site overall, and I look forward to reading many updates and any future sites you make.

Coastie

[Fancy]

Foxe, excellent site!

Your site answers a lot of questions, and dispells some things even I thought to be true, like some of the flags for instance... I wish we could post links in a certain place when certain questions seem to be repeatedly asked.... savvy? :)

Kisses,

[Fox]

Tis annoying, particularly as a couple of the pages I wrote specifically with that in mind for next time someone asks "did pirates..."

The flags is an interesting one, I don't think anyone has ever really questioned the validity of most of the flags in books and on the web before - they're so common that people just accept them. I thought at first that the source for many of them (Avery's, Rackham's, Bonnet's etc) was 19th century - no earlier than 1880 - but I haven't actually found evidence of them outside the 20th century yet, they seem to have been unknown even in 1923.

Swooning from the kisses

[corsair2k3]

Greetings,

I wonder if any might have been derived from 19th-century pulp fiction, and thereby introduced into 20th century texts...

The Corsair

[Fox]

I wonder if any might have been derived from 19th-century pulp fiction, and thereby introduced into 20th century texts...

I think that's quite possible. With a couple it seems the flags themselves are perfectly authentic, but the attribution of them to certain pirates seems anachronistic. The supposed Christopher Moody flag for example is shown (more or less) in a 1716 flag book as a Barbary corsair flag, and again in the 1730s (though that's probably just cribbing off the earlier source). However, I've not found any attribution of that flag (or any other) to Moody until the 20th century. Stuff like that would lend weight to the pulp-fiction idea, or more likely the pseudo-history of the same period.

I ought to say of course that I'm not necessarily the first to question the validity of flags, but I think I'm the first to do it publicly. Just realised how vain I sounded in the last post.

[Longarm]

I don't know if I should ask this here or on your site or both. Just what is that fist symbol on the flag attributed to Stede Bonnet?

[Fox]

You mean the thing on the left of the skull? I think it's generally assumed to be a dagger, but I also don't think that's an authentic flag.

[The Island]

I saw an amazing site Pirate Mythtory that showed the Pirate Flags fact and fiction. Does anyone have any other sites that show more flags like from more obscure pirates and the buccaneers as well? I am interested to see if there is more flags out there to view.

[Mission]

Pirate Mythory is Foxe's site. He's done more research on the pirate flags than anyone else I know and I would take his word on a flag over most other websites and many books.

[Capt. Sterling]

Foxe is also a member of this pub...he has contributed to many threads and his information is always of great interest and great value...he is a tremendous help here.

[Fox]

And I'd like to remind readers that at this year's AGM of the Foxe Fan Club the posts of Vice-Chair and Secretary will be up for election...