Origin of "Dead Man's Chest"

[dasNdanger]

Ah, nice thread!! Although much of the following information has been covered in some form, I'll still post the information I have on this subject (combined from several posts I made on another forum):

First, the words to the entire poem/song:

Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum

Fifteen men on a dead man's chest

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

Drink and the devil had done for the rest

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

The mate was fixed by the bosun's pike

The bosun brained with a marlinspike

And cookey's throat was marked belike

It had been gripped by fingers ten;

And there they lay, all good dead men

Like break o'day in a boozing ken

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

Fifteen men of the whole ship's list

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Dead and be damned and the rest gone whist!

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

The skipper lay with his nob in gore

Where the scullion's axe his cheek had shore

And the scullion he was stabbed times four

And there they lay, and the soggy skies

Dripped down in up-staring eyes

In murk sunset and foul sunrise

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

Fifteen men of 'em stiff and stark

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Ten of the crew had the murder mark!

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead

Or a yawing hole in a battered head

And the scuppers' glut with a rotting red

And there they lay, aye, damn my eyes

Looking up at paradise

All souls bound just contrawise

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

Fifteen men of 'em good and true'

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Ev'ry man jack could ha' sailed with Old Pew,

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

There was chest on chest of Spanish gold

With a ton of plate in the middle hold

And the cabins riot of stuff untold,

And they lay there that took the plum

With sightless glare and their lips struck dumb

While we shared all by the rule of thumb,

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

More was seen through a sternlight screen

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

Chartings undoubt where a woman had been

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

'Twas a flimsy shift on a bunker cot

With a dirk slit sheer through the bosom spot

And the lace stiff dry in a purplish blot

Oh was she wench or some shudderin' maid

That dared the knife and took the blade

By God! she had stuff for a plucky jade

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

Fifteen men on a dead man's chest

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

Drink and the devil had done for the rest

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

We wrapped 'em all in a mains'l tight

With twice ten turns of a hawser's bight

And we heaved 'em over and out of sight,

With a Yo-Heave-Ho! and a fare-you-well

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell

Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell,

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

~finis~

HISTORY

There seems to be many different versions of this song, but the above lyrics are from "Derelict" by Young E. Allison. Both this poem/song and a 1901 musical in which it was featured were inspired by Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island.

I found the rest of my information at this site: Yo Ho Ho

Here are some excerpts:

The original title of this poem was Derelict and written by a Kentucky poet in 1891. Young E. Allison (1853-1932), of Louisville published his long and gory impression of a rhyme from a popular novel of the day in the Louisville Courier-Journal. He promoted Derelict as "a reminiscence of Treasure Island" the adventure novel penned by Robert Louis Stevenson.

As the authors original title points out, the verse is about a ship found adrift at sea. The crew have all done each other in and left behind a ship laden with plunder. The discoverers of this shipwreck of flotsam and jetsam have tossed the dead overboard with a Yo-Heave-Ho! and a fare-you-well then taken the loot for themselves...

Fifteen Men on the Dead Man's Chest was a poem ...describing the fate of the crew on a ship wrecked on the infamous Dead Man's Chest, a reef close to the island of Tortola in the eastern Caribbean...Allison used the lines from Stevenson's Treasure Island story to retell the folk legend...

During the 1500's Dead Man's Chest was an island rendezvous in the Caribbean of buccaneers and smugglers and it's where Stevenson set the scene for Treasure Island. It was while drawing a map with a young boy named Lloyd that Stevenson came up with the idea of writing Treasure Island and whether this was a traditional sea shanty or a fictional creation by Robert Louis Stevenson uncertain. The classic story revolves around the relationships of respectful gentlemen and carefree buccaneers. In it Stevenson cleverly refuses to define these opposing moral forces. It was the Stevenson's pirate ditty that appears in Chapter 1 on page ten of his novel that Allison expanded on:

"Fifteen men on the dead man's chest-- Yo-ho-ho, and

a bottle of rum! Drink and the devil had done for the rest--

Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!"

Stevenson intended the rhyme as a forewarning of the events in his tale. In the novel the sailors sing about a dead man's chest before the adventure has even begun, and almost all of them by the end are quite dead. Good and the bad are entwined together and at the heart of it all is the relationship between the dastardly pirate Long John Silver and the novel's honorable young hero, Jim Hawkins..Stevenson conjures up doubts of fulfillment for many of his characters. The treasure map leads to an empty hole, which becomes figurative of how one can lose their soul in the pursuit of some imagined treasures. Gluttony and senselessness lead only to fatality, failures, and frustration....

Poet Allison creates plenty of violent and gruesome images within his musings of Treasure Island... Young Ewing Allison added his gruesome lyrics in 1891, and a Broadway musical version of Treasure Island opened in 1901 with an extended version of the song credited to Allison and Waller. In 1967 writers for Walt Disney Xavier Atencio & George Bruns merged the song and story into the ever-popular sea ditty Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me). For anyone who's ever traversed the Pirates of the Caribbean ride has heard the tune that retells Stevenson's saga, what thrilling memories it conjures up to hear "Dead Men Tell No Tales!" as an Ahoy there! homage to the Derelict and Treasure Island. Here's to three generations and more to come of legends about pirates that went "Arrr" and "Yo Ho Ho!"

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

Dead Man's Chest is located in the Virgin Islands, a small island off of Peter Island, near Tortola. It's just outside of Deadman's Bay, and is today called Dead Chest Island, an uninhabited National Park. Dead Chest Island reputedly got its name when the notorious Blackbeard, after a mutiny, put 15 men ashore on this island with only a bottle of rum--hence the song: "15 men on a dead man's chest, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum."

Another site mentions this:

Pirate fans will find the tiny islet Dead Chest huge in skull-and-crossbone lore. A Pirates of the Caribbean major scene is based on what happened on Dead Chest. That's where Blackbeard supposedly marooned 15 rebel pirates who had to make do with only a most inadequate survival kit that comprised only a cutlass and a keg of rotgut rum. Their grisly deaths gave rise to the world's best-known sea shanty that begins:

" Fifteen men on a dead man's chest

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

Drink and the Devil have done the rest..."

Here's a site with a map, so ye can get yer bearings: http://www.orcasailing.com/peter_island.html

das

[Fox]

Kingsley's At Last only mentions "Dead Man's Chest" once, as one of the Virgin Islands and never as a song.

The origins of the song lie I'm sure with the fragments provided by RLS and no earlier. It is possible that he was influenced by a legend of Blackbeard, but I suspect that diligent research would probably reveal the legend to have come after the song.

I too have known Cindy Vallar online for a number of years and would trust her on the whole to check her facts, but nobody is infallible. Her new site is one of many for example to contain the story of the fictional Charlotte de Berry, and the Johnson article is clearly twaddle. For a start the RN doesn't have, and has never had, "Ensigns", except in the sense of flags. A USN officer making something up might have included RN Ensigns in his story, but a USN officer who had seen the original documents certainly wouldn't.

Finally, I think it's probably a bit off the mark to call "Fifteen Men" the most famous shanty ever. Certainly is was used as a shanty by the crew of the Hispaniola, but I don't think it was ever a shanty outside the world of Treasure Island.

[dasNdanger]

Kingsley's At Last only mentions "Dead Man's Chest" once, as one of the Virgin Islands and never as a song.

The origins of the song lie I'm sure with the fragments provided by RLS and no earlier. It is possible that he was influenced by a legend of Blackbeard, but I suspect that diligent research would probably reveal the legend to have come after the song.

Foxe, I think...from what I glean from all I've read here and elsewhere, that the Dead Man's Chest 'timeline' is something like this:

1500's - unnamed island haven for pirates

c.1713-1718 Blackbeard 'supposedly' marooned several men on this island. Whether fact or fiction no one knows, BUT this rumored event led to the formerly unnamed island to be called 'Dead Man's Island' or 'Dead Chest Island'.

Sometime before 1883, Stevenson 'discovered' Dead Chest Island while looking over maps, and was inspired to write Treasure Island, in which he penned: "Fifteen men on a dead man's chest , Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. "

After 1883 and before 1901, Young E. Allison wrote a poem based on that one line from Treasure Island, and LOOSLY based on the book itself.

1901 - A song, based on Allison's poem, was featured in a musical based on Treasure Island.

The latter information is pretty accurate, it's the use of 'Dead Chest' Island as a pirate haven and punishment arena that is debateable.

das

[Fox]

If I may apply some logic (bear with me here) to this conundrum:

RLS specifically says in his letter of 1884 (quoted by Deacon Frye) "T. I. came out of Kingsley's AT LAST, where I got the Dead Man's Chest "

Kingsley's AT LAST, does NOT mention anything about 15 men, drink and the devil, Blackbeard, marooning or anything remotely connected with the song. It only mentions Dead Man's Chest once, in a list of islands.

Therefore, Stevenson was NOT influenced in his composition of the song by any myth regarding Blackbeard, neither was he influenced by an earlier song whose existence has escaped us.

In short, RLS made up the lines "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest, Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum". Stevenson was not aware of any legend regarding Blackbeard marooning 15 men on the island. Therefore one of two things must have happened; either RLS made up a song off the top of his head which just happened to coincide exactly with an historical legend he knew nothing about, OR the legend of Blackbeard marooning 15 men originated after the publication of Treasure Island.

OK, so the coincidence theory is just about possible, but you'd have to be pretty desperate I think to really believe it.

A further important point: Stevenson wrote "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest..." with no capitalisation. He was not making reference to the island at all! He had merely come across the name and thought it might make a good song.

So, unless my logic is all wrong a slightly revised timeline:

1500's - unnamed island haven for pirates

Sometime before 1883, Stevenson 'discovered' Dead Chest Island while looking over maps, and was inspired to write Treasure Island, in which he penned: "Fifteen men on a dead man's chest , Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. "

After 1883 and before 1901, Young E. Allison wrote a poem based on that one line from Treasure Island, and LOOSLY based on the book itself.

1901 - A song, based on Allison's poem, was featured in a musical based on Treasure Island.

Unknown date after 1883 - Someone started the legend, based on Stevenson's lines that Blackbeard 'supposedly' marooned several men on this island. Whether fact or fiction, this event almost certainly had nothing at all to do with the naming of the island.

[dasNdanger]

RLS specifically says in his letter of 1884 (quoted by Deacon Frye) "T. I. came out of Kingsley's AT LAST, where I got the Dead Man's Chest "

Kingsley's AT LAST, does NOT mention anything about 15 men, drink and the devil, Blackbeard, marooning or anything remotely connected with the song. It only mentions Dead Man's Chest once, in a list of islands.

Therefore, Stevenson was NOT influenced in his composition of the song by any myth regarding Blackbeard, neither was he influenced by an earlier song whose existence has escaped us.

Your logic is just fine and dandy, except you forgot one very important thing, mate... :)

I SWEAR I never suggested that Stevenson based his little 'poem' on anything to do with Blackbeard. (That be some of the 'historians' doin's, and LORD knows, I'm nuffink of the kind...)

What I did suggest is that the Blackbeard 'legend' lead to the naming of the island, and Stevenson took the name of the island and incorporated it into the 'poem' he included in Treasure Island. I'm right with ya on thinking that the details of the dirty deeds in Blackbeard's legend came much later (before or after Treause Island I'm not sure) , and had little, if any, bearing on Stevenson's tale. I also doubt there was ever a real shanty or fo'c'sle song with these words before Stevenson penned them. Had there been such a shanty or song prior to Treasure Island, I'm sure that - by the mid to late 1800's - it would have been well-documented by then. But since there is no other reference to such song, it's fairly obvious that those opening words to it were Stevenson's invention. Besides, he ONLY wrote a few lines of the poem anyway. It was ALLISON (and another writer whose name eludes me at the moment) who actually wrote the poem/song that I posted in full above, NOT Stevenson or anyone else. That poem/song was written AFTER Treasure Island was published, and is what was featured in the (unnamed) musical of 1901.

Bottom line, I agree wif ya (and pirates WERE sailors first!), I just wanted to clarify that I'm not in the 'Stevenson was inspired by Blackbeard' camp - not without firm proof, that is.

das

[Fox]

I SWEAR I never suggested that Stevenson based his little 'poem' on anything to do with Blackbeard

I swear I didn't mean to imply that YOU did, but that seemed to be a general feeling of possibility running through this thread.

What I did suggest is that the Blackbeard 'legend' lead to the naming of the island

Now that's where I gotta disagree with you, kinda. The Blackbeard legend seems inextricably tied up with the song, and if the song has its origins in 1883 then the legend must post-date that. However, we know the island was named earlier. If we take the elements that are common to legend and song out of the legend what are we left with? Blackbeard marooned one or more people on an island somewhere. In that case, why "Dead Man's Chest", or "Dead Chest Island"? Why not just "Dead Man's Island", "Dead Men Island", or "Marooner Island"? If you remove the song from the legend it loses its coherence, and if you don't remove it it loses its credibility. Either way, I don't think the Blackbeard legend has anything to do with either the naming of the island or the song - I think it post-dates Treasure Island. However, the only way to prove it would be to find a pre-Blackbeard reference to the island by its traditional name. Anyone got a 17th century waggoner handy?

I'm in complete agreement with you about the song not being a "proper" shanty. I didn't want to say the same myself because I knew someone would say "just because we don't know about it doesn't mean it was never sung..." and someone probably still will. But since you've said it I agree entirely. It's not in any of the major works on shanties (Hugill, Whall etc) and it's not in the Bodlean collection of songs and ballads (which contains literally thousands), and as far as I know there is no mention of such a song anywhere at all prior to RLS. Apart from that, it might have been sung...

[dasNdanger]

I swear I didn't mean to imply that YOU did, but that seemed to be a general feeling of possibility running through this thread.

No worries, I be bustin' yer chops, mate!!

What I did suggest is that the Blackbeard 'legend' lead to the naming of the island

Now that's where I gotta disagree with you, kinda. The Blackbeard legend seems inextricably tied up with the song, and if the song has its origins in 1883 then the legend must post-date that. However, we know the island was named earlier.

Okayokayokay...lemme think a sec.... *thinks...smokes comes out ears...head hurts...*

Okay - the 'song' doesn't say anything about Blackbeard, right?? The song was written as a poem first (by Allison, then later appeared in the musical - both of which are BASED ON Treasure Island - NOT on Blackbeard's legend. SOOO....it is safe to say that the poem/song has nothing to do with Blackbeard. Following me so far...??

GAH!! And WHY can't I get 6 Nations Rugby HERE???!!! *sigh* *watches Brumbies and Crusaders repeat match* Guess the southern hemi games are all I'll get this year - again...

Sorry - went OT there for a sec...

Anyway, I think the Blackbeard legend isn't tied up with the song/poem, but with the ISLAND.

So, if the Island got named during or shortly after Blackbeard's time, based on 'legend' of marooning...WHAT IF there were no specifics of the supposed marooning? What if it was once suggested that, sometime in the early 1700's, Blackbeard marooned SOME men on that island, and the island was thus referred to as Dead Man's or Dead Chest Island? Then, later - AFTER Treasure Island and Allison's extended poem based on the book, people started to suggest that it was about Blackbeard, and they just filled in the details of the old legend? Either way, it's all just guess work on their part, and on ours.

The island could have been named 'Dead Chest' before any Blackbeard legend appeared - but it seems from everything I've looked at so far, that the name is directly associated with Blackbeard, indicating there was some connection between that Island and Teach. Gah - I think I'm talking in circles and confusing myself!! I like it much better when you explain things and I just keep my mouth shut...

das

[Fox]

I get what you're saying Das.

I'd like to see some evidence as to when the island was named. It just seems unlikely that it had anything to do with Blackbeard to me - no evidence for that, just a feeling. The story seems to "neat", the naming of Blackbeard rather than any other pirate sets alarm bells ringing in my mind, and I really don't see any reason why the island should have been named after a Blackbeard incident. If there were some indication that the legend originated before publication of Kingsley's "At Last" it would be better, but it seems most likely that actually the legend only came about after the publication of "Treasure Island". Anyway, without real evidence this could go on forever.

Don't worry too much about missing the 6 Nations, all the teams have been playing sub-standard this year. Hardly worth watching.

[Red Maria]

Well Blackbeard did maroon a good number of his crew shortly after his blockade of Charleston Harbor at Beaufort Inlet (among the marooned was Stede Bonnet). So although the Deadman's Chest incident maybe just a legend Blackbeard doing such a thing is not impossible. Once a marooner always a morrner (maybe ) Although highly improable it is nonetheless not impossible. Or perhaps somone overlaped the Beaufort Island incident with Deadman's Chest?

[dasNdanger]

Don't worry too much about missing the 6 Nations, all the teams have been playing sub-standard this year. Hardly worth watching.

Awwww...yer just sayin' that 'cause Wales WHUPPED England's fann...oh, wait...that word has a TOTALLY different meaning across the pond...

Well, still searching for a general date when 'Dead Chest Island' go its name by looking over old maps (found a TERRIFIC site FULL of great links!!)...

here's a map from 1823 that shows 'The Dead Chest' - I am still looking for an older map (hopefully before 1700) showing this island with THAT name...but so far, no luck. There are tons of accessable maps through this site, so if anyone is feeling esp. adventurous...

MAP: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...r/deadchest.jpg

SITE FOR EARLY MAPS:

http://www.rism.org/lcr/at_the_LCR/earlymaps.htm

http://www.maphistory.info/imagesoutham.html

INFO on DRAKE (some EARLY maps): http://international.loc.gov/intldl/drakeh...bSubjects1.html

*goes back to do more research...*

EDIT: Found another map, this one from 1733 that shows 'Dead Chest': http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...adchest1733.jpg

das

[blackjohn]

You might want to check a geonames database. Sadly, it is outside of US waters, otherwise the USGS GNIS database might be of use. And I just checked the NGA database but only found this.

A good old-fashioned gazateer might shed some light (or dredge up more questions!).

And... I'm sure the UK Hydrographic Office must have a geonames database. Try finding it and maybe they'll have some useful info.

(btw, haven't been following this thread, just popped my head in to see what was up.)

[dasNdanger]

What I find to be VERY irritating is that most sites are saying 'yo ho ho and a bottle of rum' was inspired by Blackbeard's legendary dirty deed, when it really originates in the pages of Treasure Island, over a 150 years later. I thought it only applies to the characters/events in the book, not in anything else. And it was really Allison who wrote entire poem, and that's about a derelict ship, not an island. Now bear with me...I've only been researching this for a couple of weeks, so I don't know all that much about Stevenson's inspiration for Treasure Island, so I have a question:

Did Stevenson EVER say that he based ANY of his story or the 'yo ho ho' poem on Blackbeard's legend??

Once I get an answer to that, I'll finish me thoughts...

das

[Red Maria]

You try one of the editions of his letters. There are several editions here at work but I don't have the time to check . I'm not sure if there are any editions of a journal by him or not but that's another place were you'd find that information.

[dasNdanger]

Well, I'm exhausted!! Just got back fromt he library and really didn't find out anything new, except I did find reference to 'Dead Man's Chest Island' in one 1962 book about the islands of the world, and only mentioned that some islands had names that reflected their popularity with 17th century pirates. Also, England (Britain) has had control of Tortola since 1666, possibly suggesting that any surrounding islands (including Norman Island ("Treasure Island"), Peter Island, and Dead Chest Island) may have been named around that time.

The more I research, the more I think The Blackbeard connection to 'yo ho ho and a bottle of rum' is in complete error. Many sites directly attribut the line '15 men on a dead man's chest' to the marooning of Blackbeard's men, not even acknowledging that it was Stevenson who penned those words 150 years later!

Other references mention that Norman Island was Stevenson's Treasure Island, but then they make no reference to Blackbeard.

So it seems to me that there is a mass of internet confusion that is fast becoming 'fact', and people are confusing Stevenson's (and Allison's) literary work with the legend of Blackbeard marooning his crew. And NOW they are adding the Jack Sparrow's marooning in POTC to the myth, too...saying that it was inspired by Blackbeard's actions on Dead Chest Island!!

GAAAAHHH!!!!

life was so much simpler before the net ushered in the information age....

das