Help with Clothing Authentification

[Matty Bottles]

Hello there, everybody. I wondered is anyone out there could help me with determing if the short, double breasted wollen sailor's jacker pattern from Kannick's Korner (a similar style jacket is available from JAS Townsend) would be appropriate for a golden age pirate impression (~1720.) The literature seems to place it around the Am Rev War, or, at the very earliest, the F&I War. Also, I wondered about the historical propriety of the half-waistcoat - long in front, and short in back. Is that accurate, or a hollywood money saver? Thank you.

[Hawkyns]

That double breasted jacket (Gunner's Jacket ??) does not appear that early that I've ever found. I'm not even sure it's good for F&I. Much more likely is the sleeved waistcoat. The sleeved waistdoat is very similar to a single breasted peacoat or bumfreezer. Being looser on the body, it is easier to work in.

The waistcoat that is long in front (thigh length) and waist length in back is definitely correct. I've seen it variously described as being for riding or working. For riding, your coat is split in the rear, and your waistcaot short, so you don't get them stuck between you and the saddle. it's also described as being for workmen, again, so that the tails don't get in the way. Either way, it's documentable and period for the early 18th C.

Hawkyns

[Matty Bottles]

Thank you, Hawkins. My regular sources don't deal with such "low" garments as the wool coat and the Royal Navy historical site was of no use whatsoever, since they apparently didn't even standardize uniforms until the 20th century.

[Slopmaker Cripps]

Ok......

No, Double breasted jackets are not accurate for the 1720's period. The majority of jackets were of the "1690's sailors jacket" style. They were mid-thigh length, usually had 12 buttons (but amount varied) going all the way to the hem, pockets set lower than the waist, mariner cuffs, etc. All this is based off an in-depth study of original paintings, drawings etc. (not the shit by Howard Pyle and the other 19th century "artists" who didn't know what they were talking about).

Now, specifically on the double breasted jackets. The earliest accounts of double breasted jackets that I have found are in the 1730's. Even then, they are quite rare, but they were around. Some examples include:

Virginia Gazette

(Parks), Williamsburg ,

From June 10 to June 17, 1737 .

RAN away from Mr. Theophilus Pugh, Merchant, and Mr. Robert Blackledge, of Nansemond County, Two Servants, the One named Thomas Davis, a Bricklayer, belonging to the said Pugh; the other named John Shaw, a Black-Smith. The said Thomas Davis was born in Wales, but talks tolerable English, and is a middle-siz'd, well set Man, about Twenty Four Years of Age, and is much pock-fretten, and somewhat swarthy, with short dark Hair; and carried with him a plad Kersey double Breasted Coat , a striped Flannel and a short white Flannel Wastecoat, Two pair of large Oznabrigs Trowzers, Two new checkt Shirts, and a new Pair of Shoes. The said John Shaw was born in Yorkshire, and served his Time in Leverpool; he is a middle-siz'd, well-made Man, of a dark Complexion, without Hair ; and wore when he went away, a Pair of Oznabrigs Trowzers, a Linen checkt Shirt, burnt full of Holes before. The said Runaways were seen going down Nansemond River, on Sunday se'nnight, in a Perriauger. If any Person or Persons shall take the said Runaways or either of them, so as they shall be brought to the Subscribers in Nansemond County, shall be paid Two Pistoles for each of them, besides what the Law allows.

Virginia Gazette

(Parks), Williamsburg ,

From June 2 to June 9, 1738.

RAN away from the Subscriber the 8th Day of May, a Servant Man named Peter Ridgeway, a Cheshire Man, a lusty sanguine Fellow, with a good Head of black Hair, curld at the Ends, has a stooping long Step, and goes a right Plowman's Gait; speaks the Country Dialect, terminating his Accents in inck instead of ing. He had with him a Suit of blewish grey Druggett, a dark Kersey Coat, lin'd with red Baise, a double-breasted light colour'd Ditto, brown Jacket and Breeches of Plains, lin'd with Oznabrigs, several Pair of Stockings, several Shirts, and a Sheet for a Bag to carry his Things. He rode away a small siz'd Chesnut colour'd Horse, branded on the near Buttock C P, and on the near Shoulder JL. He is a Carter, Plowman, and Husbandman, has the Air of Plainess and Sincerity in his Countenance and Speech. Whoever secures the said Servant so that he may be safely return'd to me at my House in Richmond County, shall receive Five Pounds Reward of

John Tayloe. N.B. He had a new Postillian Saddle.

Virginia Gazette

(Parks), Williamsburg ,

February 2 to February 9, 1738 [1739].

RUN away from Capt. Robert Dudley, of King and Queen County, on the Fourth of this Instant February, a Servant Man, named Cornelius Maddin; he is an Irishman, of pretily [sic] low Stature, but very well sat, of a dark Complexion, with short black Hair, but somewhat grey with Age. He carried with him two check Shirts, one of them pieced at the Sleeves with white Linen, and both patched with white Cotton, a Pair of old green Breeches, two old dark colour'd double-breasted Kersey Coats, a Wastecoat laced with a Leather String, one Half thick Wastecoat, with Hooks and Eyes, instead of Buttons, a Pair of Virginia Yarn Stockings and Shoes. Also an outlandish Negro Man, named Phil. Has been in the Country about 4 Years, speaks broken English clothed with white Plains, white Yarn Stockings, and plain Shoes. Whoever will secure the said Servant and Slave, so that their Master may have them again, shall be handsomely rewarded, over and above what the Law allows.

Virginia Gazette

(Parks), Williamsburg ,

From June 29 to July 6, 1739.

July 6, 1739 RAN away from the Subscriber, in Westmoreland County, the Second of this Inst. two Servant Men viz. Richard Kibble, a squat well set Fellow, of a swarthy Complexion. His Apparel is a brownish colour'd Coat, a green double breasted Jacket, a check'd Shirt, a red spotted Silk Handkerchief about his Neck, a black natural Wig, a good Hat with a black Crape about it, a Pair of greasy Leather Breeches, a Pair of grey Worsted Stocking, and a Pair of good Shoes; has a great many Letters and Figures on his Breast and Left Arm, some in red and some in black, the End of his Nose turns up pretty much, and professes to be a Carpenter and Joiner by Trade: He is a Convict, and came in last year in the Forward Galley, of London; but made his Escape home, and was convicted again this Year upon Six new Indictments; he staid with his Master but Three Days before he went away again. The other named Samuel Vlin, a small thin Fellow, of a swarthy Complexion. His apparel is a dark brown Coat, and a white Cloth Coat with a Cape, a white Jacket flower'd on the Breast with green Silk, a white Linen Shirt, a black Wig, an old Hat, a Pair of red Camblet Breeches, two Pair of Oznabrig Trowsers, a Pair of white Stockings, and a Pair of old Shoes; is a Carpenter and Joiner by Trade: He is a Convict, and came in last Year in the Forward Galley. They went away in Company with several others, and took with them a Petty-auger belonging to the Hon. Thomas Lee, Esq; and are suppos'd to be gone to Accomack, in order to travel to the Northward. Whoever takes up the said Runaways, or either of them, on this Side of the Bay, so that their Master may have them again, shall have a Pistole Reward for each, besides what the Law allows; and if taken on the Eastern Shore, or out of the Colony, shall have Five Pistoles Reward for each, paid by

William Walker.

Virginia Gazette

(Parks), Williamsburg ,

From August 3 to August 10, 1739.

July 31, 1739. RAN away, the 24th of this Instant July, 1739, from the Subscriber, living in Prince William County, Virginia, a Servant Man, nam'd Robert Pebworth, a Weaver, aged about 23, of a middle Stature, thin Visage, pale Complexion, and dark brown Hair; he has a small Scar in his Forehead, pointing towards his Eyebrow: He had, when he went away, an old Dowlas Shirt, a Pair of Oznabrig Trowsers, Pumps, brown Worsted Stockings, an old Felt Hat, which he commonly wears with Two Cocks, and the Peak behind, a short blew Frize Jacket, which has been double-breasted, but the Buttons have been cut off one Side, and the Holes sewed up on the other, the Sleeves of the Jacket open on the Sides, and with a Slope, and Buttons. He also carried with him two fine shirts, and about 25 or 30 Shillings in Money, in a blew flowr'd Sattin Purse; it's thought he has more money with him in Gold; and that he has wrote himself a Pass. Whoever secures the said Servant, so that I may have him again, shall have a Pistole Reward, and all reasonable Charges, besides what the Law allows, paid by me.

Francis Searson.

Virginia Gazette

(Parks), Williamsburg ,

May 2 to May 9, 1745.

RAN away, on the 17th of April last, from the Subscriber in Caroline County, a lusty, tawney Negro Man, nam'd Will; he is hollow-chested, stoops in the Shoulders a little, and is about 30 Years old. Also a small Mulatto Man, nam'd Peter, aged about 21 Years; well known by the Gentlemen in the Country, for keeping of Horses. He always has a great Quid of Tobacco in his Mouth. He had with him a Pair of Pumps, a Check Shirt, a brown double breasted Coat, and a Felt Hat. Whoever takes up and conveys them, or either of them, to my House in the County aforesaid, shall have a Pistole Reward, for each.

Henry Armistead. N.B. I desire each Constable to give them 20 Lashes.

So, in short, the double breasted coats were around. But they weren't common, and aren't recommended for a sailors impression unless you use it for I'd say circa 1760 and up. For the period of 1690-1730 I'd recommend a sleeved waistcoat or a 1690's style sailors jacket. And just cause it's called a 1690's style jacket it was actually very common over the whole period.

Hope this helped. I don't peruse this board a lot, so if you need any help, just email me at provincialnavy@yahoo.com

Cheers,

Adam Cripps

Slopmaker

"The Fish-Broth Society"

[Capt. Flint]

A great source for doc. on clothing... 20,000 years in fashion. It's a bit of an expensive book, but, has a great deal of info. on all clothing....