patterns

[blackjohn]

Okay, so I'm someone's hero now. . . that's a bit weird. Me, a hero? When did that happen? I must have missed the email. . . 

If anything I say winds up inspiring people to sew more, I'm a happy girl! Good luck sewing with that wool, blackjohn. Post photos so we can see how it's coming along.

Weird... nah... just unexpected!

As for making a new coat, I'd really like to do it. My current coat, the dark blue one I'm wearing in the pics on my group's site, was really meant to be a proto-type. But it came out so well that it was good enough to wear. Must've been first time lucky, since I had never made a pattern before. I enlarged the "Coat, c. 1700" from Norah Waugh's book on the photocopier at work (I'm a nautical cartographer, at the time we had a 36" wide copier) up to 1:1 scale. Then I cut it out and did some test fittings with the paper. After figuring out the coat must've been made for someone 5' tall, I added a few inches here and there, and... it worked!!!

I figure at this point, since I have a working pattern, half the battle is won.

Blackjohn

[AkashaZuul]

I'm not even going to go into how jealous I am about that copier!!! I love Norah Waugh's book, and I've got one of the coats on the list of things to sew this summer. Scott needs something fancy for the Buccaneer's Ball in October (and for Halloween! I mean, why spend all that time making pirate costumes if You can't wear them for Halloween?).

I totally scored last week. Some nice lady who used to be a student at the Fashion Institute sold all her pattern drafting and draping books to me for a wee $20. I now have a 2 foot high stack of books about creating your own patterns, fitting your muslin, how to alter patterns, how to size up patterns using commercial measurements, drafting your own pattners, draping your own patterns, etc. . . . If I had more time, I would have read them all cover to cover already I am so excited!

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to wear to the KLA/Tencor picnic on Saturday so I don't fry. . . Pirate clothes are hot, in all senses.

[blackjohn]

I'm not even going to go into how jealous I am about that copier!!! I love Norah Waugh's book, and I've got one of the coats on the list of things to sew this summer. Scott needs something fancy for the Buccaneer's Ball in October (and for Halloween! I mean, why spend all that time making pirate costumes if You can't wear them for Halloween?).

I totally scored last week. Some nice lady who used to be a student at the Fashion Institute sold all her pattern drafting and draping books to me for a wee $20. I now have a 2 foot high stack of books about creating your own patterns, fitting your muslin, how to alter patterns, how to size up patterns using commercial measurements, drafting your own pattners, draping your own patterns, etc. . . . If I had more time, I would have read them all cover to cover already I am so excited!

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to wear to the KLA/Tencor picnic on Saturday so I don't fry. . . Pirate clothes are hot, in all senses.

We don't have the copier anymore. Now we have a 36" wide scanner connected to a 36" wide printer. And I haven't even used it yet. I should get some practice in by scanning those patterns.

If I can get it to work, would you be interested in copies?

That sounds like quite a haul of book booty. Congrats!!!

As for hot... very true. But hey, pirate is not so bad... try wearing three layers of wool and two layers of linen while carrying a pack, musket, and cartridge box, in 103° heat with close to 100% humidity... aaaah, Maryland in the summer.

But I'll think cool thoughts for ya... of a nice iced rum punch maybe!

Blackjohn

[Captain Raevon Morgan]

As for hot... very true. But hey, pirate is not so bad... try wearing three layers of wool and two layers of linen while carrying a pack, musket, and cartridge box, in 103° heat with close to 100% humidity... aaaah, Maryland in the summer.

Blackjohn

Blackjohn, I know the feeling of heat in the summer of pirates and wenches. I am in Florida so I know what heat is.

This "thread" continues to impress me. I just got done sewing uniforms and clothing for the Siege of Savannah in October. And I have more to do. I am so glad that Simplicity has come out with their costuming patterns for people. I use original patterns that have been redrafted (so I do not ruin the originals) and I use those. And some days, I want to impale myself.

I now someone mentioned they lived in the Keys and could not get good fabric. I use M.J. Kahn, Co. Very good quality of wool. They import from England I believe. Does not frey like most wools. And they are highly recommended from other seamstress' and tailors. I wasn't sure if he/she was still looking for the information.

[blackjohn]

That's the 225th for the Seige of Savannah? I really should do more revwar again...

As for wool... the old revwar unit I was in placed an order from a mill in ol' Blighty that has been making wool for a couple hundred years. That was some VERY nice wool. VERY nice. My portion was going to become an officers coat. At the time I was an ensign (sometimes corporal), but my only coat was line infantry quality.

But one thing led to another and I stopped doing revwar. So the wool just sat around.

Then one day we needed wool for a jollyroger. And that VERY expensive white wool (it was for the coat's lining) became a skull and wings.

Swinging back on course to patterns... my friend Kass has an online pattern shop: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/

Though I have not used them, I trust her. And she's planning on doing late 1600s - early 1700s patterns soon!

Blackjohn

[Captain Raevon Morgan]

That's the 225th for the Seige of Savannah? I really should do more revwar again...

As for wool... the old revwar unit I was in placed an order from a mill in ol' Blighty that has been making wool for a couple hundred years. That was some VERY nice wool. VERY nice. My portion was going to become an officers coat. At the time I was an ensign (sometimes corporal), but my only coat was line infantry quality.

But one thing led to another and I stopped doing revwar. So the wool just sat around.

Then one day we needed wool for a jollyroger. And that VERY expensive white  wool (it was for the coat's lining) became a skull and wings.

Swinging back on course to patterns... my friend Kass has an online pattern shop: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/

Though I have not used them, I trust her. And she's planning on doing late 1600s - early 1700s patterns soon!

Blackjohn

Yep, the 225th of Savannah.

But anyway, I just checked out your friends website. She has nice patterns.

One of the best I have seen on the internet is The Recollections of J.P. Ryan. These patterns are very well done and they can be use for the modern figure of men and women. For women, the stays are magnificant.

I will give caution since I am not sure if anyone has used these patterns or the level of experience for the tailors and seamstress'. DO NOT use Harriet Engler's patterns. Most of her patterns are for the well experienced and if you are; you will impale yourself. She skips directions and none of her things fit properly unless some manipulations occur. She does not have many 17th c. or 18th c. stuff. Just wanted to put in my two cents worth.

[AkashaZuul]

We don't have the copier anymore. Now we have a 36" wide scanner connected to a 36" wide printer. And I haven't even used it yet. I should get some practice in by scanning those patterns.

If I can get it to work, would you be interested in copies?

I would love copies, Black John! Now I'd have to figure out of what. . . probably stuff out of Waugh. I'm a lazy pirate, and would find it easier to just make adjustments to a full-sized pattern than drawing it on butcher paper from scratch. 36" printer. . . how cool is that?

So far my favorite historical pattern has been Period Impressions polonaise gown (adjusting the straight back seams to curved). I'm about to try their saque-back gown pattern as well for a Halloween gown. J.P. Ryan's patterns are pretty okay, and I really want to try the Robe a l' Anglaise, but I can't agree on the stays pattern. I've tried every commercial stays/corset pattern, and until I sat down and drafted myself one from Corsets and Crinolines, they all fit me badly. Maybe I'm too picky about fit? I believe Ryan's pattern actually has good instructions for fitting, but the actual look of the finished stays just isn't very attractive. I think they're designed for more lower to middle-class costumes, and have a more tubular rather than conical shape, and no straps. : ( I'm going to have to go find it downstairs and remind myself of why I was unhappy with it.

I guess after working with corsets in the victorian style so much, I've gotten to the point where it's just easier to slap fabric on someone and draw the pattern lines there to make sure the bits all fit!

Who ever thought squishing people's flab around in uncomfortable ways was fashionable, anyway?

[Captain Raevon Morgan]

I guess after working with corsets in the victorian style so much, I've gotten to the point where it's just easier to slap fabric on someone and draw the pattern lines there to make sure the bits all fit!

Who ever thought squishing people's flab around in uncomfortable ways was fashionable, anyway?

Well, I agree with you about the squishing in the modern body types into clothing of a smaller century is not fun!! I am beginning to see why the women had health problems. BTW, a man invented the corset and stays. Go figure!

I have used many patterns over the years for stays and corsets. And I have made the JP Ryan one and I have made a Pegree of Williamsburg stay. I found both of them well done but I do not think you are picky at all. We have to wear them and we have to be comfy in them! LOL I am picky because I have ben called the "Stitch Nazi" many times. So I will use different patterns for people since re-enactors can be a bit anal about their impression.

If you would like a stapped stay, try this link Harper House. They have a listing of many patterns and they have a pattern for sale of the strapped stays. I have not done this stay but if you are looking for a strapped one; there ya go.

[AkashaZuul]

I believe those are the Mantua Maker stays, another failed project since they didn't come close to fitting at the size they suggested. HOWEVER. . . . the instructions for making period stays using original fabrics and methods is very cool to read through. The drawing on the front was so cool, I had to buy it. Bummer they don't look quite that good when made!

The Great Pattern Review at http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/ is quite the great read-through. I like seeing what people tried, succeeded, and failed at before I buy a pattern.

Although I figure a strapless tube shape is probably more comfy to wear to events, I just really love the conical style like what Ian the Staymaker has here.

http://www.geocities.com/staymaker/gallery.htm

I want to do the Fustian front-lacing stays in red silk duchesse as my next attempt!!!

Yeah sure okay right after my bloody tendonitis gets better. Just found out today that I have to cut down on computers and sewing for a few weeks.

[Captain Raevon Morgan]

The Great Pattern Review at http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/ is quite the great read-through. I like seeing what people tried, succeeded, and failed at before I buy a pattern.

Although I figure a strapless tube shape is probably more comfy to wear to events, I just really love the conical style like what Ian the Staymaker has here.

http://www.geocities.com/staymaker/gallery.htm

I want to do the Fustian front-lacing stays in red silk duchesse as my next attempt!!!

Yeah sure okay right after my bloody tendonitis gets better. Just found out today that I have to cut down on computers and sewing for a few weeks.

I have seen the Great Pattern Review. Some of it is quite informative but I am like you, I like to see what people have tried.

A friend of mine sent me a Harriet Engler strapped stay. I need to check it out. I know I said I'd rather impale myself but since I did not pay for it. LOL

I would love to have a Fustian stay. I have always liked those. Any good pattern for one??

I hope your tendonitis gets better soon.

[Captain Raevon Morgan]

I have seen the Great Pattern Review. Some of it is quite informative but I am like you, I like to see what people have tried.

A friend of mine sent me a Harriet Engler strapped stay. I need to check it out. I know I said I'd rather impale myself but since I did not pay for it. LOL

I would love to have a Fustian stay. I have always liked those. Any good pattern for one??

I hope your tendonitis gets better soon.

[blackjohn]

We don't have the copier anymore. Now we have a 36" wide scanner connected to a 36" wide printer. And I haven't even used it yet. I should get some practice in by scanning those patterns.

Or

If I can get it to work, would you be interested in copies?

I would love copies, Black John! Now I'd have to figure out of what. . . probably stuff out of Waugh. I'm a lazy pirate, and would find it easier to just make adjustments to a full-sized pattern than drawing it on butcher paper from scratch. 36" printer. . . how cool is that?

Righto! It won't be this week, but I'll try to get to it soon. I'm leaning toward the coat on pages 60-61 of Waugh's book.

Or... I'm tempted to scan the Park's Canada "book" Man's Coat, 1730-1750. Are you familiar with it? It's an over-sized pamphlet about 12 pages in length, with a pattern and construction notes.

Blackjohn

[blackjohn]

The Great Pattern Review at http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/ is quite the great read-through. I like seeing what people tried, succeeded, and failed at before I buy a pattern.

Wow! I've never seen that. The internet... what a cool thing...

Blackjohn

[blackjohn]

But anyway, I just checked out your friends website. She has nice patterns.

I should send her this way... She'd probably enjoy this pattern thread.

[blackjohn]

For those unfamiliar with Waugh's book here are some scans on my friend Kass' page.

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/17thc...frockcoats.html

OH! Under the Crews section of this forum you'll find a link to a coat pattern I scanned today. One set of links is to tif files, best to ignore those and go down through the messages until you get to the one that points to the gif files.

Blackjohn

[kass]

I should send her this way... She'd probably enjoy this pattern thread.

You're right, Blackjohn. I am! :)

Regarding corset/stays patterns fitting or not fitting: You're not picky, AkashaZuul. Patterns are made to fit average sizes. For most clothing, getting in the ballpark is good enough. But for something as close-fitting as stays, it's imperitive that it fits *you*, not just your measurements. One of my best friends and I have the same bust, waist and side (underarm to waist) measurements, but she's a D and I'm a B. But our measurements are the same.

As a custom clothing maker who's started a pattern business, let me tell you, it's a challenge to fit everyone! But stays are the hardest. Everyone has one hip that's higher or they slouch or any myriad of things that patterns can't take into consideration.

Next time you set out to make a set of stays, try this trick. Cut out the pattern in your size, but cut it out of bristol board or poster board instead of scrap fabric. Tape the board stays on and move around in them. Cut away where they pinch you, making sure not to cut too much. Then cut your good fabric using the board pattern, not the tissue. This will give you a set of stays that fit you perfectly.

And I LOVE the red duchesse idea! You can see them, but the stays I'm wearing in my avatar picture are made from red duchesse satin. I love them.

Mad Kass

[AkashaZuul]

That's exactly what I did, minus the tissue. I drafted the pattern from measurements based on the half-boned stays in Corsets and Crinolines, and cut them out of the Eureka vacuum box we had lying around. Worked great. I love how the latest blue silk dupioni ones turned out.

Can I just say OoooOoooooooh about those red stays? I'm not feeling very erudite at the moment, so that will have to do. Please say you have more photos you can post so I can see how they're made! They look just like Ian's Fustian stays (http://www.thestaymaker.com) that I'm currently in love with. Hopefully they'll be my next project once my tendonitis in my elbows goes away.

Nice to have you on the Pyrate board. : )

[kass]

Thanks for the welcome, AkashaZuul! Sorry about the tendonitis. I'm a dancer and I have it in my feet. Sucks.

Lemme see if I can find you some pics of those stays. But since you know good ol' C&C, you already have the pattern. It's the 1740s stays she shows. I just put a placket in the back because they didn't close well enough. I also filled in the gaps between the tabs with silk because these are supposed to be couture stays, not historical ones.

Okay, you can see them a bit better on this page:

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/corsets/

And here is a shot of them on my mannequin:

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/corse...therinered.html

The resolution on these pics aren't the greatest, but it's the best I can do for right now. I have some better photos I'll try to upload later.

Kass

[AkashaZuul]

They are awesome. I've spent the last week itching to get back to sewing, but it's a no-no right now; even Scott my better half looms menacingly over me when I try and use my arms.

(sigh)

So how is your business going? I always dreamed of owning my own clothing design business, but started it and realized I'd never get paid quite what my time was worth. So I'm studying to be a therapist now. : )

Send more photos of that corset, and any others you have. I need more inspiration!

[kass]

How this? This is this week's project:

Hunting Costume (in progress)

[AkashaZuul]

Oooh that'll be gorgeous. Do you have any more high-res photos of those stays? Those are quite lovely too.

What product did you use to dye your dupioni? I have a bunch of ivory scrap material that I'd like to paint or dye for a couple of projects coming up, and need to figure out a good silk dye.

Post more photos of your project as it moves along!

[kass]

I used a product called "Jacquard Acid Dyes" in the colour burgundy (#210). They're really easy to use. You set your washing machine on hot for a small load, pour in the dye (to get this deep colour took only 1/2 oz), make sure it's dissolved, add 1/4 cup white vinegar, and throw in your garment or fabric. It's dead easy.

Here's the company that sells the dye. They have a list of colours and stores where you can get them: Jacquard Products

More pictures of my good ol' stays? How's this:

Stays Front

Stays Back

Stays Side

[AkashaZuul]

Oh! Jacquard. I believe I have some of their dye for hand painting silk in my stash somewhere, awaiting inspiration. There's also a place in San Rafael up here that carries Jacquard dyes, as well as a ton of other products for dying cotton and silk. Dharma is their name, I believe. I've heard that Jacquard is definitely the stuff to use, and obvious from the beautiful color of your new jacket.

Very cool stays. Lovely workmanship too. They remind me very much of a beautiful pair that are photographed on the web somewhere, originals not reproduction. Did you do all the boning channels by hand? I'm also wondering what the white strip is on the shot of the back. I've seen that before, but have no idea what it is. . . a seam? A boning channel?

Just one more annoying question. . . what kind of boning did you use?

So many annoying questions! Oh well. . . gotta learn somehow, right?

Okay, I lied, one more question. Do you have as much stinkin' trouble getting into those things without a front opening as I do?!??! I'm so grateful for the invention of the busc.

Thanks.

[kass]

Hi Akasha.

Yeah Jacquard rules.

The boning channels are done by machine. The only corset I've done by hand so far is a lightly boned 16thc one. I'm working on a more heavil boned one all done by hand though. It's in progress here: The Effigy Corset

If you're referring to the white strip I think you're referring to, it's a narrow strip of twill tape used to cover the seams. Extant 18thc stays tend to have these things, so I did it on this one. It's my only stays with that embellishment though. Doesn't really do anything functional except cover and highlight the seam.

I used 7mm flat oval reed to bone the corset. Got it here: Grannd Companies It put two reeds in each channel, facing opposite directions to fight curving. It bends with you and breathes really well.

I don't have too much trouble getting into them because my husband laces me up. But damn, I have no idea what I'd do without him!