DuCouer Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Well Historically speaking...Pirates took what ever they captured and then adapted it to their needs. In the Cariribean during the 16th and 17th century where there was "no pean behind the line" The English fought the Dutch the The French fought the English and everybdy fought the Spanish. Spanish ships in the Main carried large amounts of gold, and they often had large crews consisting not only sailors but soldiers as well...and yes they wore Breast plates and Morion helmets and carried pikes...When in a pirate movie has one ever seen a pike. My point is...and forgive the redundancy of the History lesson...Whear what is practical...what is comfortable for the climate..and you will not only look like a pirate (Hollywood or otherwise), but will also be historically accurate. For a great book on Pirate stuff..including accessories and Weapons...check out Osprey Press, Elite series...Elizabethan Seadogs, and Buccaneers 1620-1700 both written by Angus Konston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Young Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Aye! I have th' Pirates & Privateers (17-1800s) from that same series... but I like the Buccaneer book better. "Yo Ho, all together hoist the colours high Heave Ho, theives and beggers Never shall we die..." "I don't care who ye say you are lad, if ye say 'savvy' one more time, I'll bury this cutlass in that thick skull of yers!" -Captain John Young - PILF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I likes RumbaRue's group who claim they are more "hysterically" accurate than historically accurate. I prefers this look fer me Captain Hook: Kin I haves him on me birthday cake, Rumba? Sorry t'interrupt yer discussion but this Captain be likin' the silly and irrelevent sometimes. And worth repeating again and again! Capt. Grey I love your "hysterically accurate" comment - right on! Rumba Rue **If you can't baffle 'em with brillance, then baffle 'em with you know what!** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I'm definitely with the hysterically accurate side - crowds want to be entertained for the most part and I've never had one person in 20 years complain about apparel or accessories being historically inaccurate. You can be whipped up in your finest period threads and still not bring the essence of piracy to life - and that's what most commoners want. Now this goes for non ren/SCA/re-enactment type events. I stay away from those like the plague can it's too tough to play with the people... Huzzah! to those who seek historical accuracy. But give me a smiling child, his willing mother and his absent father any time and I'll show them what piratin's all about! (argh!) -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cire Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Hurricane! A mother and her child? Better seriously hope the father doesn't show up.... Because the world does revolve around me, and the universe is geocentric.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Hurricane! A mother and her child? Better seriously hope the father doesn't show up.... Heh heh.... and 'tis known that no matter who or what ye be, the most dangerous place in the world to to find yer self... ....is between a mother and her child. Even if yer a Pirate. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratelassie Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 tis true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjöröveren Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 In the Cariribean during the 16th and 17th century where there was "no pean behind the line" I always figgered a pirate could pee where ever he wanted. Sorry, but I just can't resist a straight line. the Fool's Gold Pirates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spydre Rogue Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Arrr... This be me minde on th' subjickt: History be wot comes at th' pointe o' a quill; originatin' from an equally pointed head. Whilst pyracy be wot comes at th' pointe o' a blade; originatin' from an equally pointed argyumint. An' them wot hangs on th' words o' historians, swings from th' ends o' yardarms. So sez I. -Spydre //^@^\\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Bess Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Hurricane! A mother and her child? Better seriously hope the father doesn't show up.... Heh heh.... and 'tis known that no matter who or what ye be, the most dangerous place in the world to to find yer self... ....is between a mother and her child. Even if yer a Pirate. Of course, this be especially true if the mother is a pirate! Ladies in Scarlet: Piratical Art and Accessories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Some of the accuracy stuff drives me crazy, mostly when there's really no agreement about dates on stuff, but people still try to set out hard and fast guidelines. So much of the Renfaire stuff is just plain wrong, making the Elizabethans to be a good deal more primative and closer to middle ages technologies, fashions, and learning than they were. Im currently in a bruhaha about just WHEN the transitions from snaphaunce to English lock to Doglock occured. One of the SCA sites is about a century off on its dates for this, others are too early, from what i can tell, but all of them are ABsolutely CORRECT! Just ask em. Sigh More wine. Too early in the evening to be this sober..... Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_MacNamara Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 I try for as accurate of a look as possible, but when it comes down to it... if it looks good, and is plausible, go for it. I carry a flintlock, even though they weren't invented until the early 1600's (I'm currently portraying the mid to late 1500's) I have a nice doublet with nice buttons on it, even though one of the "Know it all's" in my local SCA group claim that buttons weren't invented until the mid-1700's... Then there's the one oddball person who has some degree in medieval history that claims that no form of firearms existed until 1650 or so... No one really knows anything, as history is just one narrow-minded opinion of a person who happened to write it down... As long as obvious anachronisms are avoided (carrying a colt .45 revolver instead of a flintlock), then who's to say a person's gear isn't plausible for their period? Just use a little common sense, and most people won't bother you about it... and if you've done your research, and someone argues with you on something, then politely ask them for documentation that they're opinion is correct. Captain of the Iron Lotus It is the angle that holds the rope, not the size of the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 I think I'll weigh in on the last 2 posts, since I am the Master Gunner and Guild Master for the Guild of St. Barbara. That is the group dedicated to expanding knowledge and use of black powder in the SCA. I'm also the Captayne General of artillery at Pennsic, and, as such, on the staff. First, the English lock appears in the second quarter of the 17th century. It is in common use on pistols by the English Civil War and hangs around a bit after that, but is eventually supplanted by the French lock, which most of us recognise as the common flintlock. As such, it is out of period for the Society, which ends at 1600. As far as the idiot who said firearms weren't invented until 1650, show him the manuscript of Walter de la Millemete that dates to 1326. It's not the first time I've heard this idiocy, and it generally traces back to the attitude that people don't want their Society contaminated by 'guns'. They put the date of firearms to coincide with the end of the Society. The Guild exists to bring black powder to the Society. Since there is a resistance, we are doing it in a way that must be 1000% justifiable historically. All firearms nust predate 1600. That means handgonnes, matchlocks, wheellocks, and snaphaunces only. The one exception is a flintlock that has been modified to look like a snaphaunce externally. Why do we do this? Well, there have been problems with blackpowder in the Society, and I hate to say it here, but the majority of the problems have been caused by pirates. People in out of period garb, carrying out of period weapons, firing them at the wrong time and place. Not all, true, but from what is in my files, certainly the majority. So we are hard assed about authenticity. That way there is no legitimate reason to come down on us. We teach, both practical and theory, as well as the history. Safety is number one priority. there are a bunch of us who'll teach firearms at the drop of a hat, we teach at Pennsic, and have a good reputation of helping the marshals by firing signal guns. If you're going tgo be there, put on your Elizbethan kit (or earlier )and come on down. We are also on Yahoogroups as SCA-gunners. Hawkyns Master of the Laurel for Blackpowder Firearms Research and Practice Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Young Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 What date does the Society end at? "Yo Ho, all together hoist the colours high Heave Ho, theives and beggers Never shall we die..." "I don't care who ye say you are lad, if ye say 'savvy' one more time, I'll bury this cutlass in that thick skull of yers!" -Captain John Young - PILF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 What date does the Society end at? 1600 Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Young Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hmmm.... Sir Francis Drake's Raid on St Augustine falls under that then.... thank ye. "Yo Ho, all together hoist the colours high Heave Ho, theives and beggers Never shall we die..." "I don't care who ye say you are lad, if ye say 'savvy' one more time, I'll bury this cutlass in that thick skull of yers!" -Captain John Young - PILF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grendle Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Well, mates, if ye can read a bit, then I am obviously a newly on this year board thingy, but in me own not-so-umble opinin', the question is what yer likes ter do, not what some jackanapes, pencil gnawin', clipboard toting ne'erdobad thinks o' what yer doin'. I was a member of a medieval recreation society back in the way dark dim past, and we showed the GPs a fine, entertainin' and occasionally mildy bloody ole time as we whacked and slashed and rolled about on the ground. One o' the boys even took to chewing alkaselzers to foam at the mouth (he was real pop-you-lar with the ladies, you can betcher bottom farthing). But then the organizers got involved. Perhaps it was just that some of the members got old. I dunno, but after a gap of a few years, I went back to an event at this club that I had helped organize and was told I couldn't participate because I wasn't "steel qualified" ... as though some dimp lick with a clipboard was "qualified" to judge me fightin' style. Shine me boots and call me a nancy, that spoilt the biscuit right quick, I kin tell ye. So ... (end of rant) Go to the event, go as histerical as you choose, and if that include eyeliner, well, me bucko, it be a big ocean. And just by the by, while you and I would not wear wool in summer, "period" dress did include wool, which don't shrink, repels water pretty well, and lasts a long long time. Not comfortable, but ask Mr. Arab the Camel Driver about his camel-hair burnoose if'n ye're atall curious about traditional hot weather gear. Smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Grendle That only goes so far. Whereever you go, whatever the event, you have to play by the host's rules. If it's a renfair, the rules are going to be looser than a recreation, and those are going to be looser than a re-enactment. You play where you are comfortable. I do everything from renfaires where pretty much anything goes, to re-enactments where I carry a documentation book in the car. I have 4 or 5 different kits, so I can change focus or date or authenticity level as needed. I enjoy all of them in thier own way, but the real hardcore re-eanctments are what I enjoy best, stictch counters and all. btw, I do wear wool in the summer. Mostly with leather over it. As far as the sword play, I've been doing it for 25 years in various groups. When I go to a group, and enter a fighting ring, I want to know what the combat conventions are. Are heads shots legal? Are we playing contact or not? What is the calibration standard? Are we using blunts, sharps, or salle weapons? Armour and masks or not? There are a lot of people playing this game, and not all of them are too tightly wrapped. I'm willing to risk life and limb against people who have a clue, but someone who comes in and says that the rules don't apply to them is not going to be fighting me or most of the people I know. Rules are neccesary to ensure that we can do this more than once. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Arrgh! I prefers the simple things. Just gimme the name o' the song, (I doesn't e'en have t'know it) the key, and let me stand where I can glance furtively at Hurricane. And don't plunge headfirst into the pool with me guitar. But that's a whole 'nother story... Sir Nigel - aka "Sir Freelancealot"; aka "Ace of Cads"; aka "JACKPOT!!" (cha-CHING!) "Mojitos BAD!...Lesbians with free rum GOOD!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_MacNamara Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Thanky, Hawkyns... I'm still a little new to the whole "period" firearms thing... What's a snaphaunce? Captain of the Iron Lotus It is the angle that holds the rope, not the size of the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhearted maggie Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 You're a pirate not an idiot! Sez who? OK maybe I'm wrong?! Is that unserwear on your head?! No that would be me husband...sorry, that's from a post from a while back. Actually, I'm having the whole summertime coat dilemma me self. They have an outdoor film festival here hosted by the TV station my husband works for an they're showin POTC. I've been asked to come and give the kids pirate "tattoos" and talk about pirate-y stuff...They want me to wear the whole outfit....yeesh...it's in July...in Alabama heat.... Long Live the crew of the CrimsonPermanent Assurance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Thanky, Hawkyns...I'm still a little new to the whole "period" firearms thing... What's a snaphaunce? It's an early form of firelock from the last quarter of the 16th century. More complicated than a flintlock, the steel and the pancover are 2 separate pieces, with a linkage between the two. http://www.silcom.com/~vikman/isles/script...rearm/snap.html Not many people make them, they are expensive and not particularly popular. Leonard Day has made some muskets, and Dale shinn has made some pistols, but either way, we're talking about a grand, give or take. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_MacNamara Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 hmmm I think I'll be carry'n me flintlock and bend the truth a bit... claim it's a snaphaunce... A grand for a pistol is a bit much fer me to be spendin' I joined yer mailing list as well hope ye don't mind Captain of the Iron Lotus It is the angle that holds the rope, not the size of the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scurvy Dog Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 History be written by poets, novelist, good listeners & some that were actually thar. Truth of the matter be, that people was much the same as they be in this day & age... Not everyone Followed Suit! Thar was those of us who wore different attire... we be considered trend setters t-day... i recalls a time workin' on a movie called ,"Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl"... long story how i pirated me way onto the set at universal...i wasn't invited mind ye, hahar...but anyways, the head costume designer told me that i'd have ta lose me hat..."why be that?!" says i ... the wench replies, "only the marines wore hats like that..." "where does ye thinks i got it from... can't ye see the blood!!!" says i... so if'en ye be feelin' like ye would be wearin' a coat then wears it... i would layer on clothes that i took from me fallen enemies if'en i enjoyed their look or feel (clothes that be, not me enemies) besides, the layers misguided dons who be thinkin' i be havin' more meat on me bones & i can'ts count as high as the number of times a large buckle, medalion & even a heavy vest of leather had deflected, stopped or at least slowed a ball or cutlas. that be all i'm havin' ta say on that matter at the moment... unles any of ye salts gives me grief on this here post. Captain Scurvy F. Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scurvy Dog Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 ...& then thar be the wenches undergarments i wore around me neck to breathe in their sweet aroma & mask the foul stench of the dead around me.... but that be another tale... Captain Scurvy F. Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
 {if(f.fbq)return;n=f.fbq=function(){n.callMethod? n.callMethod.apply(n,arguments):n.queue.push(arguments)}; if(!f._fbq)f._fbq=n;n.push=n;n.loaded=!0;n.version='2.0'; n.queue=[];t=b.createElement(e);t.async=!0; t.src=v;s=b.getElementsByTagName(e)[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(t,s)}(window, document,'script', 'https://connect.facebook.net/en_US/fbevents.js'); fbq('init', '1074427760321280'); fbq('track', 'PageView'); </script> <noscript><img height=)
&ev=PageView&cd%5Bitem_id%5D=2330&cd%5Bitem_name%5D=The+Great+Debate&cd%5Bitem_type%5D=topic&cd%5Bcategory_name%5D=Scuttlebutt"/>
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now