Care and keeping of knives: an inquiry

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

So, i have two hand forged knives that were part of my "kit" years ago. In trying to put whole knew set of gear together they have surfaced out of the storage bin the have been in for over a decade and they are in need of some love.

 

They are both hand forged. One is a small hook shaped knife, (i believe stainless) with antler handle. This one has minimal tarnish. 

 

The other is twist handle single piece knife, forged out of an old railroad spike. This one is....worse for the neglect. Covered in what appears to be rust, but primarily only on the blade that had been in a sheath, which seems counter intuitive to me and leads me to question if maybe it's some kind of residue from the leather that was used (it's honestly almost the exact same color)

So, i need advice on best methods to clean these up. I had once been advised wd40 and steel wool. Not sure that is best and i know that precludes using it with food (which isn't a deal breaker, as these are primarily utility knives), so looking for suggestions and any experienced advice on how to get these beauties to shine again and how to keep them looking nice.

 

 

[Stynky Tudor]

Wow, both of those are beautiful pieces.

Some time ago, Cascabel warned me about leaving knives, sword and guns in a leather sheath - saying they would rust. I'm not sure of the science behind it, but it definitely happens. Unfortunately he's no longer with us, he would have been a good source of information on how to proceed.

WD40 is a good oil for loosening (crud) stuff up for cleaning, but it is light weight, volatile and dissipates pretty quickly. Over the long run, it doesn't doesn't have much staying power to prevent further/future corrosion.

Now I'm not a metallurgy person, but I would give a food safe kitchen oil and steel wool a try, I think that would clean it up nicely. I also know blacksmiths sometimes use a thin beeswax on items they've forged - at least on handles. 

[Duchess]

0000 Steel wool to gently remove the rust, it should clean off completely unless you have true pitting. From the pictures it doesn't look like you do.

Leather sheaths aren't great for long term storage for a few reasons:

• Leather needs moisture. Holding that moisture against metal leads to rusting.
• Leather is often tanned with chemicals that can contribute to moisture retention or contain salts all of which are bad for metal
• Any knife sheathed after use but without cleaning brings who knows what inside the sheath that stuff is then pressed against the metal and can contribute to rust.

For protecting your metal, if you need something food safe, use food safe mineral oil. You can use that on the blade and on the handle.

You can also patina your blade, similar to how you'd season a cast iron pan.

I've also done a sort of "corner of the shop" rough and dirty rust bluing by soaking the metal in a bucket of water and vinegar. (This is useful for removing scale or heavy rust too.) After the a good soak (over night to a couple of weeks) card off all the gunk with 0000 steel wool. Rinse well and soak it a bucket of baking soda water to stop the vinegar action. After a similar soak, card it all off with the steel wool , dry it thoroughly and coat in the mineral oil.

Note that your railroad spike knife could be anything from mild steel to something equivalent to 1045 steel. They're pretty much all over the place, so expect that it likely won't hold an edge and will need lots of attention to stay rust free. Be pleasantly surprised by anything else.

[Mary Diamond]

Please allow me to introduce Evapo-Rust. I have personally used this product on several projects, and wholeheartedly recommend it. Note that I would suspend the bone handle above the solution, to avoid damage or discoloration.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Great suggestions, all, thank you! I am starting with some 0000 steel wool and mineral oil cause that's what was readily available on my regular errands route but that Evaporust looks mighty interesting. 

I will post results once i take a crack at them.

Also good to know that my instincts about the sheath weren't completely off base. I am thinking long term storage will be a lose wrap of scrap linen and a box of some kind. Also might have to have the husband craft me a new sheath out of better quality, perhaps even a lined, leather, just to be safe. Though he has a matching blade and sheath to the twist handle one, so if we still want to match he'd have to do two lol.

Thinking ahead though, once they are cleaned, what should I be looking at for sharpening? Somehow I imagine my kitchen knife sharpener might not be suitable?

Edited May 16, 2023 by TudorSmith

[Mary Diamond]

18 hours ago, TudorSmith said:

Great suggestions, all, thank you! I am starting with some 0000 steel wool and mineral oil cause that's what was readily available on my regular errands route but that Evaporust looks mighty interesting. 

I got my Evaporust at my local O’Reilly auto parts store, though a quick search also shows Home Depot, Harbor Freight and Wal-Mart pickup availability. Plan on dedicating a cheap plastic tub (for rusty bit submersion and soaking) and funnel (for pouring the Evaporust back into the original container until you are ready for it again), and you will be all set for a number of repeated uses.

 

18 hours ago, TudorSmith said:

Thinking ahead though, once they are cleaned, what should I be looking at for sharpening? Somehow I imagine my kitchen knife sharpener might not be suitable?

Captain Pern kept a small sharpening stone with him, and skillfully sharpened my bone handle knife to a fine edge, while at FZ many moons ago, before I got into woodworking. I have since acquired a number of my own stones, and prefer the traditional stone methods, unless the edge is badly damaged. These folks are generous with their knowledge and patience, if you are inclined…

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Sharpening-Stones-C1.aspx?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Sharpening - Keyword&utm_term=sharpening stones&utm_content=sharpening stone-Opt

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

So first and second attempts were made with the oil and steel wool... It was looking pretty nice and i thought would be successful but 24 hours later sitting in the open air and it's already covered again. 

Here it is during and immediately after

Still had some discoloration but was delightfully smooth and i felt it was good progress.

Here it is one to two days later and just about the same rust is back. Don't know if it just re-rusted that quickly (in which case, hellooo humidity) or if i didn't really get it all off and the oil just kind of glossed over it til it dried. 

So, long story short, the saga continues and i am now skipping ahead to @Mary Diamond's suggestion and will have to make a journey out to AutoZone for some Evaporust.

Edited May 22, 2023 by TudorSmith

[Mary Diamond]

Ah, sorry to say, the rust will always find a way back, starting immediately (if not sooner) after you have set the piece down as “finished”. Be sure to oil (food-grade knife oil) immediately when finished. A rust eraser is also helpful to have on hand.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

So before the long weekend i set these to soak in the Evaporust, the railroad spike sat for about 4 hours, the curved blade antler handle about 30 minutes. Both turned out excellent, and were oiled as soon as they were rinsed and air-dried for a bit. They then sat for the better part of a week, and had none of the re-rusting that i had before. 

 

Rather surprisingly, the edge on the railroad spike has held pretty well since it was last sharpened years ago. Still will be looking into sharpening options in the near future though for it and the curved blade.

Figuring out long term storage is the next process. I'm wondering if wrapping them in some linen scraps and then an airtight box might be suitable to keep the moisture from getting to them

[Mary Diamond]

Glad to see you had a good experience with the EvapoRust! Thank you for keeping us posted 😊

[Stynky Tudor]

I know I've said it before, beautiful pieces!

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

21 hours ago, Stynky Tudor said:

I know I've said it before, beautiful pieces!

Thank you! I've always been pretty proud of them. Both pretty but also highly functional. Both purchased directly from the blacksmiths, one of whom has since passed away so I'm glad to have at least a small piece of his work.

 

The twist handle one is particularly sentimental though because i bought it as a matched pair for me and my now-husband. I will have to get his out too soon to give it a clean and oil. I was told at the time by the smith that it was based on an historical nautical style knife, but I've yet to find any documentation on that. . .

[William Brand]

I was surprised to find my two knives in good working order, as I've not used them for some time.  I opened the box they've been stored in for the past few years expecting to find them laced with at least some rust.  I'm not complaining, since the event is close and I need all the time I can to finish other things.  There's something to be said for a knife that is well treated when made, so that it resists rust.  

[Stynky Tudor]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:29 AM, TudorSmith said:

based on an historical nautical style knife, but I've yet to find any documentation on that. . .

Beautiful and functional none the less!