Francois Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 We had discussed religion at one point and it made me wonder. How do you think Pyrates celebrated Christmas? Did they follow the traditions of their roots? Did they make up their own traditions? Did they ignore it all together? Did they drink themselves drunk till they passed out? Any guesses are welcome but more so Id like to know if there is any documented proof. And while were at it. What about New Years? Francois I am a Free Men of The Sea I don't pillage and plunder.I covertly acquire!François Viete Domont de la PalmierI haven't been accused of Pyracy...............YET
Swifty Morgan Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Well I don't know about that mate I have not heard of any proof so if someone can find some facts that would be great. Swifty
hitman Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Well for the GAoP I can't say however early Christians (read Roman) would have spent the holiday in port as their vessels couldn't handle the fierice winter storms in the med. The Corsairs should have been subjected to this same rule given there vessels but I'm not sure and they weren't Christian for the most part anyway. In the GAoP the major Navies would be returning to the carrabiean in strength with the end of Hurricane season and from my recollections it seems this generally led to a draw down in Piracy. but these are just guesses THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET
Fox Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Doesn't Dampier mention a buccaneer Christmas in his journal, or is it Cowley? (Away from home for a few days, so can't check). As I recall it was a pretty simple time with a few prayers and a fair bit of booze. Incidentally during the GAoP New Year was celebrated on Lady Day, March 25th, not January 1st. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Monterey Jack Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Calico Jack spent Christmas in Cuba with Anne. He and the crew partied for a month, ran out of everything and went "shopping" again.... Guess even pirates get the Holidays off. Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........."
Rumba Rue Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Getting drunk would be my guess. Anything for a party.
DurtyLillie Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Nuthin' wrong with a Pyrate Party! ...thinks that's whot them authentic 16th century mates did mostly when they weren't starvin' at sea..... Pyracy in all it's Glory, Yers, D.L. aka DurtyLaFey member of a few crewes....but that be a personal question.
Raphael Misson Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 This quote from Henry Teonge's Diary was just full of all sorts of stuff. I learned several things. “[Jan. 6, 1676] …for this day being the Twelfth Day [of Christmas]¹… we had much mirth on board, for we had a great cake made², in which was put a bean for the king, a pea for the queen, a clove for the knave, a forked stick for the cuckold, a rag for the slut. The cake was cut into several pieces in the great cabin, and all put into a napkin³, out of which everyone took his piece, as out of a lottery; then each piece is broken to see what was in it, which caused much laughter, to see our Lieutenant prove the cuckold, and more to see us tumble one over the other in the cabin, ye reason of the weather.” (Teonge, p. 120) ¹ At first I wasn't sure what "Twelfth Day" meant until I puzzled out the date. Turns out the twelve Days of Christmas was a sort of church holiday in England - something I didn't know. It's sometimes called Christmastide according to wiki and the Epiphany (which I actually knew, but had never thought about as a holiday). I also rambled across an interesting (if possibly untrue) explanation of the song the 12 Days of Christmas on this site ²This is something else I've come across in the past that I didn't realize had such deep roots. I was working in Lousiana right after Christmas many years ago and they made a "King's Cake" which contained 2 plastic babies. Note that not only were the items embedded in the cake different, the interpretations were as well. If you wound up with one of the babies you were scheduled for a live birth in your family in the coming year. (Ergo, when I was there, getting a baby was considered a bad thing.) ³ Napkins on ship! (Well, it was the officer's mess.) Teonge's descriptions of the food and drink are very different than other contemporary accounts, particularly Barlow's. You really get a feel for the differences in food that the officers got and what the sailors got by contrasting Teonge's Diary with Barlow's Journal. “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire
callenish gunner Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 in most Latin countries it is also referred to as three kings day as to when the "wise guys" showed up with the loot ....growing up in Scotland this was the day when our gifts were exchanged ...Christmas was a quiet day of church and prayer and a simple "feast"with the first of the "puddings" ...the last of the "puddings" was served on twelfth night and that one had three coins in it a sovereign a shilling and a penny ...the feast for twelfth night was always the grandest we could put on the board ...roast goose and rack of mutton mashed ruddies with lots of butter and carrots and peas in applejack glaze with lots of wine and stout and brandy or whiskee throughout the eve
Raphael Misson Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Speaking of holidays, Teonge mentions several that are sort of interesting (he has such an earthy way of describing things.) I notice that he mentions far more than Edward Barlow did in his Journal. As I recall, Barlow mentions Christmas, Michaelmas, possibly Easter (not sure) and whitsunday. Michaelmas - aka. Feast of Saints Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael or the Feast of Michael and All Angels is September 29th. It is associated with the beginning of autumn and the shortening of days and is also one of the UK quarter days when accounts are settled. Whitsunday - this appears to be associated with several days, but I believe it's the Sunday of the feast of Whitsun or Pentecost observed 7 weeks after Easter in this context. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The web doesn't seem to have a 17th century UK holiday list that I've found...) However, Teonge describes several more. Perhaps officers had better access to holidays, especially in regard to the feasts that were often given in their honor. (Barlow strikes a distinctly doleful chord in relation to several Christmas meals in particular for the common seaman.) New Years Eve "[Dec 31, 1678] Where we end the old year merrily in wine, punch, and brandy." (Teonge, p. 234) Note: Barlow never mentions this at all as a holiday, even when describing something on this day in his journal. The anniversary of the execution of Charles I - "[Jan 30, 1679] A solemn day, and we keep it accordingly with jacks and pendants lowered half-way, and prayers; and firing of guns at night." (Teonge, p. 238) Note: Barlow may have mentioned this day, although at the time I wasn't focused on holidays. Barlow commented stridently on various political things in his journal. Candlemas Day - a Principal Feast of the Church of England celebrating the Presentation of Christ in the Temple on February 2nd or on the Sunday between January 28th and February 3rd - "[Feb 2, 1679] Good Candlemas Day. Very Cold. We are commanded to fetch water all day, and have not time for prayers." (Teonge, p. 238) Shrove Tuesday - aka 'Fat Tuesday' today, the day before Ash Wednesday - "[Feb 4, 1679] This is one of the most jovial days in the year, on the shore [his ship is in Minorca which belongs to Spain. Thus the holiday is not celebrated on the ship, but the description is funny so I'm putting it in here.] All people are either in the open streets or at their doors. The men fling oranges at the women, and they fling oranges or water at the men; and 'tis a great favour if you are hit with any of them; this they do all the day long, and no exception is to be taken at any thing; and they are most esteemed that make the most mirth. At night they sing, and dance, and banquet, till 12 a-clock; and then they begin their Lent." “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire
Raphael Misson Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 Mark the date! "March 1st [1679] St Taffy's Day, and may in our ship do wear leeks." This seems to be a Welsh holiday celebrating the death of St. David. According to wiki, "In south Wales males usually wear leeks while young girls wear daffodils; in the north the daffodil predominates." This is apparently because leeks are associated with daffodils. (I didn't get it either. Must be a Welsh thing.) “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire
Salty Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 another holiday season is afoot....and let us not forget the grand tradtion of fruit cakes.... or puddings. would thay have had anything speical in the ships to perpare for the holidays?????? Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 I think we had a period fruitcake that was used for decoration several christmases in a row when I was a kid. Probably made in Eden by Eve. Bo
Mission Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 would thay have had anything speical in the ships to perpare for the holidays?????? Only yesterday I read that Christmas wasn't quite the grand holiday it has become before Dickens penned A Christmas Carol in 1843. In fact, if I recall it correctly, it was regarded in England as a holiday for the hoi polloi. Dickens popular tale made it more appealing and fashionable, causing it to take off from there. Again, just something I read in a profile of Dickens. As for shipboard celebrations, I have some data in addition to the Teonge quote at the top of this post. It's all from common sailor Edward Barlow, who, as seems his wont, is complaining about the food. “[1661]We had but small Christmas cheer, not having Christmas pie or roast beef or plum ‘podich’ and suchlike, I remembering that the poorest people in all England would have a bit of something that was good on such a day, and that many beggars would fare much better than we did; for all we had nothing but a little bit of Irish beef for four men, which had lain in pickle two or three years and was as rusty as the Devil, with a little stinking oil or butter, which was all colours of the rainbow, many men in England greasing their cartwheels with better; and also we had not two or three days to play in and go where we would, as the worst of servants had in England, but as soon as we had ate our large dinner, which was done at three or four mouthfuls, we must work all the day afterward, and maybe a great part of the night, which made me many times to put in consideration what a hard task I had taken upon me for my lifetime…” (Barlow, p. 68) “[1668, Yarmouth Frigate] So it being December, we kept our Christmas Day there [‘Ligorne’ Road], but we wanted such Christmas cheer as many a one had in England, for we had nothing to our Christmas dinner but a bit of old rusty salt beef, which had lain in pickle eighteen or twenty months, and a piece of it for three men, about three-quarters of a pound, which was picked out of all the rest, for the officers having the first choice always, nothing was left for the poor men but the surloin next to the horns, and they have Hobson’s choice [‘that or noe’]; and if they do but speak against it, then they are in danger of being drubbed or beaten with twenty or thirty blows on the back, and a poor man dare not speak for that which is his right, for the captain and purser and other officers, having the best of all things, a poor man is not to be heard amongst them, but he must be content to take what they will give him, they many times putting that into their pockets which is a poor man’s due.” (Barlow, p. 161-2) “[1693] And in August our men began to be sickly, several of them dying although the place [bengal] had plenty of good provisions; a good cow for six shillings, and a good hog for half a crown, and a good goose for one shilling, and hens for three halfpence and twopence, and good white rice for a farthing a pound, and green fruits and ‘saliting’ [salading] at Christmas and all provisions very cheap. “[1673] And it being December, we kept our Christmas there, being prisoners [of the Dutch], and instead of good pies and roast meat, we were content with a little boiled rice and a piece of stinking beef, which they gave us three days in the week, and a quart of stinking water to drink for a day, the weather being exceeding hot.” (Barlow, p. 228) “[1676]Having put all our good on shore that we were to deliver [to Marseilles], we walked ashore being Christmas, to take our recreation and see all about the town, which is a place of very good buildings and a pretty large town or city, where all things are very plentiful, both for meat and drink. They have a very good wine of several sorts and very cheap, especially a red wine, which is a king of wine much like to claret, only a clearer red and better wine to drink.” (Barlow, p. 271) Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Dutchman Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 During one of our many conversations with Kevin Duffus on the last days of Black Beard, the topic of Christmas on the island for the survivors of the battle came up. Obviously, the captured pirates had little to look forward to but how about Maynards crew? I'll have to dig for it, but somewhere I ran across a description of spirits, song and prayer on board a R.N. vessel, maybe gun fire but i don't remember for certain. Heck, I don't even remember which journal i found it in. maybe teonge? Has anyone run across any other descriptions of festivities aboard ship for other religs or national holidays durring the period?
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) From Charles Johnson's Genereral history of pyrates. From Rackhan section "Prizes, to depart in her, she being then bound for that Island. After this Cruize, they went into a small Island and cleaned, and spent their Christmas ashore, drinking and carousing as long as they had any Liquor left, and then went to Sea again for more, where they succeeded but too well, though they took no extraordinary Prize, for above two Months, except a Ship laden with Thieves from Newgate, bound for the Plantations, which, in a few Days, was retaken with all her Cargo, by an English Man of War." Edited April 14, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Well that was not aboard ship but ashore but..... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 I bet that sailors alike would use any party as an excuse to hard drinking. No matter whether it's Cristmas or nameday of bilge rat "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Mission Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Yes, Teonge and Edward Barlow both commented on Christmas as well as several other holidays. Check out this thread. I know pirates reveling (on land and shipboard) on Christmas is mentioned in The General History. I don't have it handy, but I can post them when I do if you like. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Yes, Teonge and Edward Barlow both commented on Christmas as well as several other holidays. Check out this thread. I know pirates reveling (on land and shipboard) on Christmas is mentioned in The General History. I don't have it handy, but I can post them when I do if you like. This is handy http://digital.lib.ecu.edu/17001 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Mission Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Yes, that is handy. (It would be even more handy if you'd re-copy and post the quotes. ) I will post them when I start entering quotes from the version of the General History into my notes. If I just go and grab them and stick them in here I may end up typing them twice which is wasted work. I dislike wasted work. So feel free to do it yourself if you want to help Dutch out. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Dutchman Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 ah i forgot about that thread. thanks mission! First hand accounts are great!
Mission Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 I probably only remembered it because I posted it. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Yes, that is handy. (It would be even more handy if you'd re-copy and post the quotes. ) I will post them when I start entering quotes from the version of the General History into my notes. If I just go and grab them and stick them in here I may end up typing them twice which is wasted work. I dislike wasted work. So feel free to do it yourself if you want to help Dutch out. You can copy text at "text" section http://digital.lib.ecu.edu/17001 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Fox Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 From the narrative of Richard Lazenby, prisoner of John Taylor: "They caroused, and kept their Christmas in a most riotous manner, destroying most of the fresh provisions they had aboard, of which quite two-thirds was wasted. After three days of such debauchery and waster, they decided to go to Mauritius to repair the Victory, which was now in a very bad way." Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now