What can Whydah told to us?

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Hi I am not unfortunately seen whydah artifacs in reality but I know lots of stuff there has been found...

Since I am not a real expert others who do know better can school me if needed

I have Some interesting points about that stuff

While the typical pirate image is far too flashy and I am not defending it to be accurate I wonder what that that only 100% genuine part of pirate clothing is silk stokking and what will the big number of silver buttons and decorative buckles tells us anout pirate clothing.

other artifacts like small swords are also interesting but it is really well possible that some of the finest clothing and these swords were in fact loot and not all used.

I have found the list here of the stuff http://www.piratebre...rtifacts01.html

but in any case Bellamy was one of the succesful pirates of the age and that what he and his crew were like cannot aply fully to casual pirates who were much more poor but up to a point certainly it can be aplied...

Here are some pics

button

sword part

pistol

shoe and silk hose

Edited March 11, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Swashbuckler 1700]

More

Ring

Bomds

pistol and bag

writing tools

buckler and buttons

[Fox]

Since I am not a real expert others who do know better can school me if needed

Yep, that's what happens in Twill!

While the typical pirate image is far to flashy and I am not defending it to be accurate I wonder what that that only 100% genuine part of pirate clothing is silk stokking and what will the big number of silver buttons and decorative buckles tells us anout pirate clothing.

other artifacts like small swords are also interesting but it is really well possible that some of the finest clothing and these swords were in fact loot and not all used.

While the silk stocking is (I believe) the only complete piece of clothing found so far, there are over 100 other pieces of fabric of different types. The silk stocking is especially interesting because there's a very high chance that the original owner can be identified - John King, a fairly wealthy lad, whose ownership of silk stockings is not surprising. This also raises the issue of his shoe. The much vaunted "Whydah shoe" has been copied extensively for pirate reenactors, but given its origins I have long questioned how far it should be assumed "typical"

Buttons and buckles occur frequently in sailors' wills and seem to have been a form of portable wealth.

but in any case Bellamy was one of the succesful pirates of the age and that what he and his crew were like cannot aply fully to casual pirates who were much more poor but up to a point certainly it can be aplied...

Define successful. The capture of the Whydah aside, Bellamy and his company were no more successful than many other pirates like Blackbeard and Roberts for example. There is a tendency to assume that most pirates were not so successful as the "big names", but in practice the companies of Bellamy, Roberts, Blackbeard, Taylor, La Buse, Low, and other "successful" pirates made up a very considerable portion of the pirates active in the GAoP.

One thing to bear in mind with any artefact assemblage like the Whydah stuff is that it is, at best, partial, and can only tell us what pirates had - not what they did not have, or how prevalent any particular item was. For example, only half a dozen or so plates have been recovered, but there were over 140 men aboard when she sank, so either we have to accept that ~135 plates have been lost (or not yet found) or that only 4% of pirates had plates...

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Since I am not a real expert others who do know better can school me if needed

Yep, that's what happens in Twill!

While the typical pirate image is far to flashy and I am not defending it to be accurate I wonder what that that only 100% genuine part of pirate clothing is silk stokking and what will the big number of silver buttons and decorative buckles tells us anout pirate clothing. other artifacts like small swords are also interesting but it is really well possible that some of the finest clothing and these swords were in fact loot and not all used.

While the silk stocking is (I believe) the only complete piece of clothing found so far, there are over 100 other pieces of fabric of different types. The silk stocking is especially interesting because there's a very high chance that the original owner can be identified - John King, a fairly wealthy lad, whose ownership of silk stockings is not surprising. This also raises the issue of his shoe. The much vaunted "Whydah shoe" has been copied extensively for pirate reenactors, but given its origins I have long questioned how far it should be assumed "typical" Buttons and buckles occur frequently in sailors' wills and seem to have been a form of portable wealth.

but in any case Bellamy was one of the succesful pirates of the age and that what he and his crew were like cannot aply fully to casual pirates who were much more poor but up to a point certainly it can be aplied...

Define successful. The capture of the Whydah aside, Bellamy and his company were no more successful than many other pirates like Blackbeard and Roberts for example. There is a tendency to assume that most pirates were not so successful as the "big names", but in practice the companies of Bellamy, Roberts, Blackbeard, Taylor, La Buse, Low, and other "successful" pirates made up a very considerable portion of the pirates active in the GAoP. One thing to bear in mind with any artefact assemblage like the Whydah stuff is that it is, at best, partial, and can only tell us what pirates had - not what they did not have, or how prevalent any particular item was. For example, only half a dozen or so plates have been recovered, but there were over 140 men aboard when she sank, so either we have to accept that ~135 plates have been lost (or not yet found) or that only 4% of pirates had plates...

Well Blackbeard took about 40 ships and bellmy 50 (or am I wrong) other the silk sling found with the pistol was not probaply John Kings' and to me that that pirates used silk to so mundane purpose can tell someting.... Was King rich? I know that he was passenger with his mother until pirates captured them but were they really wealthy?

About plates and other stuff I believe that not every pirate had his own plate but I believe that some artifacts are still on the sea bed and total amount of plates was someting like 10 or 20 or little more ( this is not based on anyting other than my belifs)...

And so sailors and especially pirates had silver and other expensive buttons....

Well that John King was weathy lad means only that there was some wealthier pirates like b Roberts (I know this is from johnsons' book )(Roberts I believe looted his clothes from the governor of Martinigue who Roberts so brutally executed. So I believe what Johnsons said about Black barts's look since if man loots 400 ships he could get his hands on sime nice gear

So does his crew like the surgeon of HMS Swasllow described (yes in GHoP but..)

"This Ship was commanded by one Skyrmé, a Welch Man, who, tho’ he had lost his Leg in the Action, would not suffer himself to be dressed, or carried off the Deck; but, like Widrington, fought upon his Stump. The rest appeared gay and brisk, most of them with white Shirts, Watches, and a deal of Silk Vests, but the Gold-Dust belonging to them, was most of it left in the Little Ranger in the Bay, (this Company's proper Ship,) with the Royal Fortune."

In any case King and others like Roberts were exceptions and normal pirate would wear linen and wool insead of silk (and so should lets say reenactors do)

.( And if you have not any strong or reasonable objections I can remain in this faith...) tell still what you think...

Edited March 11, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Swashbuckler 1700]

I also believe that what pirates (if succesful) would wear similar clothing to the wealthy sailors like one here of just little of period pic of sailor who have got some prise money... And like Foxe said buttons and buckles were sailors' form of portable their wealth like this man here...

So here we had (almost) period pic that can tell us that sailors alike liked to swagger if there was opportunity...

I am still not defending popular image...

Edited March 11, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Since I am not a real expert others who do know better can school me if needed

Yep, that's what happens in Twill!

While the typical pirate image is far to flashy and I am not defending it to be accurate I wonder what that that only 100% genuine part of pirate clothing is silk stokking and what will the big number of silver buttons and decorative buckles tells us anout pirate clothing.

other artifacts like small swords are also interesting but it is really well possible that some of the finest clothing and these swords were in fact loot and not all used.

While the silk stocking is (I believe) the only complete piece of clothing found so far, there are over 100 other pieces of fabric of different types. The silk stocking is especially interesting because there's a very high chance that the original owner can be identified - John King, a fairly wealthy lad, whose ownership of silk stockings is not surprising. This also raises the issue of his shoe. The much vaunted "Whydah shoe" has been copied extensively for pirate reenactors, but given its origins I have long questioned how far it should be assumed "typical"

Buttons and buckles occur frequently in sailors' wills and seem to have been a form of portable wealth.

but in any case Bellamy was one of the succesful pirates of the age and that what he and his crew were like cannot aply fully to casual pirates who were much more poor but up to a point certainly it can be aplied...

Define successful. The capture of the Whydah aside, Bellamy and his company were no more successful than many other pirates like Blackbeard and Roberts for example. There is a tendency to assume that most pirates were not so successful as the "big names", but in practice the companies of Bellamy, Roberts, Blackbeard, Taylor, La Buse, Low, and other "successful" pirates made up a very considerable portion of the pirates active in the GAoP.

One thing to bear in mind with any artefact assemblage like the Whydah stuff is that it is, at best, partial, and can only tell us what pirates had - not what they did not have, or how prevalent any particular item was. For example, only half a dozen or so plates have been recovered, but there were over 140 men aboard when she sank, so either we have to accept that ~135 plates have been lost (or not yet found) or that only 4% of pirates had plates...

Oh when I said that "popular image is far to flashy" I meant that it is "far too flashy"

Edited March 11, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Oh and indeed the artefact gives us just a glimpse of reality since this was just one ship and that what pirates in Wydah had or had not differed from that in other ships not to metion that many artifacs are not yet found or perhaps never will be ... so there is perhaps earring, parrot skeleton, or bucket boot layer yet to be discover on the sea bed (ofcourse humour...)

[IvanHenry]

Oh man, you had to go and open up that thread / topic again didn't ya?! Sailors / pirates did have parrots from time to time, ear rings are openly debatable but less likely during the GAOP and bucket boots.... Yeah! Here we go again!

[Mission]

Someone (besides me - I'm too busy fashioning a unicorne) should do a search for all the topics like this that are on this board and post an index. (Don't forget striped clothing of all sorts, tats, eye patches and such like...)

[peglegstrick]

and peglegs...............

[Mission]

We've established peglegs thanks to Swashbuckler.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

We've established peglegs thanks to Swashbuckler.

Aye!

To others

Earings can be found on "interesting pictures" tread and there is actually little GAoP evidence that even Foxe had admitted somewhere. but earrings were quite rare and mainly Dutch sailor style then......

Parrots are not completely myth but not true either. there is records from e.g Dampier about nice talking parrots but not n pirate use but still.... and as pirate loot parrots were not impossible to get since they were transered from America to europe to be walthy people's pets....

Bucket boots in gaop are myth but there is record of one pirate having pair of boots while he was riding.... and this not aply to buccaneers but we were talking about gaop here

[Swashbuckler 1700]

We've established peglegs thanks to Swashbuckler.

Aye!

To others

Earings can be found on "interesting pictures" tread and there is actually little GAoP evidence that even Foxe had admitted somewhere. but earrings were quite rare and mainly Dutch sailor style then......

Parrots are not completely !00 % myth but not true either. there is records from e.g Dampier about nice talking parrots but not n pirate use but still....Sailors indeed sometimes had some and as pirate loot parrots were not impossible to get since they were transered from America to europe to be walthy people's pets....

Bucket boots in gaop are myth but there is record of one pirate having pair of boots while he was riding.... and this not aply to buccaneers but we were talking about gaop here

[Swashbuckler 1700]

I wonder how many leather ammo boxes have been found in the wreck? Modern books (like quite good "Pirate The Golden Age") and even period pictures like these many has often these cartouche boxes. At least in Johnson's work etc the boxes are accurate but we can think what ever we want about many other things in these GHOP (or the other Johnson's book's) images

'

BTW this is nice picture of Every made in 1736 but there is hints of 1690s fashion like coat and tie so maker of this image was not too bad but like so many others he (probably) never saw Every

But perhaps it is good that pirate history is not too well documented if it would what we would do then

[Swashbuckler 1700]

I also wonder is that he only ring found there? It was propably sailor's. Foxe knows some sailor wills yeas? Were rings often owned?