Spanish Cannon

[Captain Midnight]

Ahoy mates! I am doing a bit of research on 17th and 18th century Spanish naval cannons, and I am looking for any clear pictures or other depictions of the various coats of arms that were engraved or cast onto the barrels. Black and white line art would be fantastic, if anyone knows where I might find it. Thanks so much for any help you can provide!

[Quartermaster James]

http://www.texasbeyo...-coat-arms.html

and

http://www.nps.gov/c...ulture/arms.htm (Scroll down about half-way, to the cannon section. Hover over the image for description.)

Another view, again about half-way down: http://www.cannonsuperstore.com/cannon_info_page2.htm

[Quartermaster James]

This may also interest you, although it is about Portuguese cannon: http://www.cannonsuperstore.com/sacramento.htm

[Captain Midnight]

That first one is EXACTLY what I'm looking for! Thank you Quartermaster James! I also once saw one with a double-headed eagle. Anyone ever seen that one?

[PoD]

While i was on holiday in Spain the other year I bumped into this Cannon on the way to the beach.

I took some close up shots of the crest on it.

[Quartermaster James]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Armas_de_Carlos_I_de_Espa%C3%B1a.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Spain

[Korisios]

Can't help but ask what your planning to do with them and the info you find?

I am alway courios about stuff considering the Spanish.

I have been thinking of buying a cannon one time to have a big object in my display to draws attention.

and if theres a way to make it more Spanish than buying someting off the shelf, (what a mighty big shelf that must be )

then that would be even better...

You might also want to take a look at my gallery, there are some pictures of cannons and canon barrels in there altough not much..

Edited December 22, 2010 by Korisios

[Captain Midnight]

I don't mind you asking at all, Korisios! I am planning to build a replica cannon that can be used in parades, festivals, and other similar events. This cannon needs to be safe, and able to be fired with many people looking on, or from a parade float. Thus, I am building it in the form or a carbide cannon, which is basically nothing more than a noise maker, as nothing is placed down the barrel that could act as a projectile. However, unlike most carbide cannons that are seen, my version will be built to mimic a real historical cannon. The carbide, which is an inexpensive chemical used to fuel miners' lamps, is found in the form of small pellets, lumps, or powder, and can be obtained cheaply and easily. When mixed with water, it produces a small amount of acetylene gas that makes a loud "BANG" when ignited.

After reading the novel Flint and Silver by John Drake, in which the favored gun of Israel Hands is a Spanish 9 pounder, and coupled with the fact that I have always admired Spanish culture, I became enamored with the idea of building and owning a Spanish cannon. I am also writing a story in which my own ship, the Revenant is a captured Spanish vessel, so its guns in the story are likewise Spanish guns. Spanish cannons from the 17th and early 18th century often times tended to be more ornate and fancy than other contemporary European cannons, so that attracts me to them as well.

I have seen photos of an original Spanish gun now located in California that bore a heraldic crest in the form of a double-headed eagle along its first reinforce, and had ornate "dolphins" (lifting loops); features that I intend to incorporate into my replica.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Captain Midnight

[Korisios]

Great! I am looking foreward to your progressions...

[Cascabel]

I don't mind you asking at all, Korisios! I am planning to build a replica cannon that can be used in parades, festivals, and other similar events. This cannon needs to be safe, and able to be fired with many people looking on, or from a parade float. Thus, I am building it in the form or a carbide cannon, which is basically nothing more than a noise maker, as nothing is placed down the barrel that could act as a projectile. However, unlike most carbide cannons that are seen, my version will be built to mimic a real historical cannon. The carbide, which is an inexpensive chemical used to fuel miners' lamps, is found in the form of small pellets, lumps, or powder, and can be obtained cheaply and easily. When mixed with water, it produces a small amount of acetylene gas that makes a loud "BANG" when ignited.

After reading the novel Flint and Silver by John Drake, in which the favored gun of Israel Hands is a Spanish 9 pounder, and coupled with the fact that I have always admired Spanish culture, I became enamored with the idea of building and owning a Spanish cannon. I am also writing a story in which my own ship, the Revenant is a captured Spanish vessel, so its guns in the story are likewise Spanish guns. Spanish cannons from the 17th and early 18th century often times tended to be more ornate and fancy than other contemporary European cannons, so that attracts me to them as well.

I have seen photos of an original Spanish gun now located in California that bore a heraldic crest in the form of a double-headed eagle along its first reinforce, and had ornate "dolphins" (lifting loops); features that I intend to incorporate into my replica.

If you ever get to upstate New York, be sure to visit Ft. Ticonderoga. They have a large number of fancy bronze cannons on the ramparts. Some Spanish, some Dutch, some French, etc. Most have the fancy dolphins and coats of arms. I have not been there for many years, but I was fascinated by all the ornate bronze guns. They are not original to the fort, but as I remember they were donated by a wealthy benefactor at some point, I think in the early twentieth century.

>>>> Cascabel

[Captain Midnight]

I don't mind you asking at all, Korisios! I am planning to build a replica cannon that can be used in parades, festivals, and other similar events. This cannon needs to be safe, and able to be fired with many people looking on, or from a parade float. Thus, I am building it in the form or a carbide cannon, which is basically nothing more than a noise maker, as nothing is placed down the barrel that could act as a projectile. However, unlike most carbide cannons that are seen, my version will be built to mimic a real historical cannon. The carbide, which is an inexpensive chemical used to fuel miners' lamps, is found in the form of small pellets, lumps, or powder, and can be obtained cheaply and easily. When mixed with water, it produces a small amount of acetylene gas that makes a loud "BANG" when ignited.

After reading the novel Flint and Silver by John Drake, in which the favored gun of Israel Hands is a Spanish 9 pounder, and coupled with the fact that I have always admired Spanish culture, I became enamored with the idea of building and owning a Spanish cannon. I am also writing a story in which my own ship, the Revenant is a captured Spanish vessel, so its guns in the story are likewise Spanish guns. Spanish cannons from the 17th and early 18th century often times tended to be more ornate and fancy than other contemporary European cannons, so that attracts me to them as well.

I have seen photos of an original Spanish gun now located in California that bore a heraldic crest in the form of a double-headed eagle along its first reinforce, and had ornate "dolphins" (lifting loops); features that I intend to incorporate into my replica.

If you ever get to upstate New York, be sure to visit Ft. Ticonderoga. They have a large number of fancy bronze cannons on the ramparts. Some Spanish, some Dutch, some French, etc. Most have the fancy dolphins and coats of arms. I have not been there for many years, but I was fascinated by all the ornate bronze guns. They are not original to the fort, but as I remember they were donated by a wealthy benefactor at some point, I think in the early twentieth century.

>>>> Cascabel

Thank you Cascabel, I will definitely have to keep that in mind. My wife is from New York, so perhaps at some point when we go for a visit to her family, we may have to make our way to Ft. Ticonderoga. I have always heard tales of how impressive it is there. As for bronze guns...I do love them!

[PoD]

I'm off to visit the Royal Armouries in Leeds (UK) just after xmas so i'll keep me eye out for any spanish looking cannons while i am there and get photos if there is anything.

[Captain Midnight]

I'm off to visit the Royal Armouries in Leeds (UK) just after xmas so i'll keep me eye out for any spanish looking cannons while i am there and get photos if there is anything.

Thanks PoD! I think I'm all set on the barrel now, but if any of you run across any naval carriages of the four wheeled type that are distinctively Spanish, that will help a great deal! From what I understand, the Spanish held onto their two-wheeled naval carriages well into the 18th century, but when it was realized that that type of carriage seriously hindered aiming and accuracy, they were finally abandoned in favor of the four wheeled type. It is a Spanish four wheeled carriage I am seeking. I think it would be very similarly built to the carriage in the picture that PoD has posted above, but I think that this one is "beefed up" a bit because this is either a howitzer or mortar of some type and would thus need a stronger carriage. Thanks mates!

Edited December 23, 2010 by Captain Midnight

[Captain Midnight]

I've done some long thinking on the subject, and I am now leaning towards making a Spanish cannon proper with the distinctive two-wheeled carriage design. It is not originally what I had planned, but because I want the piece to look the part and be a good representation of a Spanish weapon, I have decided to replicate the Spanish carriage as well. A two-wheeled carriage was not as efficient aboard ship, but it is really what they had, so I will build it like it is supposed to be. Here are pics of a proper Spanish gun. This one was probably a field piece due to its large size, but from the sources I have read, the only difference between their field pieces and their naval guns was the size. The carriage designs would have been identical or very similar. This gun is a true Spanish artillery piece standing guard at the Castelo Sao Jorge fortress in Portugal.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Captain Midnight

[Commodore Swab]

Check my profile gallery under cannons and carriages there is a nice picture of a spanish carriage original and reproduction made by the Viceroy

Swab

[Korisios]

This is al very interresting stuf!

From what I just learned from Captain Midnight, this must be the Spanish Gun with the two weel carriage...

but is this Is the original?

And this the repro?

[Commodore Swab]

This is the spanish gun/carriage

Edited December 27, 2010 by vintagesailor

[Captain Midnight]

This is the spanish gun/carriage

Very nice indeed, Vintage Sailor! Thank you for sharing that! Now we have an early style two-wheeled carriage and a later, updated Spanish four-wheeled naval carriage of conventional design. I think that I shall have to build two carriages; one of each style. The barrel could be swapped around to either one depending upon the application I wish to use it for... If you don't mind me asking, what is the provenance of this particular carriage?

Edited December 28, 2010 by Captain Midnight

[Captain Midnight]

Korisios, I believe that the two carriages you posted could pass for Spanish carriages, with the exception of the wheels. Most Spanish carriages I have seen pics of tend to have either solid, or nearly solid wheels, rather than like the ones shown. Here are a couple more pics of a replica Spanish gun carriage built for a museum in England (I think). Notice the massive, nearly solid wheels shown.

[Commodore Swab]

I would have to get back to you on that, I can tell you that this came from the Viceroy (Lawrence) and as many can confirm he is one of the few who is very knowledgeable regarding cannons.

For example the crest found here is actually Portuguese

As in their coat of arms and flag

Edited December 28, 2010 by vintagesailor

[Captain Midnight]

Aye. The coat of arms I have chosen to replicate on my cannon is this one: this bronze cannon located at the old presidio of San Francisco, was cast in 1679, and was still in service well into the 1800's, although by that time, the Spanish occupants of the Presidio had allowed the gun carriages to fall into a severe state of disrepair.

According to the history of the Presidio, it is believed that this gun was cast in Peru.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Captain Midnight

[PoD]

This Cannon was at a Fort I visited in Spain. No idea if the carriage is original or not but it looks like it is.

[Captain Midnight]

I've been reading up on the Spanish guns, and have read a couple of different accounts which refer to the two-wheeled Spanish carriages as being inaccurate. Here is a quote from one of the sites:

Another point to note is the Spanish often mounted their shipboard guns on the same type of two wheel carriage the gun would use if it were a piece of field artillery. This seriously limited the accuracy of such weapons because it limited the ability for their aim to be adjusted to the right or left.

This is taken from this website: The Spanish Galleons

Can someone help me clarify this just a bit? Try as I might, I can see no valid reasoning to this assumption. I can understand the part about the inferior quality of the iron in their shot affecting accuracy, but the part about it being difficult to train their guns to the right or left due to the two-wheeled carriages makes no sense at all to me. It is a simple matter of picking up the trails and pivoting in whichever direction the barrel needs to go. On the contrary, if anything, it would seem to me that it would be FAR easier to pivot a two-wheeled carriage to the right or left than a four-wheeled style, so I'm not sure I put much of my faith in that assumption. Then I read that the two-wheeled carriages might be hard to run in and out and reload. Again, I don't put much faith in that statement, either. I served as an artilleryman on a gun crew in Civil War reenacting for many years; I can tell you that a bronze "Napoleon" cannon on a two-wheeled carriage twice the size of the Spanish naval guns will move with incredible ease forwards or backwards if wanted, and the Spanish naval guns would have operated on a ship under the same principals, and if rigged with pulleys like any standard naval gun, can easily be run in or out for loading, even with their wooden trails.

So what kind of theory does this information form for me? I believe that the Spaniards were not as effective with their naval artillery not because their guns were inferior or defective, but possibly rather because of the inferior quality of their ammunition, and because of their naval artillery tactics. They usually did not employ their artillery long range, but instead would attempt to close in with an enemy vessel and give a broadside and then board, whereas the English would stand off from afar with their vessels and batter the Spanish from a long distance with their cannons. This enabled an English vessel of smaller size and less armament to defeat a seemingly larger, more powerfully armed vessel.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Captain Midnight

[Captain Midnight]

After some really intense digging on the internet, I finally found a true Spanish naval gun on its proper carriage. The one in the pictures I previously posted is not a naval gun. Although similar in style, that one is a seige cannon. This one is a proper naval gun. It stands no taller than any other typical naval gun on four-wheeled carriages, so it would have been just as easily run in our out of a ship's gun port as any other naval cannon. Notice the small trails of the cannon. Although I am not sure of the need to actually move it from side to side in a naval context, you can see that it would have been easy to do so. All one would have to do is simply pick the trail up "wheel-barrow" style and pivot it on its large wheels wherever it needed to aim. This is the type of gun I intend to replicate. The cannon is located at the old Customs House in Portobelo.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Captain Midnight

[Cascabel]

It seems to me that there would be very little need to traverse a cannon on a ship under way, as the ship is moving horizontally, and the target is also in motion horizontally, so the gun will naturally come to bear on the target anyhow. It would be just a matter of getting the proper elevation for the range, and waiting for the right moment to fire, keeping in mind the roll of the ship. Minor adjustments, if needed would be done using handspikes, which are large levers used like prybars and also used to adjust elevation. To set the elevation, the large wooden wedge is positioned under the breech manually while the weight of the barrel is held up by the handspikes.

>>>> Cascabel