pirate tattoos(not jolly roger) and brandings

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye,

I'll be backin' up Cap'n Gary on tha' last bit....

Back ta th' main topic...

All form o' sea creatures ye might find on th' edge o' maps n' charts o' the tyme I would think would be turned inta a tattoo....

I've had a thought fer a few years o' turnin' me back into a map of, say the Caribbean... havin the different sea creatures 'round th' edges...

I already have th' compass rose on me shoulder...

I'll be gettin a mermaid soon...

[hitman]

Been thinkin bout haveing me avatar and a cross tatted on me arm but then I be wierd

[Jocko]

Ahoy mates,

As of late "life" has gotten in the way of me postin' and such... However, today I just managed to get on here and check a few threads...

Interestingly, I have recently been discussing with Don Maitz about tattoos. I asked him if he ever was asked to, and did he, create images specifically for tattooing... Although he said that he had been asked before, he also told me that he was unsure of the legalities of the whole thing. He wanted to know about being paid royalties every time someone had one of his images tattooed on themselves and he asked the question "Are these people willing to put a 'copyright Don Maitz' on their bodies underneath the tattoo?"

I asked some people I know who are in the business and the bottom line is that there is no way to control who gets what tattooed where... Look at Harley Davidson - How many people have that logo tattooed? I seriously doubt that Harley Davidson gets anything when someone has it done. One possibility that was mentioned was that Don could sell images to a particular shop as flash and get a one-time payment for it.

Anyhow, its a shame - for like some of you, I too have been searching for just the "right" piratical tattoo.... no luck yet...

Jocko

[the Royaliste]

Ahoy mates,

As of late "life" has gotten in the way of me postin' and such... However, today I just managed to get on here and check a few threads...

Interestingly, I have recently been discussing with Don Maitz about tattoos. I asked him if he ever was asked to, and did he, create images specifically for tattooing...  Although he said that he had been asked before, he also told me that he was unsure of the legalities of the whole thing. He wanted to know about being paid royalties every time someone had one of his images tattooed on themselves and he asked the question "Are these people willing to put a 'copyright Don Maitz' on their bodies underneath the tattoo?"

I asked some people I know who are in the business and the bottom line is that there is no way to control who gets what tattooed where... Look at Harley Davidson - How many people have that logo tattooed? I seriously doubt that Harley Davidson gets anything when someone has it done.  One possibility that was mentioned was that Don could sell images to a particular shop as flash and get a one-time payment for it.

Anyhow, its a shame - for like some of you,  I too have been searching for just the "right" piratical tattoo.... no luck yet...

Jocko

Most of us with Harley tats own one, so H.D. doesnt seem to mind..But your buddies ego screams for tattooing his name on a horses ass...Lotsa people have photos of my ship, in their homes, on their avatars, but hey,it's all good, so can the ego's..........Hesounds more like a crook than a pirate anyway..we do enjoy pirate art aboard ship. 'Bloodthirsty Pirate Tales', by Richard Becker, are proudly stocked in the onboard ship's library...

[Albatross Bill]

I'm thinkin' ye've got the horse's arse before the cart on this one. Nuffink wrong wif wantin to pertect yer own original artwork from bein', well, pyrated. Differcult, mebbe, but not crooked.

[the Royaliste]

It be a friggin free country, mate..think wot ye may, but sounds like pure egotistical crap to me...Mickey Mouse is tattooed everywhere, and even Eisner aint bitchin!..Wotever, hope he lives long and prospers off his ego...copyright on my arm, bullshit!...Sailor Jerry was proud to have his art on the bod's o' fightin' men, didnt need his 'name' on 'em, his style was his 'trademark'.....The trick is in original art..If he inked the tat, more power to him, if it's just his design, well, like I said about 'Mickey'.....So, pay him a copyright ,Bill, and show us some 'o his work on skin!! ..Now, tell me ye haven't hummed five or six bars 'o yer favorite song in front 'o a friend or two....By BMI standards, you are guilty of copyright infringement, and 'Papa Zig-Zag??..Why, Ritzla would be really wealthy if tattoo's were covered under 'copyright'...Nevermind the whole 'Napster' and 'Kazaa' thing..

[Captain Charlotte Savvy]

As of late "life" has gotten in the way of me postin' and such... However, today I just managed to get on here and check a few threads...

Amen, and do I hear ye there. The profs seem to see my final semester at uni as a sort of challenge to breakin' me will, and I've had precious little time for anything but school (in one form or another) straight from Christmas Break 'til Spring Break last week. And things look to be picking right back up again now ... but ah well. It's the last bit o' things; they won't defeat me NOW ...

Okay, getting back on-topic now ...

I whole-heartedly agree with the "to each their own" bit after reading the self-given branding essay (considering I'm too much of a wimp half the time to remove a splinter, let alone that ... though in my defense, I did try self-waxing treatments once, which I hear is a pretty painful thing to do ... but I digress again, don't I? ). I don't particularly want a brand -- but I would love a tattoo, if only I could come up with a design that I'd want for life. I'm really, really tempted to one day get the Sparrow-esque bird-above-the-waves-and-sun "crest" on my forearm ... but it would definitely be in years to come. It's an int'resting thought. I won't even get my ears pierced -- but oddly enough, I'd get a tattoo BEFORE I'd get my ears pierced.

I know. Bizarre. ;-)

BTW, to those of you who have tattoos ... for my own future reference, how can you be guarenteed that the parlor one goes to has sterile facilities, right down to only-one-use-each-time needles? Is there a certain legal standard (gov't or otherwise) dictating that, if they say somewhere, "We run a sterile place," they have to abide by certain rules? I may get my nerve up one day to get a tattoo ... but if I can't be 100% sure that I won't walk out with hep C or something of that nature (and I do mean one hundred percent sure, and nothing less), there's not a chance in Hades. Anyone know how parlors work on this issue?

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye Lassie,

Havin' a few inkin's mesalf, and being very goode friends wi' me tattoo Artists, I'll give ye wot I know....

Yes, there is a standard to the sanitation of a tattoo shop - that's a LEGAL tattoo shop, not a back alley job...

Yer best bet is ta go check out a few establishments, they will have their licenses and certifications posted on the wall....

Also, since they don't want a bad reputation, say fer havin' dirty equipment, they should open the fresh needles in from of ye, afore the work begins, some shops will even give ye the needles when yer done, thus, they can nay be reused....

Look around th' shop for sterilization equipment, like an Autoclave, etc...

So, there may be more to know, but this be just my tuppence....

And, Sunday, I'll be gettin' me next bit o' ink.... a nice piece, gonna take 7-8 hrs....

[Captain Charlotte Savvy]

Thank ye, sir -- that be exactly the information I was lookin' for. Much obliged.

Now I just gotta work me courage up sometime ...

[the Royaliste]

My experience over the years is that several friends usually seek to get inked up at the same time..So, talk to those with nice tats around you for references, as besides the regs, word of mouth is definitely spoken here in the tattoo community......

and remember, 'GO BIG'!

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye Lads n' Lassies...

Got me new ink on Friday nite....

Have a pic o' it fresh from under the needle on me profile page here, can't get it ta post here...

Took less tyme than was thought...

Not exactly 'Pyratey' but, very nautical, plus, I has some o' me Compass Rose tat, fixed...

[thepiratecaptainmorgan]

If ye Remember the Movie,

And I Did....

"Had a Brush with the East India Trading Company eh, PIRATE?"

In India, It is very common to MARK a Theif a Theif, etc etc.... Actually Jack Sparrow Would have been fortunate not have lost his Hand for his Theivery.

[Jocko]

Avast there, Mates!!

Before ya start callin' Mr. Maitz a crook , I think ya might not be realizin' who he be! Which also mayhaps the reason why I's asked him the question in the first place!

Don Maitz is the artist who put many a cover on the No Quarter Given Pirate-zine .... as well as many a decor betwix the covers... For those of you not familiar with those things, surely you've 'eard of Captain Morgan's Rum??? Don Maitz be the man who created Captain Morgan's image that's used on all the bottles, ads, etc...

Therefore, since he is so active within the "No-Quarter-Given-Piratical Community" (say THAT 10 times fast!), I figured that he'd be a good one to ask about tattoos, to be sure .....

I can understand his wanting to protect that which puts food on his plate and as I said to him, if'n he wanted to create Piratical-images specifically for tattooing - not only would I be GREATLY appreciative, but I'd also most likely be first in line!!

Good fortune to all ye on the same quest as I - for that "perfect" Piratical Tattoo!

Jocko

[cpts plesur wnch]

I am rather confused now. See from what i have read (which is of course nothing compared to the amazing knowledge of all of you) was it not the palm of the hand that was branded for thievery, in which wasn't the raising of the right hand in court derived from? Or mayhaps i be thinking of another time then?

I also agree with the hangings being more effective, and as for the self inflicted things, i will keep my mouth shut on such issues as i may contain much common sense, as i myself have a pyrate-referenced burn on my left arm...

[PyratePhil]

BTW, to those of you who have tattoos ... for my own future reference, how can you be guarenteed that the parlor one goes to has sterile facilities, right down to only-one-use-each-time needles?  Is there a certain legal standard (gov't or otherwise) dictating that, if they say somewhere, "We run a sterile place," they have to abide by certain rules?  I may get my nerve up one day to get a tattoo ... but if I can't be 100% sure that I won't walk out with hep C or something of that nature (and I do mean one hundred percent sure, and nothing less), there's not a chance in Hades. Anyone know how parlors work on this issue?

A few hints be here...

1. Iffn there be scallywags layin' about th' front door, droolin' and cussin' an' such, ye might want to be shippin' out ta th' next parlor o' ink.

2. Open jars o' leeches are a DEFINITE no-no.

3. Iffn the only flash they got's is airbrushed on th' walls an' signed "Paco 256", ye might be reconsiderin'.

Dorian said it best, methinks...

Tats been 'round fer over 5,000 years...ye'd think they'd be havin' it down by now, but there still be beastie places and palaces...

It been a while since me last inkin', but as a needle-stickin' type meself (a little thingie called acupuncture what I picked up in the China Sea cruise), I don't quite know but that disposable needles should be th' standard...I wouldn't be doin' it any other way...

[Captain_MacNamara]

I too, am on the quest for the perfect piratey tatoo... somehow, a simple skull and crossbones doesn't seem to cut it. Any suggestions for flash art? Or a good artist?

[Nigel]

Arrgh, matey - I be a professional arrrtist, and hapy t'help ye with yer tattoo design. Be it traditional, cartoony, sinister, or whatever.

I have done several tat designs in the past, and be currently in the process of designing a fresh new tattoo fer me sister.

Drop me an email and let me know what yer thinkin' of. I'd be happy t'help ye come up with a good design.

There are too many poorly designed tats out there. Makes me sad; if it be permanent, it oughta be done well. Hell, even if it ain't permanent it oughta be done well - but especially if it be permanent!

[Captain_MacNamara]

Thanky Nigel, Thanky.... 'Ere, 'ave a drink, on me

(email sent)

[Scupper]

If i remember correctly. tattooing came about after sailors were exposed to pacific islander art. They didn't want the tribal tattoos and started drawing thier own and having sail makers, tailors or anyone good with a needle and thread to do the tattoo. Most were of nautical, sexual or mottos draw on them. Hope it helps a bit

Scupper

[Mission]

Yeah. Tattooing was virtually unheard for Europeans to have prior to the Napoleonic era, early 19th century. I have read a few accounts of Europeans who spent time as captives of South American/Carib tribes being tattooed against their will. They felt it was the mark of the devil, not at all desirable as a fashion statement.

If a pirate was to get himself a tattoo, it probably would have Mayan influence, as they did tattooing.

Might be true for most Europeans, but then sailors weren't most Europeans.

As a consequence, one frequently runs across mention of tattoos in the descriptions of runaway sailors found in colonial newspapers of the early 18th century. The ones I've seen all had religious/magical themes.

Don't think there were any tattoos specific to pirates, though. Seems sorta counterintuitive to me--but who's to say?

As to branding with a "P"--several instances of this are recorded as an East India Company punishment during the 1680's and 1690's. When the John Company caught a batch of pirates, it would usually sentence only a few to death. The rest would be branded--so that future merchant captains would know them for what they were.

Regards,

The Corsair

Ah, further proof of the tattooing in prisoner accounts from a similar source as CrazyCholeBlack. (And from no less than corsair2K3. You can't beat that.)

___

Although I actually dug this old thing up from the thread graveyard because I wanted to talk about branding without starting a superfluous thread. I have been re-reading The General History and I came across this in the chapter on Charles Vane:

"But the next Day, the Captain's [Vane's] Behavior was obliged to stand the Test of a Vote [for not attempting to engage a French Man of War], and a Resolution passed against his Honour and Dignity, branding him with the name of Coward, deposing him from the Command, and turning him out of the Company with Marks of Infamy; and, with all those who did not Vote for boarding the French Man of War." [Johnson, erroneously attributed in this volume to Defoe, p. 139)

Now when I first saw the word 'branding,' I didn't think it meant an actual brand, but just an interesting way of noting that he was called a coward. But then they talk about 'Marks of Infamy.' So did the pirates actually brand him? Or did they do something else to indicate infamy? Any thoughts?

[Iron Jon]

A little bit on branding from Wiki -

The punishment was adopted by the Anglo-Saxons, and the ancient law of England authorized the penalty. By the Statute of Vagabonds (1547) under King Edward VI, vagabonds and Gypsies were ordered to be branded with a large V on the breast, and brawlers with F for "fravmaker"; slaves who ran away were branded with S on the cheek or forehead. This law was repealed in England in 1550. From the time of Henry VII, branding was inflicted for all offences which received Benefit of clergy (branding of the thumbs was used around 1600 at Old Bailey to ensure that the accused who had successfully used the Benefit of Clergy defence, by reading a passage from the Bible, could not use it more than once), but it was abolished for such in 1822. In 1698 it was enacted that those convicted of petty theft or larceny, who were entitled to benefit of clergy, should be "burnt in the most visible part of the left cheek, nearest the nose." This special ordinance was repealed in 1707. James Nayler, a Quaker who in the year 1655 was accused of claiming to be the Messiah, convicted of blasphemy in a highly publicized trial before the Second Protectorate Parliament and had his tongue bored through and his forehead branded B for 'blasphemer'.

In the Lancaster criminal court a branding iron is still preserved in the dock. It is a long bolt with a wooden handle at one end and an M (malefactor) at the other; close by are two iron loops for firmly securing the hands during the operation. The brander would, after examination, turn to the judge exclaiming "A fair mark, my lord." Criminals were formerly ordered to hold up their hands before sentence to show if they had been previously convicted.

In the 18th century, cold branding or branding with cold irons became the mode of nominally inflicting the punishment on prisoners of higher rank. "When Charles Moritz, a young German, visited England in 1782 he was much surprised at this custom, and in his diary mentioned the case of a clergyman who had fought a duel and killed his man in Hyde Park. Found guilty of manslaughter he was burnt in the hand, if that could be called burning which was done with a cold iron" (Markham's Ancient Punishments of Northants, 1886).

Such cases led to branding becoming obsolete, and it was abolished in 1829 except in the case of deserters from the army, which were marked with the letter D, not with hot irons but by tattooing with ink or gunpowder. Notoriously bad soldiers were also branded with BC (bad character). The British Mutiny Act of 1858 provided that the court-martial may, in addition to any other penalty, order deserters to be marked on the left side, 2 inch below the armpit, with the letter "D", such letter to be not less than an inch long. In 1879 this was abolished.

In the North-American Puritan settlements of the 17th century, men and women sentenced for having committed acts of adultery were branded with an "A" letter on their chest (men) or bosom (women).

The mark in later times was also often chosen as a code for the crime (e.g. in Canadian military prisons D for Desertion, BC for Bad Character, most branded men were shipped off to a penal colony). Branding was used for a time by the Union Army during the American Civil War. Surgeon and Oxford English Dictionary contributor William Chester Minor was required to perform human branding on deserters at around the time of the Battle of the Wilderness.

The canon law sanctioned the punishment, and in France, in royal times, various offences carried the additional infamy of being branded with a fleur de lys, also galley-slaves could be branded GAL or once the galleys were replaced by the "bagne"s on land TF (travaux forcés, 'forced' labor, i.e. hard labour) or TFP (travaux forcés à perpetuité, forced labour for life) until 1832. In Germany however, branding was illegal.

[Jib]

I seem to recall people branded for beggary in Tudor England. I believe these are considered "sturdy beggars" who could work for a living.

As a side note: Had a black Karate instructor who was branded with his college frat symbol. I asked him about it and he told me "Never mind". He was one tough as nails dude!

[Mission]

So no one can tell me about the branding or not of Vane? Compared to all the journal accounts, I am finding the General History to be rather cold and lifeless in detail. It seems to me that it must have been written by someone who had court accounts and such, but either not as many first-hand accounts as it is claimed he had or a decidedly journalist perspective.

Anyhow, I found this tale of scarring with the intent to sort of brand while typing in my notes and found it fascinating.

NOTE the SASH! (I want a freaking sash - this makes it period!)

“Whilst our Squadron [the Dunkirk Privateers] rode at Anchor in the Groin [Groyne - a structure built to protect ships near shore], there came in some Hollanders, under the notion of Hamburgers, with three Ships new trimm’d up for the King of Spain’s Service. A Boastswain of one of these ships happened in company ashoar with some of our men, were drinking together, the Hollanders began to prate of Religion, upbraiding one of our men for wearing a Cross; and after a while, growing more heated with drink, he became quarrelsome, and swore Sacrament he would not wear a Cross, no, the Devil take him, repeating it often. One of our men beat him down, and fell with him; then kneeling upon his Breast, and holding his Head down, he drew out a Knife sticking in his Sash, & cut him from the Ear towards the Mouth, then from the Os zygoma [cheek bone] to the neather Jaw. Now, said he, you shall wear a Cross, that the Devil do not carry you away.

I was sent for from the next house as a friend to that Religion, and stitcht the Lips of the Wound close together; then sprinkling them with a little pulv. Galeni, [extract of powdered aloes to cause bleeding to stop, often combined with hare’s fur mixed in egg white] applied Pledgits [compresses of lint] with a sarcotick Unguent [unguent generating granulation tissue in a wound], and with Astringents and Bandage dressed him up. The next morning he was let bloud, and the third day after I took off the Dressings, and finding the Wound as it were agglutinated [the wound edges adhering together].in the Slits, I cut out some of the Stitches, sprinkled the Wound as at first, & drest him up with Sarcoticks, with Compress and Bandage. The second day after I drest him again, and cut out the remainint Stitches; and in a dressing or two more cured him. This being the work of Nature, who rarely faileth in acting her part, if we perform ours, in retaining the Lips close together, and defending them from Fluxion [discharge]. The Patient was well pleased with his Cure, though there remained some marks of a Cross. These sort of people wearing them with much pride in their Faces, as marks of their Courage.” (Wiseman, Richard, Of Wounds, Severall Chirurgicall Treatises, 1676 p. 362)