Female Pirates

[Fox]

And as for Bonnie and Read, I always read that they generally dressed as women aboard, but when they went into action changed into men's clothing. Though perhaps this may not have actually constituted a disguises, since they probably could have been recognized as women despite their masculine clothing. Still, it would make more sense to fight in breeches rather than skirts. And I also thought that they became pregnant towards the end of their carreers, rather than the beginning. Anne had a baby while sailing with Rackham, but to my knowledge, Mary's only pregnancy ended when she died of jail fever. Is that accurate?

Yar, Bonny and Read wore men's clothes during battle, but not to try and kid anyone they were men. All of the witnesses at their trial knew them to be women, and most significantly, within a few days of them starting their piratical career a proclamation was issued naming both of them. We can say with some certainty therefore that no attempt was made to hide their gender.

They fell pregnant either before they went to sea or very shortly afterwards, and were pregnant throughout their time as pirates - which wasn't very long. They turned pirate when they stole a sloop from Nassau towards the end of August 1720, and were brought to trial three months later. They were examined at their trial and found to be pregnant, which in the days before ultrasound suggests that they had completed their first trimester. They therefore fell pregnant no later than the beginning of September.

Good point Daniel. I can't think of any specific instances, but it's possible.

[Tartan Jack]

Thanks, Foxe.

Honestly, I hadn't read much on the two ladies out of the (literally) tonnes written about them. There is so much bad and simply made-up stuff on a paper written by people w/ serious agendas and out to make a particular point. Instead, I've been researching lots and lots of other stuff- mostly looking for info on period-correct ships and related topics.

I withdraw my earlier post on them.

[Silkie McDonough]

In the cramped quarters aboard ship I think very few women could maintain a disguise for long as a male. The few known female pirates were definately the exception rather than the rule albeit in Hollywood you'd think they were a dime a dozen and all of them somehow Captains. Yeah! and I'm the King of France!!!

Watch out France!

[Guest]

OK.... this dosen't really belong in TWILL..... but I hadda post it anyway....

https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=13423

Go down to the fourth comic posted in October to learn alla 'bout Girl Pyrates......

(I think this was for Foxe's sketchbook)

[Captain McCool]

Those were brilliant! The one you're talking about w/ the girl pirates that ends at the ren faire made me laugh my piratey arse off. Tell me these are published somewhere! If not, they should be! I want copies!

[Guest]

Those were from the Pyrate Sketchbook Project https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=12948

like I typed, I think that was the one that I drew for Foxe's Sketchbook......

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

Proportionally, there seemed to be relatively few female pirates. Of course, the most famous are, Grace O'Malley, who operated in and around Irish waters in the Elizabethan period (late 1500's), and then of course Anne Bonnie and Mary Read, who sailed the Caribbean with Captain "Calico" Jack Rackham in the early 1700's. And if you look to the East, there was Madam Cheng, who cruised Chinese waters in the early 1800's. There are a few others, and even one quite famous female conquistador, but nearly all of them (with O'Malley and Cheng being noteable exceptions) dressed as men most of the time. I believe I may venture to say that openly female pirates were almost nonexistant, at least in European waters.

However, there were almost certainly those women who dressed as men and were never found out. But since there is no historical record of such women, proving their existance is pretty damn difficult.

oops, already covered... move along, nothing to see here.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Ivan Henry aka Moose

[Fox]

Those were from the Pyrate Sketchbook Project https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=12948

like I typed, I think that was the one that I drew for Foxe's Sketchbook......

I have a sketchbook??

[Jezzy The Butcher]

I love the idea of the Sketch Book project. Wish I'd a known about this back then, but as it is that I travel, doing so many faires, it would be difficult for me to have a good address for everyone to mail to, and the possiblities for damage or loss would be too great. Still, would LOVE to participate in such a project. I enjoyed seeing the pictures of past books. Gave me great ideas for my own.

[Capt. Sterling]

They fell pregnant either before they went to sea or very shortly afterwards, and were pregnant throughout their time as pirates - which wasn't very long. They turned pirate when they stole a sloop from Nassau towards the end of August 1720, and were brought to trial three months later. They were examined at their trial and found to be pregnant, which in the days before ultrasound suggests that they had completed their first trimester. They therefore fell pregnant no later than the beginning of September.

Gee I bet Mrs. F... helped ye with this one...

[Sheila]

I am looking for some good sources on Grace O'Malley, I would be happy to have any suggestions. thank you!

[Tartan Jack]

There is Anne Chambers "Ireland's Pirate Queen: The True Story of Grace O'Malley," the source for practically the entire wikipedia entry on her. Wiki lists these books:

Sources

* Chambers, Anne. Granuaile: Ireland's pirate queen Grace O'Malley c. 1530-1603. Dublin: Wolfhound Press. ISBN 0-86327-913-9

* Chambers, Anne. "Ireland's Pirate Queen: The True Story of Grace O'Malley." New York: MJF Books, 2003. (This is a second, American edition of the book above) ISBN 978-1-56731-858-6; ISBN 1-56731-858-4

* Cook, Judith. 2004. Pirate Queen, the life of Grace O'Malley 1530-1603. Cork: Mercier Press. ISBN 1-85635-443-1

* Druett, Joan. 2000. She Captains: Heroines and Hellions of the Sea. Simon & Schuster, Inc.

* Lynch, Patricia. 1970. Orla of Burren (1954). Leicester: Knight Books, Brockhampton Press Ltd. SBN 340-03990-6 (children's literature, historical novel)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A1inne_N%C3%AD_Mh%C3%A1ille

I don't know the quality or historical accuracy of ANY of those books.

There is also Google to look for info. I'd look to more historical-based sights, rather than the myrid of "celtic," feminist, and other agenda-driven and/or myth-based sites.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Tartan Jack

[Fox]

Gee I bet Mrs. F... helped ye with this one...

True enough

[seabaroness]

Finding good quality sources on Grace O'Malley is hard to find. Much of what is known about her comes from English State papers and Anne Chambers is the writer that does the best job of rehashing them. Anne has her own website. I"m including a couple of essays and other websites that I used when I wrote my thesis on Grace O'Malley.

Appleby, John C. “The Problem of Piracy in Ireland, 1570-1630.” Pirates? The PoliticsOf Plunder, 1550-1650. Ed. Claire Jowitt. Basingstoke, Hampshire, England: Palgrave MacMillan, 2007. 41-55.

---. “Women and Piracy in Ireland: From Grainne O’Malley to Anne

Bonny.” Bandits at Sea: A Pirates Reader. Ed. C.R. Pennell. New York: New York University Press, 2001. 283-98. ebrary.

Hofstra University Axinn Lib., Hempstead, NY. 20 Dec 2007 <http.site.ebrary.com/lib/hofstra/Doc?id=100325007ppg 283>.

Bashford-Synett, Marie and Melissa Thompson. “Interview with Caroline Rowan.”

Tall Girl Shorts.net.17Dec.2007

<www.tallgirlshorts.net/marymary/caroline.html> .

Healy, John. “Grania Uaile.” Lecture delivered in the Town Hall, Westport, Co.

Mayo, Ireland. 7 Jan. 1906. 30 Jan. 2008.

<http://www.libraryireland.com/HealyEssays/Grania1.php>.

[IronTom]

If you look under Women in History on http://www.cindyvallar.com/links.html you will find some of the known pirate women as well as Lady Leaders throughout History. As the father of two Daughters I believe this to be important because everyone should know that though it is easy to say that MEN made history, they were the ones who wrote most of it! Still, there are many examples of Feirce Females and I suspect their were many more than have yet to be discovered. (Hetchepset the lady Pharoah, Madame Cheng, Boudicca for example)

[Fox]

...As the father of two Daughters I believe this to be important because everyone should know that though it is easy to say that MEN made history...

As the father of one daughter, I'm inclined to agree. As an historian, I'm also inclined to agree.

It's important perhaps to define "history" though. For some "history" is a list of battles, dates, and great (wo)men. At its broadest definition though, "history" is everything that has happened up until the time of typing this. This should include battles, but also the stories of people just living their lives. The everyday experiences of our forbears have probably done more to shape us and the world we live in than battles or leaders. It is probably wrong, then, to concentrate too heavily on the famous one-off women who did unusual things - like turning pirate - to the exclusion of the rest of womenkind. Yep, Bonny and Read (et al) were exceptional, and are certainly interesting, but they were only two women. Shouldn't we be just as impressed by the workforce of women who (and let's arbitrarily define our focus to a maritime context) directly assisted in getting ships to sea, by working themselves around docks and harbours, and indirectly assisted by supporting their male consorts working in the maritime industried, and whose work in both senses was nothing less than vital?

[Ransom]

Very well said, Foxe. Well said, indeed.

[Silkie McDonough]

Thank you Mr. Foxe.

[Captain McCool]

Very true, Foxe. I would also point out, however, that we tend to focus on the exceptions rather than the norm when it comes to most of history, not just women. Most of us don't find the personal histories of bakers, cobblers, clerks, lawyers, accountants, etc. very interesting. That's why we tend to focus on the soldiers, sailors, pirates, and what have you. This of course does not apply if you are passionately interested in period food preparation, shoe-making, ledger-keeping, legal proceedings, etc. Which I know quite a few of the folks on this forum are

[Sheila]

Thank you for the sources!!

[Mission]

For those who think the question of period vs. movie re-enacting is the only regularly recurring topic, I present the following for your edification and further research:

Mary Read

Anne, Mary, and Calico Jack?

Most Successful Pirate was Beautiful and Tough

Anne Bonny ~ History

A Discussion of Female Pirates

Women on Ships (in The Shipyard forum)

grace o'malley?

found an article on real-life pirate queen

More Than Bonny and Read?

Pirate Women

[angelgal918]

Anyone know of any solid info on the following:

Flora Burn, American East Coast, 1741

Mary Harvey/Harley/Farlee/Bo-barlee, banana fo farlee...the list goes on. 1725-26

Any like persons of interest along the American East Coast/Carolinas/Caribbean 1660-1750? (Besides the obvious, of course)

[Tartan Jack]

Since this thread was revived anyways . . .

Foxe elaborated on the previous post on Bonny and Reed in this thread, plus mentioned a further 2 women-on-pirate-ships in the Pirate Parley on the Pamlico (May 21, 2011). I'll let those who took notes or the FOXE himself to elaborate on the comments made (which I found VERY interesting, and not really from a "reenacting trying to justify something" POV- but rather from a sheer historical development POV).

I'd give the names, but haven't put my hands on the few notes I took during the Parley and will likely mis-remember it very, very badly right now (been up 5am-1am, running on LOTS of caffeine after 4-5 hours sleep, driving 6 hours, and working 7 more -in that order- after the parley).

Edited May 23, 2011 by Tartan Jack

[Fox]

Anyone know of any solid info on the following:

Flora Burn, American East Coast, 1741

Mary Harvey/Harley/Farlee/Bo-barlee, banana fo farlee...the list goes on. 1725-26

Any like persons of interest along the American East Coast/Carolinas/Caribbean 1660-1750? (Besides the obvious, of course)

Martha Farley was tried for piracy in Williamsburg, Virginia, in August 1728. She was acquitted as she had not taken any active part in the piracies committed by the rest of the crew, commanded by John Vidal, which included her husband. I'm a long, long way from my source materials at present, but what else would you like to know?

[angelgal918]

No piratical activities: Oh bummer (sheerly from a reenactor perspective). A friend of mine pointed me toward a site with several newspaper articles on a Mary Harvey (alias "Moll" or "Mackeig") (far from being a completely academic site, but it was a good read) who in London in 1730 repeatedly got herself into a ruckus at a pub, got arrested, abused the arresting officers, was sent to prison and either A) verbally abused the judge or (more frequently) escaped or attempted to escape prison in various guises.

Just on the hunt for a new character, but don't want to start improvising details until I have reasonable documented sources on said person. If necessary, I might just improvise the whole thing, but would prefer not to.