Female Pirates

[Zorg]

the book "women pirates and the politics of the jolly roger" is a gem, making the connection between anarchism and the syndicalist and autonomist movments and women's activities in piracy and piracy in general:

Publisher: Black Rose Books; (June 1997)

ISBN: 1551640589

Amazon has em in stock for about $17

[Billie Bonnie]

the book "women pirates and the politics of the jolly roger" is a gem, making the connection between anarchism and the syndicalist and autonomist movments and women's activities in piracy and piracy in general

I am going to get "women pirates" soon ! I might start a seperate post just discussin' this book because it looks interestin' ! Especially the part on Blackbeard

-Billie-

[Capt. Flint]

Capt. Shaunassey... I am so glad you mentioned Grace O'Maley. Her story is extremely interesting and I have only been able to find a little written about her. If anyone has a good source for any of her story; please pass it on. She was a fascinating lady of her time and I would love to read more about her. For those of you who are not familiar with Grace O... I strongly suggest you find out about her. You will enjoy it I am sure............ The Capt.

[Charlotte Doyle]

I'll hafta research a bit on Grace, then (if school ever finishes, dang it all, it'll all be over on Monday, I can make it, I can make it . . . Sigh); I'm intrigued. :)

And the "Women Pirates" book sounds great. Man -- I need to find me a job over Christmas Break to finance all my pyracy merchandise needs! :angry:

[Calico Jack]

Hey! We need a female pirate smily!

You mean to say that they are not _all_ already female smileys? Well, except for the Rackham flag, anyhow...

How would one tell, at any rate, being a featureless little smiling head, as to its sex? [No jokes about sex and smiling heads, thanks.]

As to the discussion of Female Pirates, there's been lots of suggestions for good sources. Remember, Anne and Mary are well known because they make for good story, with an amusing end to the tale. Most "real life" pirates don't go down in infamy for generations, male or female, black or green.

- Calico Jack

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

Cap'n Flint,

Sad to say, my on hand references for Grace are very thin being, the book "Under the Black Flag" by David Cordingly. The information I have gleaned on her have come from Internet searches; most especially sites hosted by various branches of the Irish Government and History commisions. Hope this aids you in your research!

Captain Emerald

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

Since the only occupation that a woman could hold was prostitution, I'd say there were probably more women pirates than anyone can count. I know I'd rather be a pirate than the other title anyday.

Oh, and there was a woman pirate I read about called Grainne O'Maille. Was this the same person as Grace O'Malley? The name looks Celtic, but I'm not sure. I guess I'll have to read up on it.

The main reason Bonny and Read got so much publicity is due to their Captain, Calico Jack Rackham and their capture and trial. And they were mean women who disguised their gender and fought like men!

Girl pirate power!

Capt. WE Roberts

[Billie Bonnie]

Here is a song about Grainne Mhaol ...who is Grace O'Malley (Grace is her anglophone name). This is a song that you learn when you are first learning gaelic. The tune is very popular, there is also a working song called Oro, Oro that is about Irish men being forced to work overseas because of the famine.

Se do bheatha a bhean ba leanmhar!

(Welcome Oh woman who was so afflicted)

B'e ar gcreach tu bheith i ngeibhinn

(It was our ruin that you were in bondage)

Do dhuiche bhrea i seilbh meirleach

(Our fine land in the possesion of thieves)

'S tu diolta leis na Ghallaibh.

(And sold to the foreigners)

Chorus:

Oro, se do bheatha 'bhaile! x3

(Óró! You are welcome home!)

Anois ar theacht an tsamhraidh.

(Now that summer is coming)

Ta Grainne Mhaol ag teacht thar saile,

(Grainne Mhaol is coming over the sea)

Oglaigh armtha lei mar gharda

(Armed warriors along with her as guard)

Gaeil iad fein 's ni Gaill na Spainnigh

(They are Irishmen, not English or Spanish)

'S cuirfid siad ruaig ar Ghallaibh.

(And they will rout the foreigners)

Chorus

A bhui le Ri na bhfeart go bhfeiceam

(May it please the God of Miracles that we may see)

Muna mbeam beo 'na dhiaidh ach seachtain

(Although we only live a week after it)

Grainne Mhaol agus mile gaiscioch

(Grainne Mhaol and a thousand warriors)

Ag fogairt fain ar Ghallaibh.

(Dispersing the foreigners)

Chorus

[Billie Bonnie]

Here are some books on women sailors:

Female Tars: Women aboard ship in the age of sail; Suzanne J. Stark

Seafaring Women; Linda Grant de Paw

Women, Work and Sexual Politics in 18th century England; Bridget Hill

Iron Men and Wooden Women: Gender and seafaring in the Atlantic World; Margaret C. Creighton

The Tradition of Female Transvestism in Early Modern Europe; Rudolf M. Dekker

Amazons and Military Maids; Julie Wheelright

Granule:The life and times of Grace O'Malley; Anne Chambers

*************************

I have not read all of these; some I used as sources for a paper I wrote on English Radicalism in the 18th Century Caribbean. I highly recommend Iron Men and Wooden Women though. Granule I got while I was in Ireland...I am not sure how to get it here.

-Billie-

[hitman]

Intrestingly enough Capt. Roberts Many of the female pirates in the orient had been prostitutes and that is how they came to be pirates. I didn't see this posted already but if so here it is agian http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinete...womenlist.shtml

This is a list of known female pirates. Hope the link works

Quick edit here wanted to clarify the "that is how they became pirates" part I ment it to be in agreement with you Capt. Roberts but when I posted it I realised it didn't sound that way many apollogies madame

[Fox]

Captain Roberts, what is your source that "the only occupation that a woman could hold was prostitution"? I think that's a totally erroneous statement.

Also I notice that nobody has mentioned Lady Killigrew on this list yet, which is odd because her tale is so easily verifiable. In the 16th century the Killigrews were Captains of Pendennis Castle, Cornwall, and sometimes Vice-Admirals of Cornwall. This did not of course prevent them from indulging in piracy (all the Cornish are pirates), and it has been said that one or other of the Killigrew men was the model for the pirate king in Pirates of Penzance. Lady Killigrew is known to have been very active helping her husband's (and later her son's) pirates, and on at least one occassion personally led a boarding party against a ship in Falmouth harbour.

Foxe

[Red Maria]

I thought I had mentioned Lady Killigrew in another post (or was that another topic?). On the above said boarding party she killed a man and was tried for murder. Considerable bribes were paid and she was aquitted.

The family never quite recovered from the financial strain of those bribes no matter how much piracy they engagaed in.

[hitman]

Well Foxe The capt isn't exactly 180 out on that yes there were other occupations a woman could hold but they were few and far between. Normaly the choice was a woman was house wife or the worlds oldest proffesion. Unless of course she was a slave then she could work the fields same as any man. Now you are correct that there were women in other fields the thing is these women were the exceptions not the rule. For instance there was a black poet that John Paul Jones had a fasination with. She had been a slave but when her incredible poetry came out (and she passed a board of inquiry) she was regocnized as something of a rareity and to a very small degree (very very small) was accepted into the society of Northeren Virginia.

[Fox]

Off the top of my head here's a handful of common female occupations:

House servants (maids, cooks, companions, housekeepers etc.)

Ale house keepers

shop keepers

seamstresses

weavers

spinners

dairy workers

farm hands (in England at least women worked the fields along with the men as a matter of course)

None of those jobs listed were an exception, they were jobs which women could be found doing in any town or village in England. Of course, being a housewife was a full time job, in addition to which wives often helped at their husband's work. One of the most interesting and telling peices of evidence of the usefullness of women can be seen in the early colonisation of America. Those colonial expeditions which included women were overwhelmingly more successful than those which didn't - see Giles Milton's "Big Chief Elizabeth" for more details.

[Red Maria]

Another thing to be aware of is that officers (including petty officers)wives ofter accompained thier husbands aboard naval vessels. They also oftern served as nurses and even help load the guns during battles. This was from the 17th c. through the 19th c. There's a Mariner's Mirror article on it that I will dig up.

[Fox]

There's a brilliant reference somewhere (I'll see if I can dig it up) to the frigate Duncannon at the siege of Youghal in 1645 which mentions that the ship was blown up by a woman carrying a candle into the powder room. My first thought on reading it was "So THAT'S why women on ships were considered unlucky!" LOL. Anyway, the point is that here we have a woman on a warship, during action, presumably helping the gun crews by fetching powder. This probably also means that she was not an officer's wife, as the fetching and carrying would probably be considered below her, which means that in all probablility she was in fact a seaman's wife, a fact which the author of the document did not seem to think unusual. Of course, it must be borne in mind that the Duncannon was in "home" waters rather than "foreign" at the time, which may have a considerable bearing.

[hitman]

There were indeed many women aboard english warships the exact numbers will of course never be known due too the fact there presece was rarely recorded. At one point there was a bill in the English parliment to award a medal to the women who had been at the battle of the nile. It was not passed on the basis that virtualy any women could apply for it and what proof could they (the English govt.) offer other wise. Of corse many have speculated that that the real reason was the public would then know how many women were actually aboard Englands wall of wood. Now as to other occupations as you posted foxe (and I do not really wish to start a fued about this as we are comparing two diffrent countries with simmilar but notably diffrent (hows that for an oxymoron) cultures) Housekeepers were until its abolition usually slaves. (agian for reference this is America I'm useing not England) After slavery the people who filled these positions might as well have been slaves for if they left without a refrence then they would certianly be left with few options, as too dairy workers and farm hands these options were open to women as long as the woman in question was a familly member (wife daughter etc.). When it comes to shop and ale house keepers women did in fact do the work entailed for the position but the title and associated money was given to a man in most cases.( in the case of shop keeper especially this was true as often the woman was wife or daughter to the owner. I fully concur and stand corrected on weaver,seamstress,and spinner. Now as to refrences on these I am not a librain and despite (or because of) the amount and varity of the topics I read I cannot sight chapter and verse any specific works but in my own defence I must say that where I live is a living lesson in history. Here in Americas deep south times change not opinions. It would not be too incorrect to say these were the choices given my grandmother. Even today a woman with an mind set that falls out of the norm is frowned upon. I'd also like to say that given the labor involved with these jobs its not hard too see how some women felt the urge to choose a diffrent path. I also would like to agree with you that as a blanket statement the choice of whore or pirate is indeed absolutly false. However as a statement to how women of the time must have felt (and this is how I ment my previous post) I feel it does carry some merrit. To be truthful I belive that the situation was not as dyer as it has been portrayed nor can we say that the treatment of it too date has been totally inaccurete.

(Is it just me or is it really stupid that me and foxe are the ones haveing this debate. )

[Fox]

Yes Hitman, it probably is stupid, but then it's not the first time men have argued over prostitutes is it? LOL

I take your point entirely about the differences between English and American cultures, particularly with reference to slavery. I am not in any way an expert on the American history of women's roles (nor yet English), but I think a very important point might be raised about the options available to women two or three generations ago is that changes were made (certainly in England) during the 19th century. Prior to the 19th century women could do most jobs that men could, excepting the particularly skilled ones like carpentry and smithing, and indeed most of those involving animals, AND they kept their own wages. It was during the 19th century that women's lives became much more restricted, resulting in the women's lib explosion of the early 20th century.

[hitman]

Hmmm most of the refrences (mainly my high school history books) never give any indication as to much freedom for women but then we do have the proplem of politics writeing history here. On a simmilliar note what of slaves aboard ship. Large numbers of ships crew were black in fact whaleing was the first occupation here where a black man could accell, and foxe out of curiosity how does slavery in England and or Europe relate to slavery in America. Are they similliar in more than just thier horendous being or do they differ greatly.

[Hawkyns]

. Prior to the 19th century women could do most jobs that men could, excepting the particularly skilled ones like carpentry and smithing, and indeed most of those involving animals, AND they kept their own wages. It was during the 19th century that women's lives became much more restricted, resulting in the women's lib explosion of the early 20th century.

Agreed, Foxe- one more thing the bloody Victorians have to atone for.

Hitman- the slavery issue in England was far different. There were not the huge numbers of field hands that the Southern US economy relied upon. The huge plantations did not exist, small farmers worked their own or tenanted fields. Slaves in England tended to be the houseboy/butler/ostler type. Something to be dressed up and shown off as a curiosity. The poorest class of Englishman was little better than slave- indentured servants, debtors prisons, bound tenants- all these provided the same sort of services that were the slave's province in the US, so there was no need to import great numbers of Africans.

Hawkyns

[hitman]

Hmm Sounds vaguley like what happened here after the abolition of slavery. Share croppers (tenemant farmers) prison farms and the like were the immediante cost of slavery's end well worth it if you ask me and thats comenin from the great grand son of a share cropper Who was in turn the son of a dirt pusher (non slave owning farmer) who fought with the gray.

[Isabella]

Ching Shih was the Chinese Pirate that was probably thought of in the beginning of this post. She was said to have had 80,000 people under her, and a fleat of about 100 ships. She couldn't be stopped even by the British and Chinese Navies.

That's one amazing woman, if you ask me, espeically for her time. There's also a book called "The Blag Flag" I believe talking about the history of Lesbianism in Piracy for women pirates. I've only seen it at Barnes and Noble, but I remember the Ren community buzzed about it when the book came out. (No pun intended on that one.)

But that would probably discuse a large majority of female pirates also.

HA! I saw that book called Booty! I nearly bought it!

[Isabella]

Women in particular of any period were given little freedom to persue interests of great vastness beyond that of the home.

Take for instance the game of Billiards when it was played on a real green of grass. Men were allowed to use cues similar to those we see now, honing skill, creating good completion, but women, were forced to a stick with a flat piece of wood on the end that looked like a scoop, because the male playing cue was too phalised for a woman to play with and still be considered indecent. A woman never became good at the game, so there for never created skill and returned to her "womanly" things.

Also in the 1880's women were only allowed to rack balls in Pool halls, and never play, enless a table was purchased for the home. Thank God I live in 2004.

The idea that a woman was unlucky on a ship is a Naval tradition. It is believe that if a woman were on board that the men would become too preoccupied with indecent thoughts, and not attend to their posts. It wasn't uncommon that women even of high standings would become the object of rape on long voyages by multiple sailors with little or no repremend, because a woman fearing herself looking less than lady like would regress from telling the Captain what had happened.

That was one explanation I was given by a history proffessor.

Interesting question:

Q. How did the remark "son of a gun" originate?

A. Women weren't usually allowed on ships, but those on board had to give birth between the guns to keep the gangways clear - their child was a "son of a gun."

I'll shut up before I end up rabbling on and on.

[Red Maria]

Ching Shih was the Chinese Pirate that was probably thought of in the beginning of this post. She was said to have had 80,000 people under her, and a fleat of about 100 ships. She couldn't be stopped even by the British and Chinese Navies.

That's one amazing woman, if you ask me, espeically for her time. There's also a book called "The Blag Flag" I believe talking about the history of Lesbianism in Piracy for women pirates. I've only seen it at Barnes and Noble, but I remember the Ren community buzzed about it when the book came out. (No pun intended on that one.)

But that would probably discuse a large majority of female pirates also.

HA! I saw that book called Booty! I nearly bought it!

Cheng I Sao eventually was pardoned and allowed to keep her considreable treasure. Eventually she retired to Canton and ran a gambling house/bordello. :)

I supppose you've got keep busy when you retire!

[Isabella]

Well, once a business woman, always a business women, eh?