bodiced gown top construction

[lady constance]

ok............

Micheal and Captain Sterling....{and anyone who has experience or a good educated guess, having seen garments up[ close}

a few questions---

have begun a stays in pink linen.

now......... as to adding the sleeves and arm scythe measurements and cutting the fabric for sleeves......

from looking at all the photos posted, would it be your opinion that, it comes OFF the shoulder at a farther reaching /lower angle than a set of stays that has the strap being tied together?

or could i just pick one of the garments posted and imitate--i am thinking the mauve silk stays sleeve.....

am i correct in my thinking that, i simply add sleeves to a set of stays?

opinions please!!!!!!

[michaelsbagley]

Judging from the pattern in the Janet Arnold book, it seems to be more off the shoulder than regular stays would be. The other difference (again referencing that pattern only), is that the strap seems to be a solid band rather than a laced on wedge. If you look through the various images Sterling and others posted on the Bodiced Gown discussion thread, you will see that the art seems to support that most bodiced gowns were likely constructed in this manner (and please note I didn't say all, as as soon as someone says "all" exceptions have a way of showing up).

So adding a sleeve to a set of stays is close to being on the correct path, but there is more of a difference than just that.

ok............

Micheal and Captain Sterling....{and anyone who has experience or a good educated guess, having seen garments up[ close}

a few questions---

have begun a stays in pink linen.

now......... as to adding the sleeves and arm scythe measurements and cutting the fabric for sleeves......

from looking at all the photos posted, would it be your opinion that, it comes OFF the shoulder at a farther reaching /lower angle than a set of stays that has the strap being tied together?

or could i just pick one of the garments posted and imitate--i am thinking the mauve silk stays sleeve.....

am i correct in my thinking that, i simply add sleeves to a set of stays?

opinions please!!!!!!

[LadyBrower]

You also need to consider which stay pattern you are using.... Because it might not be exactly the right form. If you are doing a 1660's dress, the 1720 stays probably won't cut it.

Then again, I could be wrong....

[michaelsbagley]

You also need to consider which stay pattern you are using.... Because it might not be exactly the right form. If you are doing a 1660's dress, the 1720 stays probably won't cut it.

Then again, I could be wrong....

Or you could be completely correct! From the limited reading I have done so far, it seems the bodice got longer as the 17th century wore on... So a 1660's bodiced gown would have a much shorter bodice than a 1690s one would.

[lady constance]

derailing a bit off topic here...

last night i found a website that has tons of historical painted pictures---www.historicalportraits.com

and looked at so many paintings of women in their gowns in the years of 1690- 1740s. from all countries and nationalities......

so ideas and notions abound in my head!!!!!!!!!{ which makes decidion makign more difficult for me since so many possibilites exist--now i must CHOOSE!!}

Micheal, i hear what you are saying about the stays being attached thru being tied together VERSUS one piece construction.. as my stays are simply CUT out but not sewn, and having plenty of left over fabric , i have time for adjustment and play with the strap and sleeve construction{ not to mention making the stays front a bit longer pointed}...and i DO understand the arm scythe diameter and contructing a sleeve to fit the arm scythe that is being made ....so making it work at this time does not seem to pose any serious difficulties---

i thik it is a simple matter of putting on the stays and instead of finishing each tab for trying them instead joining them as one peice--and reinforcing the seam { and perhaps covering the whole thing again, front to back for stability and preferred look}

looking at the 1660s dress that captain sterling posted, he front of the stays with sleeves are MUCH longer than our period of the 1720s { or so it appears on my screen}, do you agree? differ? tell me what you think---

i am the kind of person who mulls over and imagines actually doing and fitting it all together in my head before i begin construction....kind of like working a puzzle in my head before laying out all the peices....imaginign what has to happen first then second and so on..... and from watching your thoughts posted in the form of words on computer screen--i imagine that you do the same.. problem solve and trouble shoot in your head BEFORE actually constructing the garment as you have a knowledge base from previous construction...am i correct?--you a have a gift with words and garment construction... YAH for you! { and for us whom benefit from your expereince!!}

i hope this is clearly understandable!!!