lining or interfacing for stays? front or backlacing?

[lady constance]

i just cut out 3 sets of stays-- cherry linen,navy linen, and pink linen...........

my last set , i used interfacing and they turned out just delightful {pics in my profile album}.... they were 3 layers thick-- one white linen, one tapestry{ with i ironed on the interfacing to} and the back ecru linen....

and i am wondering that if i am portraying a commoner, shouldnt the stays be laced up the front since i haveno servant to lace me in them { no, silas doesn't mind-- but i suspect that commoners laced them up front,all though all the pictures never show front lacing stays--- unless it is a jacket}

and another side note----to be honest, one set of stays destroys a pair of scissors---even the titanium coated ones!!! it is like cutting bricks!!!! has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

lady c

[callenish gunner]

I'd say the back laced style looks the best (just my opinion) if you pre-lace your stays you can tighten them yourself if you learn a couple of "tricks" ...I have a couple pairs of Gingher Super Shears they even cut through harness leather like butter (aprox. $50 a pair)

Edited January 8, 2010 by callenish gunner

[Silkie McDonough]

Not sure what you are using for boning but mine don't effect the scissors at all. Mind you I don't use my Friskers or Wiss or ANY good sewing sheers, the cheap ones do just fine.

As to the lacing it would depend on what year/years you are portraying. I know that in 1720 they would be back laced. The line of a front lace and a back shape the body differently.

As to a common woman having no servant to lace them, it wasn't needed. People didn't live the way we do now. Many houses contained extend family. Others slept in common rooms or dorms. It is also said that women slept in their stays ...I did once, no biggie but I wouldn't like to make a habit of it. I'm not saying that NO ONE had private housing but there was (and is) always someone around to lace you in.

[lady constance]

hmmm i am suprised that no one uses interfacing-- the iron on kind!

hmmmmmm... i know it aint PC, but no one can tell--and the structure it gives the garment is awesome!!!!

and there is no issue about the gramnet being too warm and not " breathingZ" because of the linen layers....

and has anyone made stays out of wool? tropical weight or other? { yah forget about melton unless you pirate in alaska!}

and wool skirts? tropical weight?

[michaelsbagley]

hmmm i am suprised that no one uses interfacing-- the iron on kind!

hmmmmmm... i know it aint PC, but no one can tell--and the structure it gives the garment is awesome!!!!

and there is no issue about the gramnet being too warm and not " breathingZ" because of the linen layers....

and has anyone made stays out of wool? tropical weight or other? { yah forget about melton unless you pirate in alaska!}

and wool skirts? tropical weight?

The brown petticote (skirt) my wife is often seen in is light weight wool (probably considered "tropical weight"). I think Mary Diamond (or perhaps Haunting Lily? Or both? Someone else entirely?) have a set of stays where the outer layer is wool. I have found that the wool garments (whether they be light or medium weight wools) on the various items Kate has, tend to wear better and last longer than the linen ones. Not sure why exactly that is, but it is what I have noticed.

As for interfacing as lining for stays, I know it gives good shape (it is used on many or most Renn-Faire bodices), but it wouldn't likely be flexible enough to work well with boning (whether you use reed caning or anything else). That is of course me just guessing, but I really can't see interfacing and boning being a friendly combo.

[Lily Alexander]

I have both a medium weight wool and a tropical weight wool set of stays as well as petticotes.

[Jack Roberts]

Whereas the "iron on" interfacing might give you structure, you have to think is it the correct structure. I know this isn't twill but you are making stays. When I make stays I have 4 layers,

1. Outer

2. interfacing

3. interfacing

4. lining

The Outer and both interfacing layers are sewn together with the boning channels. That way the 2 interlining layer create a pocket for the boning. After the stays are boned, I stitch in the lining and the bind them.

Just food for thought.

[Hawkyns]

Kathryn makes hers with a linen layer and a canvas layer that are sewn together to make the channels, then another linen layer for the lining. Hers are all back laced, using handsewn eyelets in a spiral pattern. At least a dozen eyelets on each side, more for longer stays. She uses reed for the boning and they are completely boned, no unboned space anywhere except the shoulder straps. I say lining, but that is not strictly true. To keep the reed from taking a set and not properly supporting, she will alternate which side is out.

Hawkyns

[LadyBrower]

I have been using two layers of canvas weight linen for the inter-layers, which makes it very stiff even before the boning is added. I have also been adding strategically placed 1/2 inch pieces of reed which also gives it a very stiff form. (I have worked out the previous "kinks" in using this stuff too. Thank heaven....)

I'll be posting pictures on facebook when the latest set(s) are finished...

[Kate Souris]

Connie are you cutting through boning with your scissors? Or is it the fabric that's ruining them? I apologize....I don't understand. :S

I am finding myself in agreement with Jack, though. That is how we make my stays.

[lady constance]

to cut the boning i use my husband kliens-- or boning kitchen shears!!!{kitchen utensils to the rescue!!}--- and i do prefer to use plastic boning and cut to length and shape each end rounded}

my scissors are just cutting the linen and wool.... { do you think that perhaps it might be my children cutting God knows what when i aint looking??? hmmmm}

hmmmm...half of me wants to say that i can keep my interfacing questions to myself.... it is very useful on delicate fabrics -- silk, wool, even on linen! and since i do machine sew all my channels for boning, you get such crisp precise lines--and if you mis-stitch, when you undo the stitches one cannot tell at all --the fabric seems to self heal far better than if not using interfacing....

on my tapestry stays, all the tiny threads from the weaving would have been pulled and warped the front fabric design.. so interfacing was imperative...

[lady constance]

re reading what i posted, i can see that i have not explained well what i mean by interfacing... and where i am placing it........

i use a medium weight fusible interfacing on either the back of the front fabric OR one one piece of the linen that is to be sandwhiched between and is part of the composing three layers where you make your channels for the boning.....

and just for fun and FYI, you can buy a skirt from a thrift store a few sizes LARGER than what you would currently wear, and take it apart for the fabric alone to make a set of stays from it--- great and inexpensive way to get wool, silk, or wool/silk combos---- try to get a skirt that does not have alot of tucks for shaping...{ although the tucks can be undone and opened up and if it was a well made skirt, you lose no inches... you just have to press open the tuck to lay it falt again.... and stay away from skirts that have gores unless they are large, wide gores at the bottom-- yah dont want a seam running thru your stays-----aint nothing like paying 2 bucks for 100% wool skirt and your stays then the only cost is your boning, thread and time!

[Jack Roberts]

I guess the use of fusible interfacing isn't period. So I don't think it should be in a period reproduction garment. If it doesn't bother you then use it.

I also use a rotary cutter for my fabric cutting. So I can't comment on the scissor wear. Any time I change a blade on it its because I have a nick in the blade.

[LadyBarbossa]

Hmm... interesting.

Never used interfacing no matter what it was. I've always just used the cotton ducking for the outter and inner part of my stays. Current stays I'm working on ( more mid-18th to late really), is of the blue striped ticken. Enough support for me (I'm no skinny minnie) and the boning won't be a problem (I use reeding as it's the most comfortable and highly recommended since I began reenacting).

Best way to find for you is just to experiment.

And as to lacing... Since it's usually just me and no one really sees my stays, I have the lacing in the back (which I usually never undo, but I can adjust) and in the front. That way I can lace it up myself when no one is around. May or may not be period, but then again, the stays is something that's most often (but not all the time) NOT seen as it's underwear. It's like you exposing your bra in this day and age.

~Lady B

[LadyBrower]

Lady, to my knowledge, front and back lacing is period- but I am not sure if it was mostly for early and after pregnancy. I'd have to check. I have one set that laces in back, and one set that is both front and back (because of weight changes...) but the front lacing is over a stomacher- so it looks rather decorative. :-) the dual lacing is great for multiple reasons, but I really like having a smooth front also. I *can* put my back lacing stays on myself, it's just a little more challenging.

[Jack Roberts]

And as to lacing... Since it's usually just me and no one really sees my stays, I have the lacing in the back (which I usually never undo, but I can adjust) and in the front. That way I can lace it up myself when no one is around. May or may not be period, but then again, the stays is something that's most often (but not all the time) NOT seen as it's underwear. It's like you exposing your bra in this day and age.

~Lady B

Actually stays are an outer garment. It would be exposed and shown. About the only time they covered is with a stomacher.

Of course this is coming from a PC perspective and since we're not in "Twill" I add this caveat.

(Dang I feel like I'm starting to sound like an a**. I hope not. )

[Kate Souris]

Sometimes they were covered with a closed front mantua too though. I have a mantua that the front can be closed on or it can be folded back into the 'V' shape. And we looked at a good deal of plates from the Cries of London of common women in closed front mantuas.

[Jack Roberts]

True, true... I forgot to mention that one.

[Capt. Sterling]

From what I have seen stays for our time frame were considered underwear and you did not see them except perhaps for a bit in front where the mantua is open...often this is covered by a stomacher...but to see folks walking around in just petticotes, shift and corset, so far as the evidence I have seen, is NOT considered proper/respectable behavior...the same way you would not see the average woman outside with a gown but no stays under them. Aye there are some pictures of the poor where it seems very obvious that the woman is not wearing them but again she is classified as being poor. Same goes for caps through out most of our time frame... loose, unattended hair, would have been considered improper. Even riding habits were worn over stays.

Again remember the mind set of the period...just because today a woman might be hot wearing a mantua over the stays to hide them, or walking about with just stays and petticoates might be considered sexy nowadays, does not make it so for our time frame..even plates depicting courtesans show them dressed properly and usually in very nice garments. Often one finds plates showing women in states of undress at home STILL wearing some sort of robe or circular mantelet over their stays. One actually wonders if stays had the same erotic attachment that definitely developed later in the 19th century as erotic paintings from the time usually show women without stays in some sort of loose gown like garment...

As to front and back lacing, aye they had both according to Waugh right through our time frame, and also half boned stays as well.

Now back to bodiced gowns...

Edited January 9, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[Capt. Sterling]

Actually stays are an outer garment. It would be exposed and shown. About the only time they covered is with a stomacher.

Sorry Jack, I beg to disagree here.

[lady constance]

hmmm i am going to stay with back laced stays.....

and no , Jack, i dont think you are starting to sound like a braying animal of any sort!

i asked for advice and opinions and got it-- and i appreciate it!! { i see no sense in asking for an opinion and some one elses expereince then getting all peepy that they told you what they know and do and prefer and WHY!}

lady constance

[Capt. Sterling]

Honestly it all just boils down to how accurate a person chooses to be..the more authentic the more it makes sense to go that extra mile and do things the way they did..

[Capt. Sterling]

As to wool versus linen in garments... it really depends on where your character "lives". Wool seems to be the most common fabric for petticotes, mantuas, etc in, what we now call the UK. But Williamsburg has evidence that linen was very acceptable for petticotes, mantuas, etc. here in the southern colonies and the Caribbean.

As to safety, wool petticotes are still the best around a blazing camp fire.

[Capt. Sterling]

Kind of reminds a body of Victorian Combing Robes

Edited January 9, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[Capt. Sterling]

Oh and since I completely missed the main gist of this thread.. Linen canvas for interlining...approximately 7.0 oz weight or higher... I have not seen, at least not in my local fabric stores a suitable weight interfacing that will "hang" the same way and give the proper support... and remember this was often stiffened with paste or glue...