Quartermaster James Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Title and description pretty much say it all. Curiosity compels. FWIW: I was thinking of starting with a .662 and 30 grains of 3f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascabel Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Title and description pretty much say it all. Curiosity compels. FWIW: I was thinking of starting with a .662 and 30 grains of 3f. It makes a HUGE difference if you are speaking of a live load with ball, or a blank load. Also if you plan to use a wad (which I don't reccommend ) or not. >>>> Cascabel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 No wad, just PRB. Sorry for my lack of clarity; when I say shooting I mean live rounds. My musket is also .69, and she likes the .662 RB. I haven't had a chance to mic the bore on the Tower, but thought I'd start with the .662 with a pillow ticking patch. If these barrels run large, I've also got .672 and .678 round balls at hand. The rule I was taught for a starting point when working up musket loads is 1 grain of powder per caliber. I've never heard any similar rule for pistol loads, but note that they run 1/2 that, or less. I understand each barrel has it's own characteristics (I do, however, suspect this is much more significant in long arms) but was just wondering what ball & load combos others shoot when they shoot live rounds from these guns. Oh! And I am speaking of the round barreled smooth-bore version of this gun here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam McMac Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Uh oh here we go... I have the same questions for my .45 rifled Kentucky pistol. Ive been told to wad when firing blanks but not quite sure on the grains was gonna work myself up to the proper boom size hahaha _Liam McMac Celtic and Pirate Tailor Beware the Iron Brigade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QJ the ticking patch isn't needed for the smooth bore you'd do just as well with a bit of paper as in what would be used from a cartridge. A 30-40 grain load should do fine with a wadded ball. Your range will be about 20-25 yards beyond that the ball will have little to no accuracy and even less stopping power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Thanks Gunner! I definitely prefer cartridges. I just use the ticking when I'm too lazy to roll them! Never thought to just use some paper as wadding. I guess that's what comes from spending too much time around rifle shooters!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Military cartridges had the ball included in the tube once you poured the powder down the barrel, you inserted the rest of the cartridge in on top of it and tamped it down with the ramrod. Once loaded into the paper tube you didn't touch the ball again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Thanks Gunner! I definitely prefer cartridges. I just use the ticking when I'm too lazy to roll them! Never thought to just use some paper as wadding. I guess that's what comes from spending too much time around rifle shooters!?! If you are going to load and fire immediately then you don't need to wad. A lot of people do to get a louder bang. The problem is that if you can't get it to go off for some reason then you have to use a worm to pull the charge. If you don't wad then you can just dump the load. If you are going to carry your pistol then you have to wad to keep the charge from falling out. BTW, you can also use grass or leaves to wad. Choose green ones and you are less likely to start a fire. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Military cartridges had the ball included in the tube once you poured the powder down the barrel, you inserted the rest of the cartridge in on top of it and tamped it down with the ramrod. Once loaded into the paper tube you didn't touch the ball again. That's how I make mine. No glue. Tied at the tip (below the ball) then crimped and tied again above the ball. Powder on top of that, flatten, fold the sides in, then fold the top down and tuck it in the diagonal seam. Just gotta work up a bunch with the pistol load now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Are you just target shooting or are you planning to use this for field firing (i.e. hunting)? live vegetation down the barrel imparts moisture to your powder fairly quickly and causes additional fouling in the bore. The smaller the ball the easier it is to load but you sacrifice accuracy due to the slop of the round; a snug fit without constriction will increase the accuracy of the projectile and the ballistic dynamics of your range of fire. Wadding with a live load does several important things to the performance of your weapon, first it increases the compression behind the projectile allowing the propellant (black powder) to give maximum thrust to your projectile, increasing both range and accuracy to your ball. The relatively light loads used in pistols and the reduced range of the projectile would need to be optimized by efficient use of the ballistic properties originally designed into the weapon. THANK YOU I hunt with smooth bore muskets and pistols and want my knockdown power to do what the weapon was intended to do from the start and that is to kill what you're aiming at. Every shooters kit should include a ball extractor and fouling worm, pulling a ball or offloading a charge is no big deal if the need should arise. Serious Shootists should understand their weapon and all the intricacies of their desired use of their weapon. Where as most reenactors will never load a live round on their cartridge or fire their weapon at either targets or prey/enemy; their firelock is used for smoke and noise(window dressing for a show). Enjoy learning to use your weapon and try to do so safely, understanding the full potential of these devices will increase your respect of their full potential when used in controlled scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 If your question is addressed to me: I have not put in enough time with my musket to use it hunting yet, at least not humanely. So it's only target shooting for now. Unfortunately, circumstances this year did not allow me as much range time as I wished, and I am still trying out various ball/load combos for the musket. I haven't even begun patterning her for shot. I do intend to take her out after upland game. She is a fowling piece, after all. The pistols I have not considered for hunting, just target shooting. What do you take with yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) If you're question is addressed to me: I have not put in enough time with my musket to use it hunting yet, at least not humanely... Well said, sir. The very thing I'm teaching my kids. They don't get to carry afield until they can say the same and prove it on the range. I wish more of us had that in mind when we go out. We owe it to the animal to kill it quickly and not slop it all up because we are unsure of or unused to our guns. Edited December 16, 2009 by Captain Jim My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) With both my Brown Bess and my Blunderbuss I have taken whitetail dear and with the Bess, 7-8 years ago, I took a black bear. I routinely use my pistols for varmint hunting (groundhogs and raccoons) using #4 shot. When I was in better health a few years ago I did use one of my pistols, a .50 cal. rifled bore to take a 6 point buck. I have also used one of my Lancaster long rifles also a .50 cal to hunt elk in Alaska.I have used the Bess with shot (#4) for wild turkey, taken at least a dozen over the past 6-7 years. Pennsylvania deer and turkey are good eating, my hunting usually keeps my freezer full over the winter. This season I only went out one day during turkey season and got a 24# Tom. Deer Season (regular) began the day we left for PIP. Flintlock season begins the day after Christmas until Jan. 9th; I'm planning on going out then with my son Joshua. I may try it this year with a . 69 call. doglock musket or a French 1717, using .672 ball with 100 gr. ffg. I have hunted with flintlocks since 1969, and have always had pretty good luck finding game in the forests in northwestern Pennsylvania, Wyoming and Alaska. Edited December 16, 2009 by callenish gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Uh oh here we go... I have the same questions for my .45 rifled Kentucky pistol. Ive been told to wad when firing blanks but not quite sure on the grains was gonna work myself up to the proper boom size hahaha I have a CVA .45 Kentuckian pistol, mine likes a 40gr. charge and a .440 patched round-ball. It is my back-up for deer season. I took a nice doe with it from 35 yards three years ago, after I had just shot another doe with my .54 rifle, they wer travelling together. For target shooting I back it off to 30 gr. and have no problems with sighting differences, (shoots the same at target ranges). Hope this was a little help. P.S. the powder charge is 3f Goex Blackpowder @40 gr. Bo Edited December 16, 2009 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Are you just target shooting or are you planning to use this for field firing (i.e. hunting)? live vegetation down the barrel imparts moisture to your powder fairly quickly and causes additional fouling in the bore. The smaller the ball the easier it is to load but you sacrifice accuracy due to the slop of the round; a snug fit without constriction will increase the accuracy of the projectile and the ballistic dynamics of your range of fire. Wadding with a live load does several important things to the performance of your weapon, first it increases the compression behind the projectile allowing the propellant (black powder) to give maximum thrust to your projectile, increasing both range and accuracy to your ball. The relatively light loads used in pistols and the reduced range of the projectile would need to be optimized by efficient use of the ballistic properties originally designed into the weapon. THANK YOU I hunt with smooth bore muskets and pistols and want my knockdown power to do what the weapon was intended to do from the start and that is to kill what you're aiming at. Every shooters kit should include a ball extractor and fouling worm, pulling a ball or offloading a charge is no big deal if the need should arise. Serious Shootists should understand their weapon and all the intricacies of their desired use of their weapon. Where as most reenactors will never load a live round on their cartridge or fire their weapon at either targets or prey/enemy; their firelock is used for smoke and noise(window dressing for a show). Enjoy learning to use your weapon and try to do so safely, understanding the full potential of these devices will increase your respect of their full potential when used in controlled scenarios. If I'm live-firing then I usually patch my ball. I've had unpatched balls develop a spin and veer off to one side or another. Everyone should have a worm and ball-puller as part of their kit but I've had to lend mine out several times. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Military cartridges had the ball included in the tube Just for funsies.... I think it is in Arms and Weapons of America.... or something kinda close.... (I'd have to dig out the CD I burned it on to get the exact title of the book...) But it shows some early cartridges... and they left the sprue on the ball when it was cast... then tied the cartridge around that......so the ball was exposed, and the paper cartridge was tied to the sprue... kinda weird... but they once did it that way..... OK... they didn't keep doing that for very long.... but it was done that way for a short period of time.... <silly weird trivia mode OFF> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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