Mr.Tignor Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Has anyone else noticed that, in more than one period image, sailors are seen wearing their cocked hats backwards? At first i though it was just the way the are was drawn, but not that i look closer, it seems like they really are on the other way. Iv noticed especially in images slightly after our era(1730's-1800), but its shown in earlier pictures as well. In this picture(you all know what its of) 2 or3 sailors on the left seem to have their hats backwards..... and this(1750's) definitely apparent in this one(1760)....... After seeing these i still didnt quite believe it, bbuutt during a visit to colonial williamsburg, i looked at what they had on sailors. In an illustration in one of their books they clearly show a sailor with his hat the other way(form 1750's i think). And on top of that when i saw the sea rats atlantic this past april( i didnt notice then), i realize a few of them had their hats the other way too. has anyone else noticed/can give me information on this?? Monsieur René Truffaut - Sailor - grenadier - flibustier - free man (for now) .........I am french, why else would i have this outrageous accent, you silly man!..........You don't frighten me, English sea dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Capi-tain" you and all your silly English Pieeer-raghts........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yeah, I know my group has talked about it often. I wear my grey hat backwards now and again. I'm pretty sure I picked the habit up from Foxe, who was the first person I recognize having pointed it out as appearing in illustrations of sailors from the period. Fwiw, you see it in at least two RevWar illustrations of British soldiers. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 After having seen a few illustrations where they were worn slightly off-center, that's how I wear mine. But I'd never seen pics of them actually worn backwards. Early rebellious fashion statement? ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBrower Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Could it have anything to do with wind direction? (sorry if that sounds stupid) Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Mr. Merriweather wears his backwards a lot due to the Woodes Rogers print... fwiw, try drinking out of a large tankard with your hat worn properly... (not pushed waaaaayyyy back on your head like some old, bad Hollywood western) and see just how often you smack the brim when bringing the vessel to your mouth... turn the hat around and you are no longer hitting the brim, which I have found no historical evidence to back it up, but makes you wonder... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 So there I was, standing on the deck of a ship, and I wanted to check the sails. I looked up, and what did I see? The peak of my hat. So I turned it around, and then it dawned on me... My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Could it have anything to do with wind direction? (sorry if that sounds stupid) Doesn't sound stupid at all, although the reason I often switch to a cocked hat instead of the Beaver, is the wind... I have not found the cocked hats to blow away unless we're talking gale force winds or poor fit... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Early rebellious fashion statement? That may be the case during the Revolution War. From what I remember, there are orders being issued from on high telling the officers to tell the men to turn their hats around the right way. The men were turning their hats around backwards, then dropping the back (now at the front) down to form a visor. Cocked hats don't offer much shade when worn right. And soldiers being soldiers... sometimes take to doing things the practical way over the "by the book" way. And as a grunt in the line, you really do have to push the limits of jaunty hat wearing! After having seen a few illustrations where they were worn slightly off-center, that's how I wear mine. The position of a soldier under arms is such that his left eye is over his waistcoat buttons. With the left eye over the waistcoat buttons, a hat worn centered on the forehead would make for a very difficult "shoulder arms" due to the peak on the left hand side being in front of the shoulder. So the hat is worn with the peak over the left eye, and at a very jaunty angle. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 So there I was, standing on the deck of a ship, and I wanted to check the sails. I looked up, and what did I see? The peak of my hat. So I turned it around, and then it dawned on me... Hmmm funny, I don't have this problem... perhaps because of one eye??... don't have this problem with the beaver either... but I could see a long musket getting in the way, after all the evolution of the cocked hat had the center corner moving closer and offset to accommodate muskets for infantry...who of course, are not sailors...but just try holding a backstaff with a cocked hat on right way round, perhaps they just wanted to show of their handsome faces.... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Hmmm funny, I don't have this problem... perhaps because of one eye?? You obviously are in need of a bigger hat! My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Doesn't get much bigger than the beaver..although my cocked hat's brim is no smaller than yours... although perhaps I compensate more by turning or tilting my head more than the normal in order to see because of the blind eye...i.e. I adjust my person in order to see, not my clothing .. and I have noticed with the beaver, that when the wind does pick up... leaning into it properly will keep that one on my head longer...can't use the backstaff with the beaver either... Edited June 28, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tignor Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 i do wonder if that was something done only by sailors. iv been looking and havnt found anyone else doing it....how strange. Monsieur René Truffaut - Sailor - grenadier - flibustier - free man (for now) .........I am french, why else would i have this outrageous accent, you silly man!..........You don't frighten me, English sea dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Capi-tain" you and all your silly English Pieeer-raghts........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theM.A.dDogge Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 i took it has more in revelry....most i have seen(not all)....seem to be in a drunken mob...or otherwise imbibing mood.....and it seems that i have often...while imbibing ...end up wearring it seemingly backwards.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oderlesseye Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I have always worn me hat backwards as a sign of rebellion to the prim and proper way of the brutish naval officer who mistreated me. http://www.myspace.com/oderlesseyehttp://www.facebook....esseye?ref=nameHangin at Execution dock awaits. May yer Life be a long and joyous adventure in gettin there!As he was about to face the gallows there, the pirate is said to have tossed a sheaf of papers into the crowd, taunting his audience with these final words: "My treasure to he who can understand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silas thatcher Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Could it have anything to do with wind direction? (sorry if that sounds stupid) Doesn't sound stupid at all, although the reason I often switch to a cocked hat instead of the Beaver, is the wind... I have not found the cocked hats to blow away unless we're talking gale force winds or poor fit... "the beaver" ??? what kind of hat might that be ?? oops !!! lack of knowledge showing again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 the flat brimmed gray hat I usually wear is made of Beaver skin. "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian McBrian Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 From what I know...Blackjohn is right...during the rev war the hat was either cocked to the side or worn off to the side so that the soldiers could carry the rifle at "order arms". So the rifle was on your right shoulder and the hat (so as not to interfere with the rifle) would be worn over the left eye, or backwards...I would have to consult with my rev war freiends buy=t I am 85% sure this is why the hat was worn this way......I will be back with legit sources later Half Moon Marauders Irish Diplomacy... is the ability to tell a man to go to hell so that he looks forward to making the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 You sort of have it... with "Order Arms" the musket is carried in the right hand, the hand grasping the cock and trigger guard with the trigger guard turned forward. Because the hat is worn over the left eye, the right peak is well back enough that it doesn't interfere with the hat. On "Shoulder Arms" the musket is carried on the left side, the hand grasping the butt, cock in tight, trigger guard pointing backward. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I guess none of you have tried to kiss a girl with a tricorn on. The backwards wearing makes it far easier to kiss a lass without 1) having her head bump your hat off into the drink and 2) blinding her with the point. :) (Yes, the voice of experience - lots of one eyed gals in Seattle because of me.) -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Misson Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Doesn't get much bigger than the beaver..although my cocked hat's brim is no smaller than yours... I see your hat...and I'll raise you one. (My hat's bigger than yours?) Edited June 28, 2009 by Raphael Misson “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I guess none of you have tried to kiss a girl with a tricorn on. The backwards wearing makes it far easier to kiss a lass without... blinding her with the point. :) Hence the origin of "kissed a girl and made her cry." My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oderlesseye Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I see your hat...and I'll raise you one. + Edited June 28, 2009 by oderlesseye http://www.myspace.com/oderlesseyehttp://www.facebook....esseye?ref=nameHangin at Execution dock awaits. May yer Life be a long and joyous adventure in gettin there!As he was about to face the gallows there, the pirate is said to have tossed a sheaf of papers into the crowd, taunting his audience with these final words: "My treasure to he who can understand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian McBrian Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 ahhh thank you for the correction oderlesseye lol. I get the commands mixed up (you would think I would know them in the military but I am a wrench slinger and not carrying a rifle all that often lol), but the miltary did wear tricorns cocked differently than the civilian one for shoulder arms even if the hat is small enough to not really interfer with the rifle. Maybe thats why somepeople wear baseball caps backwards nowadays....so you dont hit the woman with the brim when you go to kiss them lol Half Moon Marauders Irish Diplomacy... is the ability to tell a man to go to hell so that he looks forward to making the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Misson Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I see your hat...and I'll raise you one. + Now, let's see a pic of you wearing it. Sterling and I wear ours all the time. Having a big hat and regularly using a big hat are two different animals - you've got to be used to handling your wind-gathering potential flying saucer! “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oderlesseye Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Now, let's see a pic of you wearing it. Sterling and I wear ours all the time. Having a big hat and regularly using a big hat are two different animals - you've got to be used to handling your wind-gathering potential flying saucer!/quote]Now thats not really upping the ante ..now is it? I had that hat made for my fantasy / voodoo pirate. I still am working on the rest of the kit.. So ye just have to wait for pics. I will say too~shea' as to my wearing that big hat on a regular basis.. You has me thar~ Edited June 28, 2009 by oderlesseye http://www.myspace.com/oderlesseyehttp://www.facebook....esseye?ref=nameHangin at Execution dock awaits. May yer Life be a long and joyous adventure in gettin there!As he was about to face the gallows there, the pirate is said to have tossed a sheaf of papers into the crowd, taunting his audience with these final words: "My treasure to he who can understand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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