LadyBrower Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 If only people today were so thrify... I can't remember if I asked yet, but are all the examples available that "waistcoat" style? And I know I mentioned it to Lily via chat, but has anyone else found anything on corded stays/ jumps prior to the regency era? That type of garment would provide support but flexibility. Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Capt. Sterling Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I can't remember if I asked yet, but are all the examples available that "waistcoat" style? ?? not sure I understand yer question ?? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Also of interesting note: they believe that the fabric used in this waistcoat was recycled from a pair of bed hangings, along with the embroidery... they date the fabric and stitching back to mid 17th century.They also noted due to the expense of such an item, that it was not unusal for textiles to be recycled. hmmm did mention that that they believed the fabric was recycled... which seems to be rather the norm for folks back then.... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
LadyBarbossa Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey, Lily.... These might be a bit post GAoP... but a possible good understanding of jumps: http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_189.htm http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_532.htm Both from Vintage Textile. Granted, again, not GAoP, but gives an idea. Now this site calls them Ladies Waistcoats, but arguably, I think they were/could be termed jumps. Most of what I've seen, jumps could be either one - unboned or lightly boned. Yes, the V&A had some. And check out the Met Museum site and do a search as they had some closer to the GAoP time frame. The one I fancy most was a waistcoat like pair that was form fitting around the torso but at the waist it flared off and was loose. Sleeveless. The only thing I found odd... was none of these had lace holes in the front. I don't know if they were pinned or there was something else. No buttonholes either. I still find it difficult to believe a lot of attire during the 18th c were pinned, safety pins were not of this era... I know I couldn't keep myself from getting poked and bleeding. Hope these kinda at least spark some curiosity. I haven't found much else either. Eager to see what other Jumps examples are out there. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous!
LadyBrower Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I can't remember if I asked yet, but are all the examples available that "waistcoat" style? ?? not sure I understand yer question ?? Those few pictures show a garment that looks very much like a vest and it is long and looks like a man's waistcoat. Are there any short examples that look more like stays? And what was the purpose of the length? Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
LadyBrower Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Hello? lol. I have some fabric I was thinking about making a set of jumps or a waistcoat out of for that before stays/ after stays part of the day for comfort... and because they would look cute with jeans and a jacket in the fall.... Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
lady constance Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Lady Bower, :) check out any of wettaugh{google the artists and his work} { the spelling is all wrong i am sure!!}........ he absolutely loved painting the backs of womens dresses......his painting are from before and in the time of the GoAP....... there is painting called " the compromising proposal".... there are 2 women--the woman sitting on the left-- she is in a SHORT jacket , like the jumps being spoken of......the painting is dated 1714, i beleive......... and i have made such a short jacket/ coat...... as far as i can gather, if artists were rendering paintings beholding items of the day, more than likely they were seen quite often.. if the rich wore them , eventually they filtered down to the poor/ common people... who probably made them out of lesser quality fabrics........ gonna see if i can upload my pic....
lady constance Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 i cannot for the life of me, figure out how to post any picture anywhere here!! but i have no doubt that MANY types and lengths of jackets existed.... we have only to look at period art and artists...... and there are volumes of them!! what survived from that era--not much from the common man and womans life..... but think of human nature which has changed very little down thru the millenia, if it has changed at all!! get a book on a period artists from the ages you desire to fabricate jackets from..... peruse the pictures.. take your clues from art that was depicting life back then.......and have fun at the machine!!
LadyBrower Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 My dear, I cannot find that painting... I am thinking of Jumps in particular because of the lack of sleeves. Also, because I would imagine they may offer a little support in the bust area and well, they need containment. But I would be interested in looking into jackets as well. Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
michaelsbagley Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I'm quite certain that Constance is talking about Antoine Watteau Link to Wikipedia article on him. He does some great work that reveals some interesting points on period French stuff (and some items that may be universal?). And I'm sorry I am not strong enough with his work to remember off hand which painting or image you are talking about to help find it... I hope the correct name (if it is him) helps direct you on the way though.
LadyBrower Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Thanks Michael, that spelling helped me find it, I think... I found it, as "an embarrassing proposal" I notice the jacket on the left there... This is dated 1715-1716 Edited July 28, 2009 by LadyBrower Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Silkie McDonough Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Problem with the jacket is that we don't know what she has on under it.
Jack Roberts Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Right Silkie. I would say she is still wearing stays underneath. Because we know when women wore their riding outfits they still wore stays under the waistcoat and coat.
LadyBrower Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 That makes sense, just because a woman is wearing a man's shirt, she (should) still be wearing a bra... I think the jacket turned into a tangent, but I think it is interesting that the few examples of "jumps" have a similar flair to the jacket pictured. Which brings me back to my question of "what is the purpose of the length"? Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Silkie McDonough Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 The length could be to keep it down so that it doesn't tuck into the petticoat by accident? It could also be simply a fashion statement, how it lays, where it draws attention to and from. Could be that the longer jackets and mantuas were simply too long and got in the way. I could go on speculating but I am guessing that like me you would like actual answers hu? lol
Salty Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 ok as i understand, jumps were meant as an informal piece of attire for the home. what i have were called jumps by the lass whom made them and so that is what i hae called them. I also hae seen picture of what looks like the female verson of a waistecoat....my sources are no differnt thus far then what is already been quoted. salty Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
lady constance Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 yah know-- i tend to gravitate towards art rather than text for research, because no one would have hung a painting in their home that was way out of line with the current days trends....back then may of the dutch were frowned upon for still lifes of fruit and domestic items.... for a while at least.... their art was FORMAL and had rules and different artists went to different schools to learn tecniques and such.... i think if you can find a continuous supply of clothing examples in art, all being familiar in garment line and style, i think we can err on the side of reason...... if we have at least 23 artists renderings of short jackets with all kinds of different hemlines, back and front.....from 1690- 1740....... i find no problem with using ones mind and judgement to use and create from period collections of art....infact i think it is rather foolish to not do this.... if we only use extant garmnents, that leaves us with littel choice in anything regarding clothing....... just my opinionated opinion!! LOL lady constance and ooooops about the wrong title to the painting--- but CHECK OUT THE THREE DIFFERENT BACK STYLES Of GARMENTS!! now you have 3 different period correct backs! YAHOOOOO!
LadyBrower Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Lady, I don't think anyone was arguing your use of Art, I think it is a fantastic idea. But we are still having trouble with the matter of "Jumps" as in the informal type garment worn in lieu of stays. Or something to that effect. What we have in those paintings are some really great examples of outerwear... does that make sense? I would love to find more informal bedroom scenes like... Does that make sense? Sorry. :-/ (I've recently been told I'm not very tactful, and I don't mean not to be! It's very distressing!) Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Silkie McDonough Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) That last image...maybe it is an issue with being over weight but I could NEVER bend that far forward in stays! lol Now back to the Jumps discussion. Edited August 13, 2009 by Silkie McDonough
LadyBrower Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 hahaha! I think it's part artistic lisence, part the fact the are not tightened... But yea... I'm so tempted to make jumps based on the few waistcoat pictures available. I want to make them quilted but lace or tie in the front. I'm thinking that if I create waistcoat pattern on a form with my stays on it, it will have a similar shape, and then I can flare it out at the hips there.... get the idea? Just a though. Period or no I think it would look super cute with low rise jeans for fall with a cute peasant top and some nice knitted mitts.... Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
LadyBrower Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 OKay, back to being some-what smarty pants for the sake of twill conversations... I did find these: it's a little later, 1740-1780 Atwater Kent Museum... Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Salty Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 go for it lady, i too like the concept of using art, in as much as i can see it, recalling that the pieces in collections are most like to be upper class and well preserved articles, not perhaps the working class wear that so many of us try to portray. Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
LadyBrower Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 i too like the concept of using art, in as much as i can see it, recalling that the pieces in collections are most like to be upper class and well preserved articles, not perhaps the working class wear that so many of us try to portray. True... and that of the working classes tended so much to be romanticized that we have to be careful in using it for our purposes, though it should not be ignored, of course. Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Salty Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 no it should not be, just always something i try to keep in mind when doing any research, be it clothing, pottery, or anything else Mud Slinging Pyromanic , Errrrrr Ship's Potter at ye service Vagabond's Rogue Potter Wench First Mate of the Fairge Iolaire Me weapons o choice be lots o mud, sharp pointy sticks, an string
LadyBrower Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I absolutely agree. =) Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
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