Weathering gun

[MorganTyre]

Well now that the new and shiny (psychological) has warn off of my doglock blunderbuss it's time to start some modification work on it. First things first, I used some MEK to strip the finish off of the stock (bare stock, everything removed of course). I will say, the stock on these is VERY poorly done. There's considerable damage in a few places which have been quasi-repaired with wood glue. This includes a palm length crack at the end of the stock that with the barrel out and the finished removed I can see daylight through and a large area broken in the in-letting of the lock which was then patched back in to place. Considering what I bought this gun for and my own personal aesthetic it's no big deal but I do feel I have to say buyer beware. If I were not planning on doing what I am doing I would not be pleased at this point but considering that the repairs weren't obvious until I stripped everything down I doubt very much I have much recourse with the dealer at this point. Still, I have to say again that in my particular case I am not concerned because damage = character in my opinion.

Now that the wood is stripped and clean it's time for a new finish. I'm torn at this point between tung oil, boiled linseed oil, pine tar, or no finish and let the stock pick up whatever crap it happens to get. Pine tar is my typical coating of choice. It's very good looking, somewhat water repellent, and smells great. It's really a 50/50/50/50 choice at this point though (wow, 200%! Somehow I got an extra gun out of the deal) Any suggestions?

I'm also considering adding a mark at this point. I'm not thinking a personal mark so much as a merchant mark (NOT potc style EIC). Was this ever done to indicate ownership by a particular vessel? I know that typically guns were kept locked and only issued if there was trouble but were they the actual property of the ship? Would it be reasonable for one to carry a mark of any sort? Is there any evidence to support this idea? If marks were on stocks were they carved, stamped, or branded?

It's also time to do something about that bright and shiny metal. I am not looking for suggestions of just keep it oiled and use it and let it age on its own. I want to dull things down quite a bit. I've heard of mustard, naval jelly, boiling bleach, browning, and bluing. Of course I could also just plug the bore and leave it in the trunk of my car with my wet dive gear for a year. That did incredible things to my axe. I'm leaning towards the bleach for the barrel and naval jelly on the lock. There is some great how to info over on the muzzle-loaders forum but I am looking for some second opinions from people in my time period. Share your first hand experiences please.

[michaelsbagley]

Not sure about this... But I've heard (which means I can't back this up), but I've heard that intentional browning was a later period thing. I'd be interested in knowing if there is any truth or falsehood to this though.

I thought mustard was just another agent used for browning?

I'm kind of looking to take the glossy shine off my two new peices as well, I am leaning away from colouring (no browning or blueing), and would prefer just to take the almost chrome like shine down to a dull gray. I've heard fine grit steel wool will do this, but would like to hear if anyone else has had luck with that.

Good luck Morgan, love to see some pics once you finish!

[Cannibal Chrispy]

Although I am a flintlock owner and experienced shooter. I have modified, but never antiqued a gun. However, I have antiqued a few guitars (guitars911.com) and I find the two to be extremely similar in most mechanical respects. To remove the "shiny" finish off chrome, steel, nickel, brass or to remove gold plating entirely, I would suspend the clean part in a sealed container "a jar, plastic jug, 5 gal. bucket w/lid, depending on part size" with muriatic acid in the bottom "available at any swimming pool supply", just an inch in the bottom of container, NOT dipping said part into the acid! The fumes do all the work. in 5 to 10 minutes you should begin to see results. This process should be done outdoors and not be left unattended! It should not take more than 30 to 45 min. MAX!!! rinse with water, repeat if necessary, dry thoroughly, oil lightly, and carry on. This will leave you with a smooth, nicely weathered, dull grey look, without changing the shape of said part or the smoothness of the finish, where sanding or steel wool "albeit lightly" will. I did do this with a knife where I brushed on the acid and got the desired results, but where the acid pooled the finish was darker, for a more even finish I recommend suspension. It should also be noted that said part should have as little contact with whatever you use to suspend it as possible, for instance I usually use a bent coat hangar, if you tie string around it there will be a dark line where the string touches the part. If you don't get the look your lookin for, then break out the steel wool for that "brushed" look, but I would try this first.

This process is for individual "Single parts" NOT for mechanical assemblies DO NOT DO THIS TO THE WHOLE LOCK!

Edited April 8, 2009 by Cannibal Chrispy

[Guest]

I thought mustard was just another agent used for browning?

I haven't used mustard, but have read of other that have, it's used to dull the metal finish on guns... the mustard holds the acidic vinegar in place (Over night if I remember correctly).....and then is rinsed off.

Because I ground off the muzzle ring off my buss, I had to clean the barrel up anyway, and just finished it with steal wool, so it's not chrome shinny....

[MorganTyre]

I thought mustard was just another agent used for browning?

I haven't used mustard, but have read of other that have, it's used to dull the metal finish on guns... the mustard holds the acidic vinegar in place (Over night if I remember correctly).....and then is rinsed off.

Because I ground off the muzzle ring off my buss, I had to clean the barrel up anyway, and just finished it with steal wool, so it's not chrome shinny....

Did the steel wool give a brushed sort of look or an even dull gray? I can't tell from the pictures you've posted.

[gunner Gordon]

Oil and a fine steel wool will produce a nice brown patina on a rusted weapon with semi polished highlights that give a recently used look and not the "weekend pirate" look. Scotch brite pads for a bit more used metalic look, scotch bright soaked with brasso to clean brass or bronze with a utilitarian look. An interesting idea for markings is the rack or unit #s stamped in stocks, or ,on british arms the ship's name engraved on the barrel with the captain's name after it; HMS SURPRISE Capt Aubrey , a form of accountability for ship's stores. The east india company had a similar system. Hope this helps

[MorganTyre]

Thanks all for the reply's. I just finished stripping the stock and it looks SO much better now that that finish is all gone. For those who want to do it to their guns, MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) is THE tool for the job. At this point I'm leaning heavily towards leaving the wood unfinished and letting it pick up whatever dirts and oils it's exposed to but I'm still not 100% sure. Also, I do need to repair a crack in the stock. I have seen metal staples used to pull a crack closed on a much later gun. Would this be a period fix? How available would the materials have been? Any other suggestions?

[callenish gunner]

I usually use the scotch-brite pads on the metal parts and fine 0000 steel wool for the wood stocks ans then tack cloth and boiled linseed and black walnut husks for the stock and then lemon oil and furniture wax twice a year after that ...and a modest coating of gun oil on the steel bits at all times

[Guest]

I've said/typed this before.... I always view the India made guns as "kits in the white"....

Whatever it is that they paint the stocks with.... eergh.... but the good news is that you can scrape it off with a pocket knife.....(yeah it's painted on that thick...)

A little touch-up with some sand paper, and re-stain the stock, then boiled linseed oil and beeswax....

DISCLAIMER....

I'm not one of those people/Pyrates wot worrys too much about alla the safety stuff....So if something has worked for me, it may not work for you, and it may burn or explode if you try it... so yer on yer own.....

I got a small paint can (empty of course...) and dropped in a small chunk of beeswax.... lit up the propane torch and ...well zapped/fried it until it melted.... then I added some boiled linseed oil, stirred it, and let the whole mess cool.....about a 50-50 mixture....

I apply the mixture almost the same way I'd polish a pair of shoes.... just a little at a time... buff it and let it dry.... then do it again.....let it set for a few days... then do it again....(and after cleaning the buss...)

I develops a soft subtle "glow" that the varnish of whatever that gunk they paint the stock with just doesn't have....

[Cannibal Chrispy]

As for your crack, I would have repaired the crack before removing the original finish with a stripper, due to the fact that you now have misc. residue in the crack and open wood around it, so lets deal with that first, work several drops of stripper into crack , give it time to soften whatever residue is in it, add a little more stripper, and squeeze crack together, a vise or clamp can be used but dont get carried away. this should squeeze out most of the residue and form that which is remaining to the shape of the crack. Remove from vise/clamp and let the stripper evaporate. Once it is dry take warm water and drip a few drops into the crack work the crack closed a couple of times' you want the inside of the crack to be wet, not dripping but wetter than moist. Than using Tightbond II weatherproof wood glue, if the crack is more than 1 inch deep into the wood "not length of crack but depth" thin glue 50/50 with warm water and work into crack, then work unthinned glue into crack. If less than 1 in. deep work unthinned glue into crack and clamp shut. clamping the pistol stock is the hard part as sometimes the odd shape makes it tough to apply pressure where you want it, do not overtighten and squeeze all the glue out, tighten until crack closes, remove excess glue and let dry. You shouldn't need any dove tails or "heaven forbid" staples. On a footnote if you plan to stain it, do it after removing residue, but before the crack repair as the open wood around the crack will absorb the glue and take stain differently.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Cannibal Chrispy

[Cannibal Chrispy]

After re reading the discription of your crack you may want to wrap the barrel in wax paper, foil or painters blue tape and put it in place before clamping, so your barrel channel does not end up tighter than it should be and splitting the crack back open when you install the barrel. This may be what caused the crack in the first place, without seeing it, it is hard to say.

A photo would be most helpful in answering this question

Edited April 8, 2009 by Cannibal Chrispy

[MorganTyre]

As for your crack, I would have repaired the crack before removing the original finish with a stripper, due to the fact that you now have misc. residue in the crack and open wood around it, so lets deal with that first, work several drops of stripper into crack , give it time to soften whatever residue is in it, add a little more stripper, and squeeze crack together, a vise or clamp can be used but dont get carried away. this should squeeze out most of the residue and form that which is remaining to the shape of the crack. Remove from vise/clamp and let the stripper evaporate. Once it is dry take warm water and drip a few drops into the crack work the crack closed a couple of times' you want the inside of the crack to be wet, not dripping but wetter than moist. Than using Tightbond II weatherproof wood glue, if the crack is more than 1 inch deep into the wood "not length of crack but depth" thin glue 50/50 with warm water and work into crack, then work unthinned glue into crack. If less than 1 in. deep work unthinned glue into crack and clamp shut. clamping the pistol stock is the hard part as sometimes the odd shape makes it tough to apply pressure where you want it, do not overtighten and squeeze all the glue out, tighten until crack closes, remove excess glue and let dry. You shouldn't need any dove tails or "heaven forbid" staples. On a footnote if you plan to stain it, do it after removing residue, but before the crack repair as the open wood around the crack will absorb the glue and take stain differently.

The crack wasn't visible with the original finish on, nor was another heavily repaired area. I wasn't so much worried about doing a professional looking glue joint. To the contrary, I don't mind emphasizing the damage. The staples (hammer in, not to be confused with modern staples) I've seen as an actual fix on a rev war era gun and it look good in a field-repair sort of way so that's where that idea came from. I'm certainly not comitted to it though. Great repair info though. Thank you very much.

[Cannibal Chrispy]

You are quite welcome! Looks are unimportant. You can make it look older and add staples after the repair, I just don't want a damaged weapon being fired! Especially if it runs in a circle where it my end up being fired next to me or someone I care about! As a certified black powder safety inspector through the Florida state parks service, I have to tell you that if I inspect a gun with an improperly repaired or unrepaired crack in its stock. It aint shootin at that event. Best Wishes on your endeavor. And remember "If you can't find the time to do it right, where will you find the time to do it over?"

[MorganTyre]

You are quite welcome! Looks are unimportant. You can make it look older and add staples after the repair, I just don't want a damaged weapon being fired! Especially if it runs in a circle where it my end up being fired next to me or someone I care about! As a certified black powder safety inspector through the Florida state parks service, I have to tell you that if I inspect a gun with an improperly repaired or unrepaired crack in its stock. It aint shootin at that event. Best Wishes on your endeavor. And remember "If you can't find the time to do it right, where will you find the time to do it over?"

That is a very very good point. I'll be sure to do it well. That said, considering there are two unrelated areas of damage to the stock on a new gun, both completely concealed by the finish I can't help but assume that sort of shoddy work is par for the course on an indian gun.

[Joe Pyrat]

There is a shop here in Saint Augustine which has several old blunderbuss for sail. They have some carving on the stocks and for the most part have very dark stocks. If you are interested I can get some pictures for you.

My blunderbuss, residing on a boat (high humidity environment), is beginning to pickup some surface rust on the shiny (bare) mettle parts. My experience with older weapons does not include ones much older than the American Civil War which appeared to have a surface rust patina but may have been originally browned although browning by a modern black powder gunsmith is much more even.

Morgan, since you are a weapons inspector, would allowing a a weapon to brown naturally then oiling it necessarily exclude a weapon from an event?

[Cannibal Chrispy]

If there are blunderbuss's in St. Augustine and you are curious about them you should send a message to Willie Wobble here on the pub as they probably came from him or someone on his crew.

[MorganTyre]

Morgan, since you are a weapons inspector, would allowing a a weapon to brown naturally then oiling it necessarily exclude a weapon from an event?

Cannibal is the weapon's guy (unless his real name is Morgan). Thanks for the heads up on the carving. Yes I would certainly like to see pictures if any are available. I've been trying to decide whether to carve a mark or brand one. I don't really have a way to stamp it and have it turn out as I would want it. For the finish I'm back to thinking about pinetar. I really like the finish that gives and it's certainly salty-enough. The technique I use has been used for centuries aboard ships to preserve and protect line and wood so it's firmly in the "historical possibility but no direct evidence for so assume it wasn't used" category. It's certainly no more anachronistic than the wood of the stock itself (sort of looks like teak but is too light to be teak). Beeswax ala Patrick's suggestion was one of my initial thoughts but I live in a very hot climate and am afraid the wax will cook out. Unfortunately, I've had that experience before on a different project.

On a different note, I decided to do some work on the metal. I tried the naval jelly technique and have to say that I'm very pleased with the result. The look is similar to silver that is just beginning to tarnish. The bright mirror like shine is gone though that's not to say that the metal isn't still shiny. It's also darkened considerably but not where I would call it actually dark. The finish is also uneven much like tarnish silver. All in all a very nice look and a huge improvement over the original. I will try to post pictures this evening. If anyone wants to try, here's the technique:

Step 1: Completely wash and degrease the part to be finished. Wear gloves so the oils of your hands don't get on the metal.

Step 2: Using a brush (I used the sponge type) apply the naval jelly liberally over the metal. Keep applying more and more, working over the same areas. Keep this up for five minutes.

Step 3: Completely was the naval jelly off using hot soapy water. Wash it until you think it's clean and then wash it some more.

Step 4: Dry the part and then oil as usual.

Doing all parts cost me a total of $5 and took well under an hour and required no special tools or dangerous set-ups. The finish is what I would describe as light but I'm happy with it.

[michaelsbagley]

On a different note, I decided to do some work on the metal. I tried the naval jelly technique and have to say that I'm very pleased with the result. The look is similar to silver that is just beginning to tarnish. The bright mirror like shine is gone though that's not to say that the metal isn't still shiny. It's also darkened considerably but not where I would call it actually dark. The finish is also uneven much like tarnish silver. All in all a very nice look and a huge improvement over the original. I will try to post pictures this evening. If anyone wants to try, here's the technique:

Step 1: Completely wash and degrease the part to be finished. Wear gloves so the oils of your hands don't get on the metal.

Step 2: Using a brush (I used the sponge type) apply the naval jelly liberally over the metal. Keep applying more and more, working over the same areas. Keep this up for five minutes.

Step 3: Completely was the naval jelly off using hot soapy water. Wash it until you think it's clean and then wash it some more.

Step 4: Dry the part and then oil as usual.

Doing all parts cost me a total of $5 and took well under an hour and required no special tools or dangerous set-ups. The finish is what I would describe as light but I'm happy with it.

Hey MorganTyre, would you be willing to post some pics of the work (either in progress or when you finish). I like the description you have posted, but I would want to see it before giving it a go myself.

Thanks a ton for sharing your experience in doing this, it makes it seem less daunting for someone who has been pondering undertaking the same task!

[MorganTyre]

On a different note, I decided to do some work on the metal. I tried the naval jelly technique and have to say that I'm very pleased with the result. The look is similar to silver that is just beginning to tarnish. The bright mirror like shine is gone though that's not to say that the metal isn't still shiny. It's also darkened considerably but not where I would call it actually dark. The finish is also uneven much like tarnish silver. All in all a very nice look and a huge improvement over the original. I will try to post pictures this evening. If anyone wants to try, here's the technique:

Step 1: Completely wash and degrease the part to be finished. Wear gloves so the oils of your hands don't get on the metal.

Step 2: Using a brush (I used the sponge type) apply the naval jelly liberally over the metal. Keep applying more and more, working over the same areas. Keep this up for five minutes.

Step 3: Completely was the naval jelly off using hot soapy water. Wash it until you think it's clean and then wash it some more.

Step 4: Dry the part and then oil as usual.

Doing all parts cost me a total of $5 and took well under an hour and required no special tools or dangerous set-ups. The finish is what I would describe as light but I'm happy with it.

Hey MorganTyre, would you be willing to post some pics of the work (either in progress or when you finish). I like the description you have posted, but I would want to see it before giving it a go myself.

Thanks a ton for sharing your experience in doing this, it makes it seem less daunting for someone who has been pondering undertaking the same task!

Will do. I'll try to get pictures up this evening. The reason I went with the naval jelly is because I knew if I didn't like the result I could take it to the buffing wheel and work the metal back to where it was so it is reversible. I definitely understand daunting. I couldn't bring myself to do it straight out of the box though I got it knowing that ultimately I would modify it.

[MorganTyre]

These pictures don't really do the metal finish much justice. The flash was just reflecting the fresh oil making it look much shinier than it actually is. These should give some idea though. The camera was giving me hell. Definitely time for a new one. Note, nothing is mounted here just placed into spot.

[Cannibal Chrispy]

Looks great! Sorry if I sounded overly cautious and made a simple, cheap, effective solution sound like a "dangerous set up". I live 2 houses down from an elementary school so there are always curious little eyes and hands around. As for me being the "Weapons Guy" standing here that's a laugh! ! am soo "not worthy" of the knowledge beheld by some of the guys here. They know Faaaaar more than I will ever look for. I just wanted to offer my 20 yrs. experience in guitar repair "wood, metalwork" and a little saftey.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Cannibal Chrispy

[MorganTyre]

Looks great! Sorry if I sounded overly cautious and made a simple, cheap, effective solution sound like a "dangerous set up". I live 2 houses down from an elementary school so there are always curious little eyes and hands around. As for me being the "Weapons Guy" standing here that's a laugh! ! am soo "not worthy" of the knowledge beheld by some of the guys here. They know Faaaaar more than I will ever look for. I just wanted to offer my 20 yrs. experience in guitar repair "wood, metalwork" and a little saftey.

No, the dangerous set-up I was talking about was dealing with the boiling bleach. Sorry for the miscommunication. I have dealt with muratic acid before and you're right, your suggestion is cheap, quick, and effective and a great idea.

[MorganTyre]

Well, the refinish is complete and I couldn't be happier. In the end what I accomplished is really what I think the product guns should look like out of the box rather than the heavily weathered gun I'd originally envisioned but this was more a product of me changing my mind as I progressed rather than any fault in the process. All of the metal has a nice tarnished gunmetal gray look to it though it still has a bit of gleam. The wood has a much more natural look to it. It's darker than the original finish though not stained dark (it doesn't look like walnut) and it's more of a matte/semi-gloss which is a huge improvement over the original high-gloss "varnish". I did brand it with a merchant mark which is very similar to Mary Diamond's avatar and that turned out well. To be honest, that was the only non-reversible modification I made to the whole thing. I've decided not to incorporate a permanent sling since I've really intended this to be set-up as a ship-board weapon to be used as the need arose rather than something I'd have strapped to me at all times. If for some reason I felt I needed to go ashore armed I could rig a temporary sling. All in all, I am very pleased. I will post pictures as soon as I can get my camera to cooperate.