powder recommendations

[silas thatcher]

going to buy some black powder for the demo shooting at the santa maria event, may9 and 10...

got some advice from someone but he recommended getting others' advice also...

so here it is.... what brands are favored for pistols, muskets... and what grade do people recommend ??

[Quartermaster James]

Black Powder only, accept no substitutes!

I use Goex, mainly because it's easily available; would not be averse to trying Swiss or other brands were they to be had readily.

I use 3f in the pistol and 2f in the musket; 4f for priming.

Be sure to use a load appropriate for your gun.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Quartermaster James

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Goex is all I use. 3f works in muskets too, and often you don't need to prime as the 3f will spill through the vent and prime from the inside. Less to carry too. Also, invest in a .50 cal. ammo can to keep it stored in. safe, waterprooof, and spark resisitant. Holds four or five one-pound cans.

Bo

[Cascabel]

Goex is all I use. 3f works in muskets too, and often you don't need to prime as the 3f will spill through the vent and prime from the inside. Less to carry too. Also, invest in a .50 cal. ammo can to keep it stored in. safe, waterprooof, and spark resisitant. Holds four or five one-pound cans.

Bo

Quite true !!! A lot of the "generally accepted wisdom" about black powder shooting is geared toward the firing of live loads with ball, and competition shooting, rather than firing blank loads.

I use 3f in ALL calibers for blank loads, except for cannons. Works just fine, and is fairly clean burning. In the larger calibers, (above .50), tests have shown 3f generates higher pressures than coarser powders when using ball, but for our purposes with blank loads, it's not an issue.

For priming, use of 4f is entirely unnecessary. 3f works just fine, so you only need to carry one grade of powder. For competition shooting, where milliseconds in ignition time count, 4f is a good idea. It has a marginally faster burn time than 3f, and ignites slightly easier. For shooting blanks, it won't hurt anything to use it, but it's really not needed.

>>>> Cascabel

[Quartermaster James]

What sort of loads do you use when shooting blanks?

Same as had you loaded ball? More? Less?

For shooting round ball, I've been considering working up a 3f load for the musket, just to see if there's any noticeable difference in ignition and/or accuracy from the 2f load.

I've primed the musket with 3f, but find the 4f noticeably faster. With the pistol, I usually just use the 3f in the barrel and the pan for the aforementioned convenience.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Quartermaster James

[Cascabel]

What sort of loads do you use when shooting blanks?

Same as had you loaded ball? More? Less?

For shooting round ball, I've been considering working up a 3f load for the musket, just to see if there's any noticeable difference in ignition and/or accuracy from the 2f load.

I've primed the musket with 3f, but find the 4f noticeably faster. With the pistol, I usually just use the 3f in the barrel and the pan for the aforementioned convenience.

I use considerably less powder for a live load than I do for blanks. Without a ball to cause a buildup of pressure, a blank load can sound rather weak, so more powder is necessary. For blank loads, the correct amount is a function of both bore diameter and barrel length. As a starting point, I usually reccommend one grain per caliber, for instance, .50 caliber=50 grains. (For those reading this that are unfamiliar with black powder weapons, a "grain" is a unit of weight, which is usually measured out as a unit of volume in powder measures, rather than weighed with a scale.)

From this starting point, the load can be increased gradually until it "sounds right", which is purely a judgement call on the part of the shooter. You need to stop short of a noise loud enough to cause ringing of people's ears, which will make you very un-welcome in most venues, and is wasteful of powder. I also am a very outspoken advocate of NOT using wadding of any kind, for various reasons.

>>>>> Cascabel

[callenish gunner]

I argee with Bo, I have used Goex for years. Using more than 80 grains in a pistol is usually just wasting powder for blanks and most long guns I recommend 100-120 and most blunderbuss I have used 150 of 3f and I use a small primer charger with 4f ...all these are for blank loads; for waded and ball loads i use approx. one grain per cal.

[Quartermaster James]

Using more than 80 grains in a pistol is usually just wasting powder for blanks

Whoa Nelly! 80 grains in a pistol! What sort of barrels are you packing?

What do you do without wadding? Do you pack the powder or just pour it in?

Do you have to keep your weapon vertical and shoot into the sky?

If not, doesn't the powder lay out along the barrel? Hmmm...maybe I'll have to try this now.

On another note, I've heard using steel wool for wadding makes quite a sight when shooting at night!*

*DISCLAIMER: I assume this is done over water, or another fire safe environment. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

Edited March 17, 2009 by Quartermaster James

[Cascabel]

Using more than 80 grains in a pistol is usually just wasting powder for blanks

Whoa Nelly! 80 grains in a pistol! What sort of barrels are you packing?

What do you do without wadding? Do you pack the powder or just pour it in?

Do you have to keep your weapon vertical and shoot into the sky?

If not, doesn't the powder lay out along the barrel? Hmmm...maybe I'll have to try this now.

On another note, I've heard using steel wool for wadding makes quite a sight when shooting at night!*

*DISCLAIMER: I assume this is done over water, or another fire safe environment. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

For firing without a wad, you simply pour the powder down the barrel. It is entirely un-necessary to "pack" it. You simply remember not to point it below the horizontal, and the powder remains nicely back against the breech. (unless, of course if you quickly "flick" it down to the horizontal position, and I don't know why you would do that ! ) You don't need to point it up into the sky, just don't point it below horizontal.

Fine steel wool fired at night is fun, but use CAUTION !! It burns brightly, and can ignite whatever it falls on or into. Do it over water only !! If any remains in the bore, it is certain to ignite the next powder charge to be poured in, so give PLENTY of time between shots. Be ABSOLUTELY certain it is all the way down on top of the powder, or you risk a burst barrel, just like with a ball not properly rammed. This is NOT for amateurs, and is not to be taken lightly !!!

>>>> Cascabel

[callenish gunner]

Amen Cascabel !!!

[LadyBarbossa]

What are some other recommended brands of gunpowder? Whether shipped or bought via local gunsmithy. And what's the general price I am looking at? Not just per pound, but per container?

BTW, safety regulations and drilling in the NWTA does NOT allow packing with a ramrod on the field or elsewhere unless at Colours for Inspection. Ramrod stuck? Ye can't use that weapon until it passes inspection.

~Lady B

[Red-Handed Jill]

From what I've observed, Goex is used most commonly. And each container IS one pound. We've bought it by the case at $12/pound (but we have cannons...) and I've seen it for sale at rendezvous for $17-$19 per container, on the average.

[silas thatcher]

goex is pretty much unavailable here in st. louis... everyone is sold out of it and not much hope in getting any of it soon...

i have seen prices of 13$ around town, and at columbus, i noticed the 24$ price tag !! ouch !!

[LadyBarbossa]

I'm having that issue, too, Silas. Not checked on Goex yet... but Lee's Legion in the NWTA uses Elefant (? - I know I spelt that wrong), I heard of other brands, too. But the brand I see around here constantly is Pyrex. Which I hear is bad to use.

Will check about for Goex. That's one I never heard of.

~Lady B

[Red-Handed Jill]

goex is pretty much unavailable here in st. louis... everyone is sold out of it and not much hope in getting any of it soon...

i have seen prices of 13$ around town, and at columbus, i noticed the 24$ price tag !! ouch !!

This is one reason why we buy it by the case... Track of the Wolf was offering it for a limited time at the $12 price if you bought a case of 25. The price has since gone up to just over $14. Get a bunch of folks together on a case and it can be a pretty good deal.

And here's a listing of Goex distributors.

[Commodore Swab]

*DISCLAIMER: I assume this is done over water, or another fire safe environment. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

What if your home is surrounded by water?

Living on a boat on the ocean does make taking care of guns a PITA. I have a small case that holds 5 charges for my cannon, will store a flask with various measures. It was built around the size of 3 Goex cans and fits 1F, 2F, and 3F or any combination. It also has enough room for some other odds and ends.

As far as powder recomendations go I further say Goex, and will add stay away from Pyrodex.

[Cascabel]

I'm having that issue, too, Silas. Not checked on Goex yet... but Lee's Legion in the NWTA uses Elefant (? - I know I spelt that wrong), I heard of other brands, too. But the brand I see around here constantly is Pyrex. Which I hear is bad to use.

~Lady B

It is spelled Pyrodex. It is absolutely NOT black powder !!! Pyrodex is a black powder substitute, and performs very poorly in flintlocks, if you can get it to ignite at all. It can be made to work (sort of) by using a small "booster" load of real black powder to get it going. Very much more trouble than it's worth. Real black powder is also considerably cheaper !!!

Pyrodex can be satisfactorily used in percussion cap weapons, however. The reason that you see Pyrodex commonly, is that it comes under an entirely different set of regulations regarding transportation, storage, and sales. It is classed as a "flammable solid", same as modern smokeless powder, and requires no special license for a store to stock it.

Real black powder is classified as an explosive, and the regulations are much more trouble for a dealer to comply with, and that is why you don't see it everywhere. Before the advent of nitrate type explosives such as dynamite, black powder was the only choice available, including for blasting in mining operations.

There are a few other black powder substitutes available, such as Shure Shot, Clean Shot, and maybe a few more, but none of them are REAL black powder, and none will work well in a flintlock.

There are not many brands of real black powder available. The most popular are GOEX, and Elephant. It really makes no difference for our purposes of blank firing which brand you choose, as long as it is REAL black powder. The formula and manufacturing process is essentially the same.

>>>> Cascabel

[LadyBarbossa]

Gotcha. Thanks, Cascabel. :)

BTW, fabulous page of ye on Pirates Magazine.

~Lady B

[Captain_MacNamara]

We use Pyrodex in our cannon and flintlocks, but only because real black powder just is NOT available here. I'd have to drive out of state to get it. I would HAPPILY use Goex if it were available locally.

Now... the thing about Pyrodex is that it does have to have wadding, otherwise it just goes "foosh". I use a small amount of bread as wadding. Biodegradable, doesn't catch fire, and packs nicely. I've never had much of a problem with it not igniting in my 'lock, but I usually get a good shower of sparks as well.

[blackjohn]

I've used both Elephant and Goex. They seem to function equally well. Goex is the readily available choice around here. At $20+ a can, I had been thinking about buying it by the case.

How many cans in a case? You have to have a proper storage safe if you keep... 24 pounds?

[theM.A.dDogge]

I've used both Elephant and Goex. They seem to function equally well. Goex is the readily available choice around here. At $20+ a can, I had been thinking about buying it by the case.

How many cans in a case? You have to have a proper storage safe if you keep... 24 pounds?

when i last got stopped by a state trooper on the way to an event....had something to do with the human sized dufflebag...with a long wig hanging outta it...a gun box....and a shovel....hehe .....

was told couldn't travel (in a car) with more than 7pounds of black powder...(only in michigan??)....i am not sure what the amount is for private home storage is tho??

[callenish gunner]

Case lots are 25 lbs. and if you're going to do that it is best to go to someplace like Track o' the Wolf (right now they are under $15 per lb. in case lots mix or match grain size). Home storage would include up to two case lots (50 lbs.) in a locked spark proof container; without having a separate powder magazine on your property at least 200 ft. from habitable structures.

[silas thatcher]

ordering a case seems to be the way to go... just a little apprehensive about keeping that much in the house...

i also wonder about black powder voiding home insurance policies... like an oxy-acetalene setup does...they consider that an explosive :)

[Cascabel]

Local laws vary considerably about black powder (and many other things). Keep in mind that sometimes asking the authorities can open quite a can of worms, and possibly put you in the "spotlight".

.......... Properly warned, sez I.

>>>> Cascabel

[michaelsbagley]

goex is pretty much unavailable here in st. louis... everyone is sold out of it and not much hope in getting any of it soon...

i have seen prices of 13$ around town, and at columbus, i noticed the 24$ price tag !! ouch !!

You found Goex in Columbus? Where?

The week before the event I searched all over for it, my normal source (who sells it for about $22/pound) was all out, so I had to drive an hour and some north of the city to find it... Where I did find it had it for $16/pound, but the drive...