Jib Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 How about the stilleto? I have seen a few that are marked with measurements to check the depth of gunpowder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Really! That's the first time I've heard of Honour Bright's shoes being used for such. OH! You meant... never mind! Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 There are some Gunners daggers/stilettos with lines on them to measure small calibre bores that I've seen/handled. Also there are some made in such a way to be used to 'spike the gun'... essentially stick the blade into the touch hole tightly and snap it off, this rendering the gun useless. This would be done before retreating and abandoning the gun. Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Oh....you mean....it's not about shoes? Dang! LOL I have a lovely hand made one, patterned almost exactly after an Italian Misericord(?) Very lovely, and fits nicely into a bodice sheath, if I were so inclined. I purchased it from a sword maker while I was in the SCA. It's one of my favorite knives in my limited collection. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Oh....you mean....it's not about shoes? Dang! LOLI have a lovely hand made one, patterned almost exactly after an Italian Misericord(?) Very lovely, and fits nicely into a bodice sheath, if I were so inclined. I purchased it from a sword maker while I was in the SCA. It's one of my favorite knives in my limited collection. I think the shoes may have been named after the blade. Rather like Ajax as a Greek hero before a cleaning product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNell Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Oh....you mean....it's not about shoes? Dang! LOLI have a lovely hand made one, patterned almost exactly after an Italian Misericord(?) Very lovely, and fits nicely into a bodice sheath, if I were so inclined. I purchased it from a sword maker while I was in the SCA. It's one of my favorite knives in my limited collection. LOL I thought it was about shoes too! “PIRACY, n. Commerce without its folly-swaddles, just as God made it.” Ambrose Bierce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) Ransom - Oh....you mean....it's not about shoes? Dang! LOL RustyNell - LOL I thought it was about shoes too! Well...I guess I wasn't the only one thinking Manolo Blahnik, was I? Edited March 11, 2009 by Cheeky Actress Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Gosh,maybe we should start another thread....Stilletos, YES we mean shoes! (Yeah, and we know who has a few of those Manolo's, don't we, Cheeky? ) ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 What?! Me? Only two...ONLY two...can't afford more than that right now... As for Stlletos...I have one that I've used several years back when I worked at Sterling Ren Faire (Oswego, NY). It I can find a photo of it, I'll post it. It was a wonderful knife! I use to hide it in my corset where my busc would usually be. But then I was told not to do this any longer by the Stage Manager. It was considered a concealed weapon. Damn NY! Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stMate Matt Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I always understood the notches on the blades to have been used as elevation marks while aiming the cannon. I think they were often stock in the touch holes or somewhere and used as a site. Never heard of using them to measure powder but I wouldnt rule that out. -1st Mate of Pirates Magazine -Bladesmith/Owner of That Works Studio http://youtube.com/thatworks thatworks.shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Anyone have an image of a stilleto with or without the line? I'm curious to see it. And Gunners used these? ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh....you mean....it's not about shoes? Dang! LOLI have a lovely hand made one, patterned almost exactly after an Italian Misericord(?) Very lovely, and fits nicely into a bodice sheath, if I were so inclined. I purchased it from a sword maker while I was in the SCA. It's one of my favorite knives in my limited collection. Wouldn't a bodice dagger be a "bodkin"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Anyone have an image of a stilleto with or without the line? I'm curious to see it. And Gunners used these? ~Lady B I found this on ebay a while back and finally got the drive plugged back in that I saved it on: Very Rare Italian Bombardiers Stiletto / Dagger Circa 1650 Gunners Scale Complete This is a very scarce piece. It is an Italian Bombardiers or Gunners Stiletto. The Stiletto was a dual purpose piece – a dagger as a weapon, and the blade had a numbered scale which the gunner used to determine the correct size cannonball to use for that cannon. It is circa 1650. It is in fine antique condition. The hilt is iron mounted with very minor age wear, some nicks and marks, this piece was used. The grip is spirally carved dark brown wood or horn. There are nine bone inlays and more brass inlaid tacks. It has been varnished a long time ago. This was a museum practice in the late 1800's. The blade is straight of triangular section as was the style of the time. It is definitely hand-forged and in great condition with a medium gray patina. The reverse panel has the gunners scale numbered from 1 to 120. Please see photos. I have seen one other of these years ago that the scale was almost worn off. This piece the scale is in excellent condition. The tip is perfect and needle sharp. No scabbard, being of leather it is truly long gone. The overall length is 16 ¼" with an 11 ¾" blade. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 That is a beaut! I recall Museum Replicas sold a copy that was similar in design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Anyone have an image of a stilleto with or without the line? I'm curious to see it. And Gunners used these? ~Lady B I found this on ebay a while back and finally got the drive plugged back in that I saved it on: Very Rare Italian Bombardiers Stiletto / Dagger Circa 1650 Gunners Scale Complete This is a very scarce piece. It is an Italian Bombardiers or Gunners Stiletto. The Stiletto was a dual purpose piece – a dagger as a weapon, and the blade had a numbered scale which the gunner used to determine the correct size cannonball to use for that cannon. It is circa 1650. It is in fine antique condition. The hilt is iron mounted with very minor age wear, some nicks and marks, this piece was used. The grip is spirally carved dark brown wood or horn. There are nine bone inlays and more brass inlaid tacks. It has been varnished a long time ago. This was a museum practice in the late 1800's. The blade is straight of triangular section as was the style of the time. It is definitely hand-forged and in great condition with a medium gray patina. The reverse panel has the gunners scale numbered from 1 to 120. Please see photos. I have seen one other of these years ago that the scale was almost worn off. This piece the scale is in excellent condition. The tip is perfect and needle sharp. No scabbard, being of leather it is truly long gone. The overall length is 16 ¼" with an 11 ¾" blade. It's very nice but it couldn't have been used to measure cannon balls. The markings are inconsistent. My guess is that it for is measuring the bore of smaller guns. It you look at the width of the blade, it looks like a good match with the markings. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 wouldnt the marking have been inconsistent if it was on the weight of the cannon ball? The heavier the cannon ball, the smaller the gap would be i would have thought? Are you suggesting they put the blade of the dagger down the barrel of the gun? The stilletto I have is quite thin and would rattle about in the barrels of the mid 17th century guns i have seen. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 wouldnt the marking have been inconsistent if it was on the weight of the cannon ball? The heavier the cannon ball, the smaller the gap would be i would have thought? Are you suggesting they put the blade of the dagger down the barrel of the gun? The stilletto I have is quite thin and would rattle about in the barrels of the mid 17th century guns i have seen. I'm suggesting that they put it down the barrel of a musket. It looks like a hand-made version of a musket gage where the markings reflect the width of the blade instead of the length. I don't see how you could use it for weight. If you had a ring that was larger than any of your cannon balls then you could place it over the ball that you are measuring and use the blade to measure the gap. I found a comment on-line saying this: Italian Stiletto dagger, mid to late 17 C. Known as Gunners Stiletto and used to measure the amount of gun powder to be loaded on a cannon by sticking it at the top of the gunpowder pile and measuring its depth. The 10 inches blade is scaled with numbers. The grip is wood with spiral ribs set with round bone insert, steel cross guard and steel pommel. Total length 15 inches. Again, I would expect the markings to be more regular for this. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I found this on ebay a while back and finally got the drive plugged back in that I saved it on: This piece is certainly making the rounds! Italian Gunner's Stiletto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 wouldnt the marking have been inconsistent if it was on the weight of the cannon ball? The heavier the cannon ball, the smaller the gap would be i would have thought? Are you suggesting they put the blade of the dagger down the barrel of the gun? The stilletto I have is quite thin and would rattle about in the barrels of the mid 17th century guns i have seen. I'm suggesting that they put it down the barrel of a musket. It looks like a hand-made version of a musket gage where the markings reflect the width of the blade instead of the length. I don't see how you could use it for weight. If you had a ring that was larger than any of your cannon balls then you could place it over the ball that you are measuring and use the blade to measure the gap. I found a comment on-line saying this: Italian Stiletto dagger, mid to late 17 C. Known as Gunners Stiletto and used to measure the amount of gun powder to be loaded on a cannon by sticking it at the top of the gunpowder pile and measuring its depth. The 10 inches blade is scaled with numbers. The grip is wood with spiral ribs set with round bone insert, steel cross guard and steel pommel. Total length 15 inches. Again, I would expect the markings to be more regular for this. Mark would the blade not be to thin to be a musket guage though? the thickest part of the blade on my replica one is only about 12mm. I took the markings to be the weights of the cannon balls in pounds (lbs). So the dagger was placed next to the cannon ball and the height of the cannon ball specified its weight marked on the dagger. It could also be used to measure the bore size of the cannon by holding it across the end of the barrel thus showing you what weight/size cannon ball to use. Although that is just my interpretation. When they say gunpowder pile is this a technical term or just a pile of gunpowder? If so wouldnt the amount of gunpowder differ if the pile was wider (you could have a tall pile of gunpowder or the same amount of gunpowder just spread out more that would give a different reading on the dagger). ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) It could also be used to measure the bore size of the cannon by holding it across the end of the barrel thus showing you what weight/size cannon ball to use. Although that is just my interpretation. ECW Artillery And also: Daggers and Fighting Knives Edited October 14, 2009 by Quartermaster James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 you know i have that book too and havent got round to reading it yet. Looks like i was on the right tracks after all. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 The thing about a stilleto is that the blade just looks so bloody nasty! Stab wounds, especially deep stabs, are most often fatal. You can just see someone getting jabbed under an arm with one of these slender blades and sleeping with the worms after bleeding out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I think i remember reading they were created originally to stab through chainmail in the gaps between the plates on suits of armour. ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maddox Roberts Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 The stiletto was very popular in Italy and Sicily for assassinations from the Renaissance clear up through the 19th century. Men often wore light mail shirts beneath their civilian clothes and a stiletto would go through one if the assassin was dextrous. The idea was to approach your mark in a crowd, thrust the stiletto into his body somewhere and just keep walking, leaving the stiletto in him. The motion was so quick and subtle that people wouldn't notice, often not even the victim until it was too late.In the days before antibiotic drugs, he would usually die within a few days from infection even if no vital organ was pierced. Incidentally, Museum Replicas still sells an all-steel stiletto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoD Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Here's a couple more examples of Stiletto Daggers I just found in an Italian Museum Circa 1650-1700 ...and then I discovered the wine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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