Jib Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 What is the history of the Mortuary Sword? I know that it was used in the English Civil War and was a favorite of the Roundheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk the QM Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The mortuary sword, which fell out of use around 1670, has very close ties to the English Basket-hilt and is sometimes referred to as the English half-basket. This type was mainly a cavalry-issued weapon of both Royalist and Parliamentarian forces. In fact, it may be looked at as the great grandfather of 18th and 19th century cavalry sabers. Surviving examples are found both with broadsword blades and with single edged blades with part of the back edged sharpened to aid in thrusting. One of the best originals of this type of sword is one believed to have been owned by Oliver Cromwell—General of the Parliamentarian forces—and which now resides in the Royal Armouries, London. From http://www.myarmoury.com/review_ac_mort.html I'm not much help otherwise lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The pommel of the sword was often carved into the likeness of a head. Frequently, this was taken as a memorial to His Martyred Majesty, Charles Stuart. This, however seems to be yet another piece of Victorian re-written history. The name does not seem to appear until the 19th century, and the swords certainly predate His Majesty's death in 1649. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 In addition, Paul Chen makes a great one for backsword practice and stage work. I own one of his; its light even with an intimidating blade....fast and comes to hand really well. Maestro Paul MacDonald has allowed them in his backsword classes and they can take a hell of a beating...though I don't reccommend it. Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The pommel of the sword was often carved into the likeness of a head. Frequently, this was taken as a memorial to His Martyred Majesty, Charles Stuart. This, however seems to be yet another piece of Victorian re-written history. The name does not seem to appear until the 19th century, and the swords certainly predate His Majesty's death in 1649.Hawkyns Never seen a Mort sword (even in the musuems) with the head on the pommel...I always understood it to be the face engraved in the hilt itself, which as you say was supposed to represent Charles I....never really looked like him, though... Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Here be pictures of mine... a good, sturdy blade to be sure. And folks are always right taken with it. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Here be pictures of mine... a good, sturdy blade to be sure.And folks are always right taken with it. That's a Chen isn't it? Don't see the face on the guard though.... Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Nope... no face on the pommel. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 I think that might be the blade for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The Paul Chen is pretty, but in my estimation, its a bit light. It only weighs 2 pounds, whereas when I look through catalogues like the Wallace Collection, I find original weights for similar sword coming in at around 2lbs12oz, 2lbs8oz, and similar. Likewise, when I look at later variants of the cavalry sword, like the 1796 British Heavy Cavalry Sword (Sharpe's sword) being in the 3 pound range. 17th century basket hilts like the Irish hilt weigh as much as 4lbs2oz. Schiavonas weigh in at anywhere from 2lbs3oz up to 3lbs5oz. I'm much happier with my Armour Class mortuary which weighs in at a solid 3lbs. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stMate Matt Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The Paul Chen is pretty, but in my estimation, its a bit light. It only weighs 2 pounds, whereas when I look through catalogues like the Wallace Collection, I find original weights for similar sword coming in at around 2lbs12oz, 2lbs8oz, and similar. Likewise, when I look at later variants of the cavalry sword, like the 1796 British Heavy Cavalry Sword (Sharpe's sword) being in the 3 pound range. 17th century basket hilts like the Irish hilt weigh as much as 4lbs2oz. Schiavonas weigh in at anywhere from 2lbs3oz up to 3lbs5oz. I'm much happier with my Armour Class mortuary which weighs in at a solid 3lbs.Hawkyns As you shoudl be. Armour Class' version is right on the money. I have been a fan of their work for some time now. -1st Mate of Pirates Magazine -Bladesmith/Owner of That Works Studio http://youtube.com/thatworks thatworks.shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Paul Chen is pretty, but in my estimation, its a bit light. It only weighs 2 pounds, whereas when I look through catalogues like the Wallace Collection, I find original weights for similar sword coming in at around 2lbs12oz, 2lbs8oz, and similar. Likewise, when I look at later variants of the cavalry sword, like the 1796 British Heavy Cavalry Sword (Sharpe's sword) being in the 3 pound range. 17th century basket hilts like the Irish hilt weigh as much as 4lbs2oz. Schiavonas weigh in at anywhere from 2lbs3oz up to 3lbs5oz. I'm much happier with my Armour Class mortuary which weighs in at a solid 3lbs.Hawkyns The blades vary, actually to a small degree, and frankly I prefer one that caters to the lighter side and is still accurate. I don't really see where 8-12 ounces makes any difference. In Trained hands it shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, 3 lbs or a bit more may come to hand for some. Keep in mind the "cavalry" sword is not a mort sword, and the weights you list are all within an acceptable range. Periosd specs varied according to the blade maker as well and the maker of all the furniture. The swords were rarely ever made entirely by one manufacturer. I would say , IMO that if you like the thing, and it conforms to decent specs (NO mort sword should weight in at 4lbs!) and holds up under the use you intend..buy it. Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stMate Matt Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yesterday after reading this I checked my copy of Swords and Blades of the American Revolution. They have 3 Mortuary Swords listed on pages 145 and 146. The wights are listed as 2 lbs, 2.1 lbs, 2.3 lbs and later version coming in under 2 lbs at 1.9 lbs. The blades mounted in them are fullered and some are double and tripple fullered. They are similar to an early rapier blade more like an arming blade. Verry thin. However I have held in my hands an original from about 1640 that was mounted with a wide broad sword blade. I have also seen examples of these swords that have been remounted several times. -1st Mate of Pirates Magazine -Bladesmith/Owner of That Works Studio http://youtube.com/thatworks thatworks.shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Looking at those blades, I'd say 250 and 252 have lost blade weight due to corrosion and/or excessive sharpening. Neither blade is straight anymore. 251 puzzles me. Looking at it, it appears to be in reasonable shape so no loss like the previous two. Further examination of the picture shows, though, that it was made without the upper part of the basket and that the basket is relatively thin, in comparison to similar baskets. The blade is also shorter by a couple of inches. I'd have to say that it might have been a blade for a youth or smaller person, made lighter than the norm. 253 is listed as having an earlier blade, which definitely appears to be a cut down rapier blade. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stMate Matt Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Indeed. -1st Mate of Pirates Magazine -Bladesmith/Owner of That Works Studio http://youtube.com/thatworks thatworks.shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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