pistol holster

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Ahoy Matey's!

I be readin' the Real Pirates- the Companion Book to the Whydah Exhibition.

On page 70, they talk about the so - called "Sun King" pistol:

"Found with a silk ribbon tied around it's handle,and a hemp holster, the Sun King pistol has remarkable features."

I have been doing research, and I've never run across a pistol holster before. I've seen Baldrics that hold multiple pistols - as in Blackbeard engravins and woodcuts, and the Whydah wreckage itself corroborates pistols being strung on ribbons and hung around the neck..but I've never seen an illustration of a holster, or heard of one described before.

Does anyone have pictures or descriptions of this?

Help is much appreciated.

[theM.A.dDogge]

also known as pistol buckets....calvary had em....and i beleive several woodcuts show blackbeard to have em to....but out of hemp??....very cool....will have to look into that....have any pics??

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Haven't read it myself, but several postings of articles on the pistol state that the pistol was wrapped in cloth when found. Don't remember anything said about a hemp holster before. Is this a new developement? Curious....

Bo

[Gunpowder Gertie]

also known as pistol buckets....calvary had em....and i beleive several woodcuts show blackbeard to have em to....but out of hemp??....very cool....will have to look into that....have any pics??

No- that's what I was hoping, that someone else may have pics of the holster...

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Haven't read it myself, but several postings of articles on the pistol state that the pistol was wrapped in cloth when found. Don't remember anything said about a hemp holster before. Is this a new developement? Curious....

Bo

I almost missed it when I read the page, but I'm bored and have no new reading material at present, so I've reread the book a couple of times. Second read is when it fairly jumped out at me...I'd love to see this thing...

The book is from National Geographic, and it's the companion book to the exhibition, but I don't know if the holster is on display.I was hoping maybe someone who had seen the Whydah exhibit might have more info to share...

[michaelsbagley]

I almost missed it when I read the page, but I'm bored and have no new reading material at present, so I've reread the book a couple of times. Second read is when it fairly jumped out at me...I'd love to see this thing...

The book is from National Geographic, and it's the companion book to the exhibition, but I don't know if the holster is on display.I was hoping maybe someone who had seen the Whydah exhibit might have more info to share...

I've seen the Whydah exhibit twice, and I don't recall anything about the holster. There is also the book "Expedition Whydah", which I have, and haven't read in depth (I've read choice passages as I have felt the need). The National Geographic book is better for pictures, but the "Expedition Whydah" is better for technical details, having both makes for one great book.

That said, the holster thing may be based on extrapolated information.... Let's say they found hemp fragments covering most of the pistol, but there were not enough fragments to form any solid picture. Well saying the hemp fragments were a holster is a reasonable guess, but because they are fragments, no solid picture of what said holster looked can really be made now can it? This would be my best guess on the holster without doing further reading.

I have seen some images someone posted of a recreation they made of a hemp holster (although I think it was on the Pirate Brethren forum). I will try and have a look for that later, and see if there are any more solid leads there for you.

Cheers.

[Cascabel]

The hemp fragments may be simply the remains of a storage wrapping. Just like some of us today wrap our pistols up in a towel or something for protection when not in use. I would be hesitant to call it a holster without evidence of means of attachment to a belt or something of that type.

>>>> Cascabel

[michaelsbagley]

Here is the thread on the other forum that I recalled.... Aparrently there is comments in some of the Whydah documentation to it being a holster and not just fragments. Although there is no word as to what physical evidence there is to support the Hemp as a holster and not just fragmetary wrap.

Pistol Buckets discussion on the Pirate Brethren Forum

[Matty Bottles]

Shoddy provenance (at least what was available on the website) but still something to consider:

The box lock would put it at ~ 1735?

Historic Williamsburg thinks they were around, too...

[michaelsbagley]

I accidentally stumbled across this on eBay....

Leather pistol bucket on eBay

The bidding ends in 18 hours (from the time of this post), so I hope those interested get a chance to look at it before it disappears. It seems as if it is likely from a later period, but I don't think it looks too different from what I imagine a GAoP pistol bucket would look like.

Cheers

[blackjohn]

yeah, I've seen 'em... I probably even have some pics somewhere... and I wrote this, but I don't really remember what I said, or if I said anything about pistols...

http://www.piratebrethren.com/articles/wea...aponrigs01.html

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Thanks for the pics of the holster blackjohn..turned out I also had the answer right under my nose as well.

Here is a coloured engraving, and I believe it shows the hemp holster even better than the pic you posted.

The crosshatching on this engraving makes it quite clear that the holsters are made of a woven material- likely hemp.

[Capt Thighbiter]

As a side comment, I for the life of me can't figure out why holdsters or buckets were not common, period. Seems like the technology was certainly capable at the time of producing SOMETHING, even if it was on a craftsman, individual level. THere was certainly a need for them, like some here I've done the experiments with multiple guns (5) and at anything more then a brisk walk unsecured pistols flop around badly and loose the priming.

[blackjohn]

Agreed. I've done various experiments - pistols tucked in belts, sashes, on belt hooks, on ribbands, on ribbands and tucked into sashes, etc - and I've come to the conclusion that... pirates armed with pistols never ran! They sauntered.

There probably is some truth to this. What's the greatest distance one has to travel when crossing a deck...

[Fox]

Bear in mind that pirates with half a dozen pistol were, if not unusual, probably not the norm. I've not counted, but it seems to me that most reports that number pistols tend to mention two or three rather than five-six. Two pistols are a lot easier to handle (usually I have one clipped on my baldrick and another on my belt). But as John says, how far did pirates habitually travel carrying any number of pistols?

Gertie, be wary of assuming that cross-hatching = woven fabric. Engraving like the one you posted were intended to be one colour affairs, so cross-hatching was used to define shade as well as texture. This is not to say that the holsters in the picture aren't woven.

[MadL]

I found me a practical Pyrate Pistol Holster:

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Gertie, be wary of assuming that cross-hatching = woven fabric. Engraving like the one you posted were intended to be one colour affairs, so cross-hatching was used to define shade as well as texture. This is not to say that the holsters in the picture aren't woven.

Bein' an artist m'self, I am more than familiar with crosshatching. In this particular case, the rendering seems to indicate texture as opposed to simple light/dark. Being able to look at the book a bit closer than you are able, I can see that the artist has clearly made an effort to differentiate between the leather of the baldric, and the material of the holsters.

Also- engravings were not always strictly black and white, they were also hand coloured.It's entirely possible that the artist himself intended the print to be coloured, and it was not done after the fact.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Gunpowder Gertie

[Story]

I've not seen it mentioned here, but I could see where a hemp holster (made from scrap lengths of cordage) would be better in wet climates, as the hemp would breath better than leather and be less likely to unleash the Rust Demons upon one's pieces.

Ok, so who is up for knitting a sample or two?

[Patrick Hand]

I don't know.... but there is a really nice game holder made outta leather and covered with cloth shown in a painting that is posted in the haversack,snapsack, and market wallet thread.....

I kinda think the cross hatching was just to show a different color, and not to represent a different fabric... but heck... who knows.....

[gunner Gordon]

I have had to store my pistoles at sea on a tall ship sail for periods of time , the best way I found to keep them rust free , sort of, wasto wrap them in a heavey soft cloth after cleaning. any exposure to the sea air and the acids on your hands would promote rust as you watched, over time the oil transferred to the cloth made it more water proof.

[Silver]

having done some "confederate CW" naval reenacting, it is a fact that canvas was used when leather was in short supply. belts, cartridge boxes, cap pouches and rifle slings. canvas aboard a sailing ship was plentiful. also the skills to make anything from it. being a sailor, you have to be resourceful.

[Pirate Petee]

As a side comment, I for the life of me can't figure out why holdsters or buckets were not common, period. Seems like the technology was certainly capable at the time of producing SOMETHING, even if it was on a craftsman, individual level. THere was certainly a need for them, like some here I've done the experiments with multiple guns (5) and at anything more then a brisk walk unsecured pistols flop around badly and loose the priming.

Couldn't agree more. They had hemp and they made holsters, so? Maybe they were common, hemp bio-degrades pretty fast, especially in the tropics. Maybe thats why there are not that many surviving samples.

[gunner Gordon]

on board the ship, the only one carrying a pistol is someone with nothing to do, the crew's guns were typically in a bucket I thought, the belt hook woukld be enough for an officer etc. If holsters were more commen, then belt hooks would be less commen I would think.

[blackjohn]

on board the ship, the only one carrying a pistol is someone with nothing to do...

... and the guys getting ready to board the enemy ship.

:angry:

[gunner Gordon]

on board the ship, the only one carrying a pistol is someone with nothing to do...

... and the guys getting ready to board the enemy ship.

You mean the guys that are laying down their gunner's implements or leaving their sailing posts who are pulling the preloaded pistols out of the buckets,and drawing their cutasses from barrels or other storage places out of the way of the work to get the ship into the position to board? I submit that none of these could do their jobs wearing pistols on their person or cutlasses in their scabbards, I think from the actual evidence that a holster that would serve the purpose of going from ship to ship would be clumsy given the balance point of the gun and the snag and drag qualities of a flintlock, doglock or what have you. Even the navies of the period who supplied intricate (by comparison) scabbards and carraiges never made a serious attempt beyond belthooks to carry the pistol.