Sun King pistol

[Matusalem]

My apologies for not providing live photos in Philadelphia, the security in the museum was tighter than a drum. So instead, I purchased the National Geographic book in the museum store.

The Sun King pistol on display, I thought, was one of the most impressive parts of the exhibit. The gun itself has no barrel or trigger, but everything else is there. The portion where the barrel meets the wood is actually slightly shriveled and warped. The impressive part is the silk bandolier, which I can't understand why it is joined in the middle in the shape of an X. The book photos below are not how the gun and ribbons were displayed.

[Dutchman]

matusalem, thanks for the work in posting and letting us drool over it..

if the weapon was found wrapped and being such a nice piece, i wonder if that is how our friend protected it from the salt air?

From here out I'm looking at the ribbons from a tactical view including the psyche of a gun fight and is purely speculative. this is a longie so bear with me.

the ribbon was tied in the middle and not by the grip of the stock you say?

Playing with my pedersoli queen anne (ok ok different weapon all together) the balance point is directly underneath the pan, just foreward of the trigger guard. provided the sun king pistol was even remotely close in balance, tieing the ribbon there would interfere with the workings.

if the ribbon is behind the trigger guard you can fowl your hand in the ribbon easily, but hanging does put the weapon in a good natural alignment to grip it and allows it to be tucked into something.

while we can confirm that the ribbons were indeed on the weapons and used for retention, i suggest that they were still carried tucked into something. this prevents them from swinging, fowling in lines, or heaven help our pyrate- losing the prime by hitting the pan with something.

so why tied four point in the middle? lets look at the weapon. its obviously a beautie and probably the most dependable firearm this fellow has. keep it near and dear says I. durring a boarding the notion of standing upright on deck, taking a good posture, extending your arm and firing is a good way to end up feeding the sharks. this is certainly not likely to happen below decks either. If our pyrate carried multiple pistols, could this be his last ditch shot? As a last shot, it would need to be already out, not tucked away somewhere. in time of suprise or fear you duck and tuck your arms in towards your chest.... four points would work well for attatching it here... somewhere, somehow.....

so imagine... you are below deck cutlass in one hand, pistol in the other, sun king strapped to your chest. you are bent over (lets be realistic- there is not much room and only one direction to go), fire your pistol and jab away with the cutlass. someone steps from behind a bulkhead and takes aim. reach to your chest, pivot the sun king and fire. not beautiful or swashbuckling romantic, but its practical and works.

I know its coming..... well you have to aim. no you don't. this technique is called point of sight, point of impact and is currently used with handguns for close quarters. weapon from holster in hand straight up to the armpit (weapon is still pointing down, spine of thumb is in the armpit), look at target and rotate weapon up onto target- first shot. punch arm forward- second shot. arm fully extended second hand supports weapon and get sight picture off of front sight- third shot. a well versed pyrate could get a single shot out at any time using a similar technique. remember you're only fifteen to twenty feet away. It may not be center of mass, but you are going to hit something!!!!

back to the ribbon- a problem with securing it this way is you now have a loaded weapon on your chest aimed at your chin. not the best idea.

these are just my views based on current training standards and how they may relate to this practice. it is certainly not gospel and is open to others input and thoughts. of course none of us were there so we shall never know.

[Matusalem]

bbcdutchman wrote:

the ribbon was tied in the middle and not by the grip of the stock you say?

B, I have no idea how the explanation of how the ribbon was wrapped around the pistol handle, or where. The explanation at the exhibit says one thing, but the actual ribbon itself didn't make sense.

Since I had two security guards breathing down my neck, and I was not allowed to take a picture, I drew a quick sketch to show you what i saw:

[Capt. Sterling]

Tied at the ends and fashioned in the shape of an "X"... was it fastened, stitched, bound in some method at the center of the X to force it to stay so? Or was it just laid out in that fashion with the ends tied together?

[Dutchman]

M, thank you again for taking the time to post this little gem.

confusion on my reading then. i got it from the book page- not your statements, appologies. i was under the impression the ribbon was still connected. ah this is so frustrating- wasn't someone working on a bloody time machine? (Dutch looks around and kicks sterling in his good leg- no reason).

ok if it was tied at the ends. here are some possibilities.

X across the back, arms in holes weapon secured center front by the knotted ends.

X in front, weapon secured at the X, loops around arms and shoulders. not secured in the back

but why with such a fancy ribbon?

can it sling under an armpit?

is there anything in past military use similar that we can compare to? a leather version of something similar maybe?

was there anything on the gun that would look like a connecting point? a ring or slide?

was this just an extra waiting to be finished later. this could explain the missing innards and barrel. i find the missing trigger odd. it likely would not just corrode out over time without leaving a residue of some sort.

any others???????

[Capt. Sterling]

Unless there is more than a yard of the ribbon, which is hard to judge from both the sketch and the photos, but doesn't really look like there is, I would think your "back pack" approach wouldn't work..

[Dutchman]

sorry got sidetracked- drooling on a backstaff. anyhow, i'm not convinced on anything yet- but the ideas are running wild with possibilities. around a yard would be tight for the back idea, but would work around front. if its just a couple feet each, we go back to the functional grip idea. maybe it was just covering the mechanisms. drats-

sewing and swords????? possibly the third weekend in september? 13/14

just got off the phone with the better half- she's in if thats a good date.

[Capt. Sterling]

sorry got sidetracked- drooling on a backstaff.

Mine???

sewing and swords????? possibly the third weekend in september? 13/14

just got off the phone with the better half- she's in if thats a good date.

Need to check with my better half, by far, and confirm, but I don't think there be any plans fer that weekend...

as for a yard of ribbon "Xed" in the front... still rather snug even on a slim guy such as yerself... tell ye what I'll show you come Sept. For me, it hedges on whether that ribbon is fastened permanently into the X shape...

[Lady Seahawke]

ok here is a possibility?

Maybe?

what if the x part of the ribbon fit under the gun, the ribbon is wrapped up with the ends tied to a belt or sash? Could it then be sort of a sling holster? tightness of the way it was tied could be easily adjusted as needed?

As to ribbon being fancy, could be just what the pirate happened to found.

Just a off hand suggestion.

Ok, I am the first to admit I am probably wrong...

[Capt. Sterling]

Does anyone have a picture of Blackjohn wearing his pistols? He uses the ribbons or at least he has tried them...

[Capt. Sterling]

Some previous ribbon discussion

[Dutchman]

lady seahawk, at this point anything is possible. and since none of us were there all ideas are valid to suggest and its entirely possible.

Ok i took a measurement and for the ribbon to work across the back for me its got to be ATLEAST 40 inches to meet, nevermind tieing. But as a figure eight across the front it works just fine. until we can figure out the length i'm inclined to put my rationalle of mounting to the chest with the ribbons to the bottom of the possibles pile. I will still hold to the tactic but not the use of the ribbon.

I'm leaning towards Sterlings idea of a wrap on the frame to improve grip. but why two? maybe one as a grip, the other as a tether?

[Dutchman]

and yes your backstaff. its a beauty for shure. I just hope it does not break anywhere near as easily as mine did.

[Capt. Sterling]

Not mine. Tis now mistress #1...snigger. It will be treated with the utmost tender, loving care...