Why Bootstrap Bill?

[Charlotte Doyle]

It's good to see some other people putting this plot through the ringer.. I thought I was the only one :-)

Nope. You're not the only one. Me and my family were in deep thought the minute we left the theater after our first viewing . . . and I've been pondering the finer film points ever since!

'Cause it really _is_ a rather complex plot (one reason we like it so much, I think) -- it requires multiple viewings and a lot of thinking on it to keep everything straight.

[El Pirata]

It's funny that I didn't start putting the plot through the ringer until after I saw the English version a few months after I saw the Spanish version. It seems like it made more sense in Spanish than English.

[Cracked Carrie]

Something I always wondered is why does Barbossa get so agitated when Elizabeth holds the doubloon out over the side of the ship when she first gets kidnapped in Port Royal? Why not just let her drop it over the side and then tell one of his crew to "take a walk" on the ocean floor and pick it up?

*Grin* Well...depending on how deep the water is there, it could be problematical, even if the crew can walk on the ocean floor without breathing.

Imagine being at the bottom of the ocean, groping around in pitch blackness, and quite possibly very deep ooze, trying to find a single, small disk of metal...

I always figured that if poor ole Bootstrap had ever been able to get unchained, this was the problem he faced. Which way to walk, in the pitch blackness, that would eventually get you to land? And since a lot of sailors in this period actually couldn't swim...

Bootstrap had a lot of problems, he did.

Anyway, that's why I figure Barbossa was less than happy at the idea of the medallion going overboard.

[JoshuaRed]

Makes sense to me, Carrie! I was just being argumentative fer fun.

[julius27]

One o' the things I wondered at first was how Jack was normal at the jail if'n he be cursed at the island. I saw the bloody film three times afore it clicked in me 'ead that he stole a piece from the chest at the island. I also wondered momentarily why Barbosa and the lads didn't just go back and get ol' bootstrap offa the bottom. Then it occured to me that they probly didn't leave a bouy where they dumped the poor blighter. No, Carlotte, yer not the only one that don't see the light right off.

[Mucky_Pete]

Just something else to chuck in the pot.

They do mention that bootstrap was send to "The crushing oblivion of Davy Jones' Locker"

Suggesting that even tho he is cursed, the pressure o the sea would have crushed him utterly.

Kind of awkward escaping that fate, cursed or not.

[julius27]

I did notice one serious plot flaw in the entire movie. That is that it is not possible for a pirate crew to "commit mutiny." They are already criminals for being pirates and the position of captain is an elected one. Therefore, the marooning of Captain Jack Sparrow was a decision made by the crew at large and was not an act of mutiny, but rather democracy in action. However, it is popular in movies to omit this little tidbit of historical accuracy in favor of drama. It didn't bug me at all, I just thought I'd throw that in.

[Nomadicalpirate]

Eh I might of skipped a few posts that already answered something, but heres my bag of shillings, The lass wasn't cursed because she didn't steal it from the chest, and Will jnr may or may not have been cursed because although he didn't steal it, he was the son of BSB but he never got a fatal wound, so we don't know(he probably wasn't, not stealing it and all). And as I said in another post about the lost medallion, when will jnr first had it as a kid, they didn't know about the curse, so the crew o' the Pearl where none-to-fussed about losing one little disc, and, in answer the original question, which i'm sure someone already mentioned. the curse needed all the thieving scurvy dogs blood, and they all returned it cept BSB(e was dead o'course eh) on the topic, yes he is dead. Don't question the tricks and foibles of the curse, BSB is D.E.D. o'course, if i am wrong, you can all throw your tankards at me and i'll cover the drinks for a night, eh, it be late and the coffee be weak, i've forgotten the rest of what i was going to say, g'night folks, may your cups be deep and your kegs wide

[Cracked Carrie]

... is not possible for a pirate crew to "commit mutiny."

Heh. I'm sure it's all in the eye of the beholder. To the crew, they selected a new captain--who happened most pointedly NOT to be Jack Sparrow.

But to Jack, I'd say it's fair he'd think of it as a mutiny, even if he couldn't exactly hope for a court-martial awaiting his mutineers at the end of it.

Not denying what you say...a mutiny is against superior officers according to the dictionary entry I just read...so of course the implication is that there is a solid chain of command. But considering the person who is calling it a mutiny is Sparrow, I think it makes sense for his character to brand it that way.

- Carrie...who is babbling on in a didactic sort o' way, this evenin'

[Conner O'Dea]

Sparrow is the only one who called it a mutiny. Barbarossa told Jack he lost the Pearl. The answer to was it mutiny comes down to who you ask.

As to Bootstrap I've come 180 degrees on it. He is dead. Even the ghosts have to surcome to water pressure. The three guards on the island are blown apart when a bomb goes off in one of them. You therefore have to reason that the waterpressure would crush and mangle bootstrap's body to the point where he couldn't get free.

[Capt. Morgan]

Yeah, Bootstrap is probably dead... and to get historical, didn't a pirate crew actually vote a captain out of office, so to speak? If the crew simply rose up, took the ship by force, and marooned ol' Cap'n Jack Sparrow on his tiny spit of land, wouldn't that qualify as mutiny? Hmmm... "Bueller... Bueller... anybody?"

[Matty Bottles]

Shoot. If you want to get technical, let's just say that Jack actually did own the Black Pearl. So he assembled the crew, they took over the ship and marooned him, and thus is it mutiny. If Jack hired them, even if they were pirates, they were working in the capacity of a crew for a captain. Even if they were working "no prey, no pay," as did Captain Kidd's crew, if they didn't elect Jack captain in the first place, if he hired them, well, then it sounds like mutiny.

But I love my baseless conjecture. So, who wants to party? Woo-hoo!

*Does a foolish little party dance*

[El Pirata]

I tend to think of it along those lines too. I mean when Morgan sacked Panama in 1671 he assembled a large pirate force and named his own second in command of the force of 2000 pirates. I doubt seriously that anyone had elected Morgan as the overall Captain for the attack. Jack probably had assembled a crew as he did in Tortuga to find the Aztec gold. I agree calling the crew mutaineers as they did steal Jack's ship from him.

[Captain Charlotte Savvy]

I tend to think of it along those lines too. I mean when Morgan sacked Panama in 1671 he assembled a large pirate force and named his own second in command of the force of 2000 pirates. I doubt seriously that anyone had elected Morgan as the overall Captain for the attack. Jack probably had assembled a crew as he did in Tortuga to find the Aztec gold. I agree calling the crew mutaineers as they did steal Jack's ship from him.

Couldn't say it any better. :) I think I read somewhere that the writers, in earlier drafts of scripts and characters, made it a point to say that Jack acquired the Black Pearl, THEN his crew. So pirates or no, it was still his ship -- he probably made that clear when he brought the new crew on board. For all the good it did him!

[Captain Tito]

Ok,so the only reason why Jack gets cursed toward the end is cuz he picks up that one gold piece. I was thinkin he was cursed in the first place, but no one, not even Barbarosa knew.