detail voyeur

[lady constance]

Greetings!

as i wait for janet arnolds patterns of fashion 1660-1860 to be delivered to my house,

i was a wondering if anyone would like to post pictures of their pirate garb-- kind of close up shots of their sleeves and gussets and the back and front of breeches and the knees ---

either on your person or just laying flat -----

heck i will take pictures of any CLOTHING article---- { sorry- i see enough concupscience at work}

i am a very visual learner....if i can see it, i can do it!

PAX et ORO

lady constance

[michaelsbagley]

Hey Pax/Constance,

There are a few detail shots of some of my work in mt PhotoBucket account.

I'm at home today and tomorrow, so if there is anything else you would like to see in detail let me know and I can and will take and add more photos. Between myself and my fiance, we have a lot of garb, so if you narrow things down to start it would help. Are you working on your own garb first? Or your husband/boyfriends stuff first? (I forget what you said your other half was).

[lady constance]

Mickey--

took me a while to figure out how to navigate the photo bucket....

loved !!!!the close up shot of the buttons and button holes... was that on the justacorps?--- were those hand sown button holes?

can you take close up shots of the MENS shirt --> neck{ front and back] gussets area and underarms and cuffs of the mens shirt?

and also the breeches front and back waist bands? and the knees portion?

i really appreciate all of this-- and all the time you are spending doing this....

and stays--- your fiancees stays.... front and back { meaning the part that shows front and the backing of the frontside....

and the tie on skirts...

and mantua that you have made..front and back....close up...

all of the books that i ordered frmo alibris are supposed to be delivered by may 20th....feels like forever...

we are having a ren festival here in st louis for the next 3 weekends{starts the weekend of the 17th i beleive}... so i will be there just to look and enjoy the sights.... see if they have perhaps anything from goap.....maybe i will get lucky...

PAX et ORO

lady constance

[lady constance]

Mickey---

forgot to answer all your questions to me

1. the husband and i are married-- 22 years has thus availed us 9 kids--- LOL-- quite an availing!!

2 . i am working on MANY things all at once... breeches, shirts, skirts, stays. justacorp AND bell sleeved jackets chemises..... i have muslin sized patterns for 3 thus far....

but i WILL NOT NOT NOT proceed until i have the details regarding the hems and waist bands and grommet placement.... the palces where the detail makes or breaks the piece!!

and i am hoping the pictures you provide [ and any other volunteer] wil assist me in this quest for truth!!

pax et oro

lady constance

[historyfanatic]

Frock coat edge with handstitching and handmade buttonholes:

Sleeved waistcoat with more handstitching and buttonholes. Use matching linen thread or natural embroidery floss to make buttonholes that match the garment.

100% handstitched linen shirt:

Neckline:

Cuff:

Handstitching under arm near gusset:

Underarm gusset: (Use a perfect square. Beth Gilgun's book "Tidings from the 18th century has a great shirt pattern that can be adapted for any size and any period from GAoP to 1812. The rest of the book covers mostly later stuff though)

Rear waisband gusset in hemp knee-britches:

Frock coat pocket:

Close up w/ lining shown:

Hope this helps...

[michaelsbagley]

Mickey--

took me a while to figure out how to navigate the photo bucket....

loved !!!!the close up shot of the buttons and button holes... was that on the justacorps?--- were those hand sown button holes?

Yes those buttons and buttonholes were from the Justacorps, and they were hand sewn.

can you take close up shots of the MENS shirt --> neck{ front and back] gussets area and underarms and cuffs of the mens shirt?

Take a look at this Shirt Pattern, between the pics History Fanatic posted and this web page, you should be able to get it, but if not, let me know and I will add some more photos.

and also the breeches front and back waist bands? and the knees portion?

i really appreciate all of this-- and all the time you are spending doing this....

and stays--- your fiancees stays.... front and back { meaning the part that shows front and the backing of the frontside....

and the tie on skirts...

and mantua that you have made..front and back....close up...

all of the books that i ordered frmo alibris are supposed to be delivered by may 20th....feels like forever...

we are having a ren festival here in st louis for the next 3 weekends{starts the weekend of the 17th i beleive}... so i will be there just to look and enjoy the sights.... see if they have perhaps anything from goap.....maybe i will get lucky...

PAX et ORO

lady constance

Currently, the other half has the camera with her, but I will try to get some pics of breeches and the mantua and more of the stays up some time this weekend.

For now, here are a few more patterns that have been posted on this forum over the years (some probably a few times or more)...

Waistcoat/Weskit pattern

Early 1700s Justacorp/Frock pattern

Stays Pattern and calculator

Shift/Chemise instructions

CrazyCholeBlack's blog entry on knife pleating and petticote/skirt making

Another Waistcoat pattern with a pattern for breeches

I think there was another pattern for breeches that was posted on some thread a long time ago, but I wasn't able to find it....

I think that just about covers most of the basic clothing you will need...

[lady constance]

MICKEY!!!

yah!!

these are the precise details i was looking for!!!!

AHA!

now a few questions--- as to the weight of the linen shirts--

3.5 ounce? or 5? or 7?---

and i founf the pirate brethren website and read to my hearts content--

i noticed there a shirt from mary diamond----- collar AIN"T period pieced { and i could care less!!!} the details were THERE!!!

more later

pax et oro

lady con

[michaelsbagley]

now a few questions--- as to the weight of the linen shirts--

3.5 ounce? or 5? or 7?---

I have used both 5 and 7 for shirts and/or shifts/chemises... I have some 3.5 ounce that I am going to make a shift for Jessica/Kate out of... So I guess the answer (in my opinion) would be any of the 3... Although I find 5 ounce is the best balance for durability and softness/comfort for me and my tastes.

collar AIN"T period pieced { and i could care less!!!}

Uhm, collars are period, or that was my understanding... I think both collared AND uncollared shirts were used during the period... I hope collared shirts are period as both of my period shirts are collared.

[lady constance]

Mickey-

sorry about the interuption of my previous post...

the children were yelling my name-- { sounded like either bleeding OR excitement from fun--- happy to say it was-----!!!!!!!

PACKAGE OF FABRIC DELIVERED!! THE LINEN FABRIC i ordered saturday from where cap'n sterling sent me came today!!!

GORGEOUS!! i can begin today....

all my muslin patterns cut pieces for patterns can now be used on the linen!!!

ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU HAVE REFERED ME TO IS WONDERFUL AND confirms my research that i have done!!! i owe you more than a debt of gratitude-- although i do think i have caught the virus of historical fanaticism!!! { and a love fo fabulous fabric i already HAVE!-- just ask the Dear husband!!}

QQQQQ-- question---i am not so sure about the weight of linen for the breeches i intend to make.... i think for the boys esp, it needs to be heavier weighted for wear.... or should i say ABUSE!!-- or is it canvas all the way??? { SIGH__ more research!!}

so the question come to me.. IS WOOL A BETTER CHOICE?

and if it IS, then do you wash to shrink it PRIOR to sewing { KEEP THE HUSBAND AWAY FROM THE WASHER WHEN IT COMES TO WOOL ITEMS!! RULE NUMBER ONE-- NO ONE NO ONE touches anything in mothers laundry basket!!!

QQQQQQQ-- question--- when you went about sewing did you make your patterns out of muslin ,,then dry fit and then decide to make the same pattern for the real fabric???? { this is how i do it for a perfect garment of any type that i am re creating from a " look" }

QQQQQQQ-- question____ do you preshrink your material { wash and dry it}even your LINEN before ever sewing or cutting it? { years of sewing have taught me that this is BEST--- even if you are ironing it for a while previous to cutting it}

QQQQQQQ--- how about breeches front picture? can you do that when your beloved gives back the camera? please?--AND the knees area-- the banding/ closure area...

now i shall pray about what i shall do to repay you { and capn sterling} for all your favors and assistance to me and th family-----

for now it is just prayers.... what divine favors shall i request for you?

and i SHALL post ALL finished items.. perhaps the return of favor shall involve making you a shirt ---after 25 are made, what is another 1 or 2? all i will need will be the measurements!! hmmmmm... me brain is tossing this all around.....

pax et oro { do you wnat a translation? }

lady constance

[michaelsbagley]

Mickey-

sorry about the interuption of my previous post...

the children were yelling my name-- { sounded like either bleeding OR excitement from fun--- happy to say it was-----!!!!!!!

PACKAGE OF FABRIC DELIVERED!! THE LINEN FABRIC i ordered saturday from where cap'n sterling sent me came today!!!

GORGEOUS!! i can begin today....

all my muslin patterns cut pieces for patterns can now be used on the linen!!!

ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU HAVE REFERED ME TO IS WONDERFUL AND confirms my research that i have done!!! i owe you more than a debt of gratitude-- although i do think i have caught the virus of historical fanaticism!!! { and a love fo fabulous fabric i already HAVE!-- just ask the Dear husband!!}

You're most welcome, but just about everyone on this forum deserves more credit and your thanks than I do... Most of that information is a result of other peoples research and time... I am just a good indexing system to remember other peoples researches...

QQQQQ-- question---i am not so sure about the weight of linen for the breeches i intend to make.... i think for the boys esp, it needs to be heavier weighted for wear.... or should i say ABUSE!!-- or is it canvas all the way??? { SIGH__ more research!!}

so the question come to me.. IS WOOL A BETTER CHOICE?

and if it IS, then do you wash to shrink it PRIOR to sewing { KEEP THE HUSBAND AWAY FROM THE WASHER WHEN IT COMES TO WOOL ITEMS!! RULE NUMBER ONE-- NO ONE NO ONE touches anything in mothers laundry basket!!!

I would recommend cotton canvas for the kids... and don't even spend the money on period canvas (hemp or linen, cotton canvas was really more of a 19th century thing), they will wear through and outgrow things, so spending the extra money on the high end stuff wouldn't be worth it (in my opinion). ALTHOUGH, for just a little more money than cotton canvas, you can get Fustian canvas (50/50 cotton/linen) which looks almost exactly like pure linen canvas... I have used the BNH-602 from Period Fabrics for a few projects (including a hand sewn tarp shelter)...

QQQQQQQ-- question--- when you went about sewing did you make your patterns out of muslin ,,then dry fit and then decide to make the same pattern for the real fabric???? { this is how i do it for a perfect garment of any type that i am re creating from a " look" }

Because I spent the extra money on commercial patterns, I just cut out paper patterns in the appropriate size, and went with that... I don't have the patience (and perhaps skills) for scaling period patterns... But I would guess making cheap mock-ups out of muslin would be a good idea...

QQQQQQQ-- question____ do you preshrink your material { wash and dry it}even your LINEN before ever sewing or cutting it? { years of sewing have taught me that this is BEST--- even if you are ironing it for a while previous to cutting it}

I preshrink my linens, but not wool. I do pre-wash wool and then HANG TO DRY, which does sometimes shrink the wool slightly... But never, ever, EVER put wool in the dryer.

QQQQQQQ--- how about breeches front picture? can you do that when your beloved gives back the camera? please?--AND the knees area-- the banding/ closure area...

I will take some pictures of my breeches as well when I can get to it later this weekend.

now i shall pray about what i shall do to repay you { and capn sterling} for all your favors and assistance to me and th family-----

for now it is just prayers.... what divine favors shall i request for you?

and i SHALL post ALL finished items.. perhaps the return of favor shall involve making you a shirt ---after 25 are made, what is another 1 or 2? all i will need will be the measurements!! hmmmmm... me brain is tossing this all around.....

pax et oro { do you wnat a translation? laugh.gif }

lady constance

Seriously, you owe me nothing... All I have done is spent a few minutes here and there answering your questions with the same information many of the folks that have been around this forum longer than I have shared with me when I was learning (and I am still learning)...

Sure, please do translare "Pax et oro"... Although, isn't "oro"="gold"? So wouldn't it be "something" of gold?

[historyfanatic]

Always pre-shrink your fabric. Yes...

However, do not wash wool in warm water or put it in the dryer. It will felt something terrible and you'll be left with a much smaller, though thicker, piece of fabric. This wool felt is great for other projects though!

I didn't include the front of the breeches in the pictures becuase they are fall front with is wrong for GAoP. You'll want French Fly fronts which are easier and more correct. I didn't want to lead you down a wrong path... I do other time periods outside of GAoP, but some parts are essentially the same such as gussets and things.

[historyfanatic]

Oro is gold, pax is peace...

Peace of gold?

Anyway, Yes, I agree that using the cheaper fabric for the kids is better. But fustian is also really good.

One word to the wise if you are planning on making your own patterns: In the 18th century, as today, clothing was made to fit the way a person stands. Unfortunately posture has changed greatly over the last 300 years. 18th century posture was to stand or sit up straight with event a slight curve to the back and shoulders pulled back harshly. This was the posture they were accustomed to, so it wasn't as odd to them as it is to us. Reproduction clothing made off of books such as Janet Arnold's will come out with such a posture fitting. In other words, if you copy a 300-year-old-garment and put it on a modern body, it's going to be too tight in the back and shoulders. You'll either need to adjust for modern posture, or tell the kids they are going to have to sit up straight. :)

I recommend making a mock-up before you cut the expensive fabric. Use anything cheap. ($1 a yard stuff from wal-mart works for this) Make sure the pattern is going to fit proper. That way you don't waste a bunch of really nice fabric by making it a hair small or something.

[Capt. Sterling]

MICKEY!!!

yah!!

these are the precise details i was looking for!!!!

AHA!

now a few questions--- as to the weight of the linen shirts--

3.5 ounce? or 5? or 7?---

and i founf the pirate brethren website and read to my hearts content--

i noticed there a shirt from mary diamond----- collar AIN"T period pieced { and i could care less!!!} the details were THERE!!!

more later

pax et oro

lady con

The higher the class you portray the lower the weight in ounces for linen...

3.5oz would suit your officers/gentlemen/ladies = shirts, cravats and shifts

the 5.01 - 5.3 oz would be better for more middling sorts= shirts/shifts

[Capt. Sterling]

Agreed with the gents to pre wash and dry yer linen... then just hang to dry when you wash after an event... As to the wool... I do not pre wash, and have never had a problem with shrinkage even after "swimming" in kit down at PiP ...ahem... several times.... if anything the wool came out of the drink far nicer than when it went in... For our crewe, none of our woolen items go to the dry cleaners... ever.

As to abuse and wear...

I tend to agree with Mr. Bagley as to not necessarily spending the money on the fabric for kids... BUT in your case you might want to consider using proper linen or wool for breeches (might I recommend trousers for the younger boys... a bit easier to make) and then hand me down when they grow out of them....

Most of the kids in the Archangel crewe opt for pc fabrics and just pass the items along to the next when they out grow them, although as long as the fabric pretty much looks correct for the little ones we don't make an issue of it..

As for abuse... our kids, except for the captain's daughter, do not play upper class children... so if they wreck their clothes, all the better... Only Maddogge and Gunner can age an outfit quicker than the young ones...

there is nothing wrong with dirt, stains that won't wash out, patches, etc.

[Capt. Sterling]

Waistband back...eyelets are hand stitched... no grommets

Button fly front

and sorry, these are not the best as my breeches are black on black for a mourning suit... but knee band opened and closed.

Some way of closing the knees of breeches could be opened knee, no band at all,

a band with drawstring,

or a band with buckle...

Word of caution, it was fashionable to wear one's stockings drawn up over the knee, I have found that the buckle has a tendency to rip the stockings when worn this way...

The fit of the breeches should be fairly loose, skin tight legs and thighs seem to come into fashion later along with baggier seats to accommodate the tighter legs...

[Capt. Sterling]

Close up w/ lining shown:

Right then for GAoP, we do not do a running stitch/top stitch, we do a stitch called a prick stitch (Thank you Kass McGann for all your time and energy researching and teaching this stitch) it looks like a running stitch on the top side or outer/visible side of the garment and on the inside or lining side of the garment, it is a whip stitch that once pulled snug is almost invisible.

[Capt. Sterling]

For Jack...

back spiral lacing for the waistcoat. threaded with 1/4" Dutch twill tape (linen) from William Booth. And just to clarify, no I did not cut the edges in a scallop/wave fashion, that is pulling from wear...

..

[Capt. Sterling]

Trousers on the midshipman instead of breeches... ignore his shirt collar, tis an old Rev. War style shirt he's wearing...we usually cover it up with a cravat or tuck it inside his shirt...

[lady constance]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

wonderful fabulous fantastic magnificent bravo !!!!

thank you mickey, capn sterling, history fanatic !!!!

from the bottom of my heart!! thank you!!

the huge muslin Gaop shirt fits the 21 year old that will be coming-- he said "YAH-- now THATS a shirt! make me 10 of them mom-- i'll wear them everyday!!"----- one convert, 8 to go!

re working the dear husbands pattern size.... and THANK you for the post explaining that posture makes a difference--- although husband wants me tot try a curved neck line on the Gaop shirt.... a square elipse if you can imagine to keep the back from pulling forward while the sleeves want to roll forward...... or by adjusting the arms forwards one inch off center line....{ his idea-- man is genuis about physics and ANY kind of construction}

the boys breeches--- a standard size 2 toddler is fitting the 10 year old son well---- hmmm.... looking similar to baseball pants......excepting the waist band....got a bit of work on this , but every screw up is learning and that cannot be taken away from me ! HA HA! i still win!!---

quite a moment when the oldest son and father had on pirate shirts....

darn handsome men they be!!! { or is it the shirt that makes them so?}

and the ten year old was THRILLED!!!!

and these are only the muslin dry fits....!!!!promise to make the dh post a link to a page...........

got to go--

tis 4am!!!!!

PAX ET ORO { peace and prayer}

lady constance