roytheodd Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 In The Arts of the Sailor: Knotting, Splicing and Ropework and The Marlinespike Sailor Mr. Smith details the making of a sea bag - a rucksack large enough for sailors to keep their kit in and to sling over their shoulders. Does anyone know if these sea bags would be period correct? I'm under the impression that sailors had sea chests rather than bags, but I suspect that impression is because of the long standing association of pirates and treasure chests. If I were to make a sea bag with period correct materials would it fit in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 i believe sea bags would be more convenient than chests and are documented as being around. unfortunately, i do not know of an actual surviving example. anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 There is a search engine over in Captain Twill that may help you with this question... if I recall correctly there are a number of discussions regarding both bags and chests there... so hopefully they may be of assistance to you. "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_MacNamara Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I carry my garb in a sea bag, and I *believe* they would be a period-correct item, though I'm not for sure. It's one of those items whose origin is hard to track down. Captain of the Iron Lotus It is the angle that holds the rope, not the size of the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Jon Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I found this interesting article on sea bags and ditty bags - http://www.frayedknotarts.com/files/dittybagbox.html Jonathan Washbourne "Jonathan Washbourne Junr of Bridgwater appeared in court and was ordered to pay £5 fees and charges or be publicly whipped 20 stripes for his abusive and uncivil behaviour to Elizabeth Canaday Late of said Bridgwater by Thrusting up or putting of a skunk under the Cloaths to her Naked Body And then saying he had Done the office of a midwife." (from The Plymouth Journal, July 1701) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 iron john, thats the ditty bag pattern i used to make mine, but i cheated and made my finished bottom eight inches so i could carry my plate. if anyone was at pyratecon this year i think was the ONLY person carrying a ditty bag. Lots of haversacks and ladies bags though. thats a nice looking seabag to boot. i had not seen those plans . off to another project now- thanks. anyone who is smarter than i that can post pictures!! can someone find the hogarth picture with a ditty bag slung over the sailors back on a stick and bump it over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm not sure if a sea bag is 100% period correct, but I made one that I use when I fly out to PiP. A sea chest would be too akward to carry out to the Fort, and fly with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I don't know if this is splitting hairs or not... But snapsacks are probably period correct. There are references to them from the English Civil war right up through the F&IW and American Revolution, and since the GAoP falls right in there, I see no reason why not to use them.... This link has been posted on the pub a few times, but for ease of reference... How to make a canvas snapsack Some people prefer to have opennings on both ends of their snapsacks, but the above instructions could easily be modified in that way if any so choose to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Don't "wallets" fit right in there too? (i.e "market wallets) Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 capt bo, your talking about the flat hourglass looking bag slit in the middle? not saying right or wrong, but i have seen them at jamestown and plymouth. i have not asked about their documentation though. as far as bags vs chests at sea. chests were obviously present. but i wonder about their storage, weight, and convenience while at sea. they were needed but from a captain/ owners standpoint would not be a wise first choice to have on board with an ever changing crew. they weigh a lot and take up room that could be better spent on cargo or accomodations. Someone correct me if i'm wrong here. In the book Billy Bud, by Herman Melvile, is Billy not told to leave his chest behind and pack a bag instead as chests were not allowed on man o wars? I know the story line is fiction and late for our period, but his shipboard details were pretty good, maybe a clue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 capt bo,your talking about the flat hourglass looking bag slit in the middle? Yes, but mine is full rectangle instead of hourglass. Ed Wilde of Wilde Weavery makes and sells them. When I see him in June I will ask. he documents all he makes. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadL Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Not being a historic expert at all but just from basic sense it would seem to me that where 'pirates' are concerned a sack would be far more practical. Aside from Naval life where one would be 'enlist' and 'report' (baring that they may have been 'pressed' into service in which case they most likely went aboard with neither), I would find it hard to visualize a bunch of men hanging out in port while looking for a ship and carrying a chest everywhere with them. And below deck on a pirate sloop would most likely be very annoying if every man kept his stuff in a wooden boxes laying all over the place. Perhaps in fishing fleets chests for every crewman may have worked, but on a sloop where ruffians and cutthroats come and go or one was wondering in search of a crew? I would think a sack would much more practical and much easier for one to come by. Now I do seem to remember a story of one who carried a 'croc-o-dile' case with him aboard a ship, but the captain noticed the buttons down the side and well..... ~All skill be in vain if an angel pisses down th' barrel o' yer flintlock! So keep yer cutlass sharp, 'n keep her close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I use a snapsack for my Buccaneer stuff, in the photo, one end is cinched and tied shut, and the other end is shown open. But I've noticed that you have to put all the small stuff into other little bags, because both ends don't close quite tight enough. The other problem with a snapsack, I can figure they would be used by Landsmen, but they are not the most practicle fo carrying and storing stuff. I figure that bags have been around forever, so they would have been used aboard a ship. My question about them being 100% authentic is not the bag, but the fancy knotwork on the lanyard. Pyrates were Sailors, and would have known all of the basic knots needed to make a lanyard. I'm guessing that a Sea Bag is close enough to period, and they "look" right, so I use one. But I can't document it. Hey, I've made ditty bags, the plain ones are probably period, and the one that I carry with the fancy fringe is closer to Whailing era... but it works, and looks cool, so I don't worry too much about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hearted Pearl Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I don' know if any of you will be interested in this, but at your local grocery store in the laundry section you can find a 100% raw cotton 'laundry' bag that closes with cotton rope. The stops on the bag are not period, but the rest 'passes in a pinch'. I just broke off the plastic stops. To me, the sea bag is seems just a repurposed sail bag. When my nylon sail bag for my pop bottle sails wore out, I replaced it with the nylon version of the 'laundry' bag. It's working great. ~Black Hearted Pearl The optimist expects the wind. The pessimist complains about the wind. The realist adjusts the sails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Can't get a link to work for me today. I went to the Frontier Folk forums with the question on Market wallets. Wow! This is the ticket for those who want/need a simple way to carry things. An easy first project too. http://frontierfolk.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15956 http://frontierfolk.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15916 Hey it worked this time! Check out the info on the wallets here. I will try and post photos of mine later with my new trade. Enjoy... Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 huzzah for bo!!!!!! well i know what i'm going to be doing at the yorktown raid next weekend. already know what material i'm going to use. now if we can just sink one on top of queen anne or whydah to make them periodly documented on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Had to charge up batteries for the camera. Here is my wallet; You can go up or down with the sizes and carry anything you want over the shoulder with these. smaller belt slit pouches, or pack-overs for horeses and mules, any size in between. And here's one with my recent trade acquisition; (more up in Rabble rousing!) Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 nice looking gear bo. how does the load feel while your carrying it? any idea about how much weight you can load before it gets uncomfortable on the shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Load is fine, you must learn to balance things. I have carried around 25 lb.s for a long day and switching shoulders frequently. It hasn't caused any ill effects. I have rotator cuff in one shoulder, and have had the operation on the other and it doesn't bother me to carry things this way. I prefer it over the straps on any kind of bag or pack actually. They all seem to cut into the shoulder after a while. Used with tump-lines for the bedroll a person can carry alot of stuff this way if need be. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytheodd Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 A wallet like that is period correct? I've never seen one of those before. I think I might make one just for walks to the grocery store and back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytheodd Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 AHA! In this thread in Capt. Twill I found the following picture showing a 19th century British sailor. While I understand the period of the picture is wrong for what I'm going for, would having a ditty bag like the one hanging from his waist be implausible in the GAoP? I don't recall having ever seen a picture, painting or woodcut showing pirates (or sailors for that matter) carrying any personal luggage such as sea bags, chests, or ditty bags yet we know they hauled their swag in something. Would having a ditty bag or a small pouch designed like a ditty bag fit or would it ruin a good costume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Nope. It would be a fine addition , especially if you build it yourself. Things like that take on "special" qualities with use over time too. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Thank you for the information shared in this thread. I always pictured the wallet as much smaller, so I found the shape and look confusing. I found myself slapping my forehead as I read the posts. My "duh" moment of the week. My lovely wife just offered to make me one. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Would having a ditty bag or a small pouch designed like a ditty bag fit or would it ruin a good costume? A ditty bag is what was used to carry all of your ropework and sewing stuff. So technacly, unless you were working on something, why would you be carrying it? But... In a discusion about where to carry a tankard ... You wouldn't be walking around with one on your belt, but at a Faire or something a tankard looks better than a plastic cup...) or where do you carry the non-period, but handy to have ....camera? So carrying a dittybag would look OK, just slip the lanyard through your belt, and it will (sorta) stay there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytheodd Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Would having a ditty bag or a small pouch designed like a ditty bag fit or would it ruin a good costume? A ditty bag is what was used to carry all of your ropework and sewing stuff. So technacly, unless you were working on something, why would you be carrying it? But... In a discusion about where to carry a tankard ... You wouldn't be walking around with one on your belt, but at a Faire or something a tankard looks better than a plastic cup...) or where do you carry the non-period, but handy to have ....camera? So carrying a dittybag would look OK, just slip the lanyard through your belt, and it will (sorta) stay there... Yeah, it's really for lack of pockets that I'd want to carry one. If I can stow my keys and wallet elsewhere I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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