Flint/Wheel/Dog/Cap..lock Safety

[hitman]

On the subject of pyrodex I would agree it must be almost worthless to reenactors. It was designed to be a reliable powder for hunting hence its avalibility in a capusle form. It reguires a hotter burn rate (this is why inlines are going to shotgun primers) but is supposed to be more resistant to humiditty and as said before can be reloaded faster than powder in its capsual form. If one was starting out in the world of black powder for hunting or competitive shooting it would propably be advisable as it ellimanates much of the measureing and possible explosians(i.e. the reloding from a flask being a grenade) but it just won't have the look of black powder

[Cascabel]

Actually, the most important problem regarding Pyrodex or other black powder substitutes is very poor ignition with flintlocks.

The reason real black powder is not available everywhere is that it comes under an entirely different set of rules as far as storage and sales regulations. Real black powder is classified as an explosive under the law, rather than a "flammable solid", which is the classification for Pyrodex and other smokeless powders. Compliance with the rules in order for a dealer to stock real black powder involves obtaining an explosives license, just like if you wanted to sell Dynamite or other explosives, with related storage and record keeping regulations, including periodic inspections and a storage "magazine". All of which most retailers don't want to deal with. Pyrodex can be simply placed on an open shelf in the store like fishing lures or anything else.

All that being said, another reason real black powder is prefferable is that it generally costs about half as much as Pyrodex or other substitutes.

>>>>> Cascabel

[hitman]

A good point Cascabel I had forgoton about the explosive listing for black powder. I always thought that a little odd seeing as how pyrodex and the like have more power per grain. Oh well best not to be given the law makers any ideas. (won't have anything left that smokes) I agree that flint locks would( I use would for my lack of experince with the flash and pan is limited) have trouble with pyrodex as I said it reguires more heat to ignite. While I have your attention I'd like to apologize for the seemingly wierd times I post if it takes me a while to get back too you its because I work third shift here in the real world.

[Zorg]

Deacon,

Thankye for the ballistics link to remington. That really brings the differences in velocities into focus.

To second the comments about pyrodex, We keep yelling at reenactors, both in the Civil War and Am Rev. and Rendezvous arenas (and Ive dealt with all of them) THIS STUFF IS NOT INTERCHANGABLE WITH BP IN THE SAME AMOUNTS.

Boom. Leather pouches open, aperiod cell phones produced, 911 called......

This is called:

Natural Selection.

[Longarm]

Thanks guys, keep the info and links comeing.

New question with blackpowder listed as an explosive and dealers not wanting to deal with all the rules and licenses how do you buy and store BP. I know Capt. Hawkyns mentioned a place in PA where he gets his but, to get enough to use your cannon don't you need a license to transport and store enough to be of use?

I know I'm a long way off from being anywhere close to understanding all there is to know on this subject hell, I don't think anyone out there knows it all or can't learn something new from time to time. But until I find the right place around here to learn first hand you good people here at Captain Twill are my best resorce on this subject. If I sound to enthusiastic about this subject do not worry I will not run out buy a BP weapon and start trying to use it without proper instruction. I write this after reading some of my past poste, and to me I think I sound just alittle to eager to get my finger on the trigger. If I sound that way to any of you or if I start to sound that way please throw up a red flag and slow me down, my feelings will not be hurt and you will be doing me a favor. Thanks.

[Cascabel]

Longarm, me lad...

Black powder can be had from some gun shops that cater to the muzzle loading community in most metropolitan areas. You will likely have to make some phone calls. Be forwarned, some store clerks are not as knowledgeable as they should be, and will tell you they have black powder when all they have is Pyrodex. MANY do not know the difference. You could possibly find a well informed enthusiast at a gun range to help you locate powder, but again, don't count on it. There is a tremendous wealth of BAD information out there !!!!!

Black powder can also be ordered from a few suppliers, and shipped direct to your door in 25 pound lots. It is quite inexpensive this way, being in the neighborhood of $7.00 a pound. If you can get some friends to go in with you on an order, it's the best deal. Personally, I do not want that much at one time in my house. I usually try to have less than ten pounds on hand.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Longarm]

Thanks Cascable I'll keep that in mind, after all I can't be the only one in the world who doesn't know enough about blackpowder. And taking the word from an unknowlegable store cleck just because they work behind the counter of a gunshop does sound extremly dangerous. I've never believed that the customer is always right, and I tend to forget that the salesperson isn't always right either. Keep the advice coming it can only help to make me a wiser customer.

[Black Deacon]

Pick up a copy of Shotgun news and you'll find many people who carry it. I prefer Dupont but Elephant isn't bad either. But you can have up to 25lbs shipped to your door. Even in Houston we are down to 2 shops that carry it on hand. Because of our local Fire Department.

[Hawkyns]

Interesting. My preference is exactly the opposite. I find Elephant fouls less. It's not as available as Dupont, though, unfortunately.

Longarm, the amounts are not as much as you'd think. Most smaller cannon 1-4 pdrs, generally use relatively small charges. 1 to 1 1/2 ounces per inch of bore is a basic starting point. Once you get over that size, you are talking serious weaponry that requires a whole lot of people and cargo capacity to haul around. Most of the people who have personal pieces stay in that range. So 4-5 pounds of powder will keep you shooting for a couple of good battles on a weekend or a demo every hour. I'm like Cascabel, I don't like having a huge amount in the basement, 6 pounds or so of mixed grades is about as much as I feel comfortable with. For events where I need a lot, I buy it as close to the event as possible to limit storage time.

Hawkyns

[hitman]

A friend of mine who has been into reloading and bp for several decades longer than I have been alive (hey when youre 24 lots of pepole can say that) has a shed about 300 yards away from his house where he stores his powder even though he does his reloading in the garge. Now this is for those who are beyond serious longarm. I do however reccomend you keep any form of ammo wether its bp or the modern ammo locked up somewhere out of the way. By this I mean that closet in the back room that no one uses more than ounce a year. The reason for this is... well curiosity killed the cat. I don't know if kids are an issue in you're home but even adults that don't know about something can and will get themselves killed playing with it. and belive me the average middle age male (or us younger males) love to play with toys that are dangerous. I haven't done any reenacting with live fire so I havent ordered any bp. I dont think it would be shiped much diffrent than my hogden powder is though. I store it in its original jar locked inside whats called a security cabniet. (those meteal gun cabniets you see at wal mart for a hundred bucks) Since I dont store it indoors I use a product called the golden rod ( a dehumidiffer) to keep the moisture out. ....Looking back at this post I have to question wether or not storing bp in doors is a good idea at all. I do keep my cartridge type ammo indoors. Hawkyns whats your take on this.

['Salem Bob']

NEVER LOAD FROM THE HORN!!!!! if you get a spark and a cook-off, you now have a grenade in front of your face. Always transfer from horn to measure to barrel and make sure you plug your horn before putting powder into the barrel. Paper cartridges are period from the 1580's on. Bandoliers of bottles are common until the 1680's, one premeasured charge per bottle. Paper cartridges for pistol are carried in belt boxes and are period from the 1580's.

If you go to a blackpowder gunshop, they will have some beginner books. I recommend getting one and reading carefully. Most BP gunshops are only too happy to jaw for a a while about their suggestions for the weapons they sell.

Hawkyns

Not to be correcting you gunner Hawkyns (you are far more experienced than I, but I may have chanced upon some references you might not have seen), but cartridges appear in Burgundian inventories (for ordinance) from the 1460's - If your interested in early artillery, you should try to get a copy of Garnier's "L'Artillerie de le Ducs de Bourgogne" (pardon any misspelled French), and they are referenced for shoulder fired arms in Swiss sources from the 1470's and 80's - check out Bertram Halls work on Late Medieval and Rennaissance warfare - the discussion on advances in powder milling and tube casting are fascinating. "Die Burgunderbeute" is also a treasure of early tubes of Burgundian origin, now in Switzerland.

[Hawkyns]

[cartridges appear in Burgundian inventories (for ordinance) from the 1460's - If your interested in early artillery, you should try to get a copy of Garnier's "L'Artillerie de le Ducs de Bourgogne" (pardon any misspelled French), and they are referenced for shoulder fired arms in Swiss sources from the 1470's and 80's -

I've seen the ordnance cartridge references from the ealier period. The cartridges for smallarms is new to me from that period. Are they in the same book? And is Garner in English? I've piggybacked a lot of my research from that period on Gerry Embleton's work, he being 'on the spot' so to speak. None of his work, or the sources that he's referenced and I've been able to find, mention the small arms cartridges.

Hawkyns

['Salem Bob']

Ahoy Gunner Hawkyns,

Alas, Col. Garnier is French, and his work is in same. His work unfortunately is rare - I bought it from a Parisian bookdealer once, but the Post Office driver peeling open an 18 wheeler over the expressway in Boston unfortunately destroyed said copy before I've ever had hands on it. Lovely late 19th century book destroyed. I have some brief excerpts photocopied.

Hall has the references for the handgun cartridges, which are Swiss, and are in German. I think Embleton might have them on the 'Online Dragons' on the Company of St. George (Swiss) website.

I think we have ran into each other at the Higgins once, you had attended one of our shows (Company of the Wolfe Argent, 'How a Man schalle be Armed') - if we run across each other at some point, I'll give you copies what I've got.

[Hawkyns]

Thanks for the reference It's not my primary period, so my research there is not as deep as in other areas.

I do believe you are correct. I get up there often enough and I have spoken to you guys. Don't remember if I was up there on a research trip or if I was up for one of Keith Ducklin's sword seminars. So you've joined the dark world of Pyracy. Welcome aboard, and I'll look forward to meeting on the New England pirate circuit. My gun crew is putting together a calendar and I'll let you know as soon as it's set.

Hawkyns

[Longarm]

New question. After looking at Casabels blunderbeast in the photo gallery I got to wondering how one went about loading one of these? I now know to use the same amount of grains of powder as the gauge of the ball. 60 grains for 60 gauge, 50 for 50 ect... But how does one tell with a blunderbuss? How much powder is needed, how many balls do you load and how? Are they just put in one by one or are they packed in a bag , kind of like grapeshot? And what kind of wadding is used to keep everthing in place? The wadding question also applies to the pistols as well. If useing a paper cartridge does the paper then become the wadding after it's contents have been poured in?

You guys are right about finding the right group to learn from. I just met a guy a work who's brother was going to join a BP group, he say it ended up being a bunch of rednecks who didn't seem to care about safety. It seem they just wanted to run around making things go boom. Needless to say his brother got the hell out of there. Good on him.

[Cascabel]

New question. After looking at Casabels blunderbeast in the photo gallery I got to wondering how one went about loading one of these? I now know to use the same amount of grains of powder as the gauge of the ball. 60 grains for 60 gauge, 50 for 50 ect... But how does one tell with a blunderbuss? How much powder is needed, how many balls do you load and how? Are they just put in one by one or are they packed in a bag , kind of like grapeshot? And what kind of wadding is used to keep everthing in place? The wadding question also applies to the pistols as well. If useing a paper cartridge does the paper then become the wadding after it's contents have been poured in?

You guys are right about finding the right group to learn from. I just met a guy a work who's brother was going to join a BP group, he say it ended up being a bunch of rednecks who didn't seem to care about safety. It seem they just wanted to run around making things go boom. Needless to say his brother got the hell out of there. Good on him.

To load a blunderbuss, First keep in mind that contrary to popular belief, you do NOT load it with rusty nails, broken glass, etc. Imagine, if you will, a nail getting jammed cross-wise in the bore with the rest of the load trying to get past it !!!!

To do it properly, you measure out the proper powder charge, which is about the same as that used in a similar caliber musket (not the large end of the barrel, but the size of the bore at the small end of the barrel). This is then followed by a thick wad of paper or unravelled rope, greased to prevent rust in the bore if left loaded and not to be fired immediately. (This acts as a sort of "piston" to push the entire load of shot out of the barrel). The wad needs to be fairly thick to withstand the pressure of the exploding powder without blowing through it and losing power. This thick wad is followed by a charge of lead shot. In my "beast" I use a couple of ounces of buckshot. If buckshot was unavailable in the old days, square lead shot could be easily cut from lead bars or thick sheets with a hammer and chisel. Another wad is then rammed on top of the shot to hold everything in place, but it does not need to be as thick as the first one. The piece is then primed, and left on half cock until ready to fire.

>>>>>> Cascabel

[Longarm]

Thanks Cascabel. By the way where did you get your beast if I might ask?

[MinRat]

Gravity does not take a day off! What goes up must come down! And it will come down at about the same speed that it went up. There is a simple equation for this, and the only thing slowing the object down is air resistance. If one shoots a gun of strait in to the sky the force the bullet coming down can still kill someone. I think most people were smart enough not to do this, but one would be surprised how many new recruits have not herd of Isaac Newton.

['Salem Bob']

New question. After looking at Casabels blunderbeast in the photo gallery I got to wondering how one went about loading one of these?  I now know to use the same amount of grains of powder as the gauge of the ball. 60 grains for 60 gauge, 50 for 50 ect... But how does one tell with a blunderbuss? How much powder is needed, how many balls do you load and how? Are they just put in one by one or are they packed in a bag , kind of like grapeshot? And what kind of wadding is used to keep everthing in place? The wadding question also applies to the pistols as well. If useing a paper cartridge does the paper then become the wadding after it's contents have been poured in?

You guys are right about finding the right group to learn from. I just met a guy a work who's brother was going to join a BP group, he say it ended up being a bunch of rednecks who didn't seem to care about safety. It seem they just wanted to run around making things go boom. Needless to say his brother got the hell out of there. Good on him.

To load a blunderbuss, First keep in mind that contrary to popular belief, you do NOT load it with rusty nails, broken glass, etc. Imagine, if you will, a nail getting jammed cross-wise in the bore with the rest of the load trying to get past it !!!!

To do it properly, you measure out the proper powder charge, which is about the same as that used in a similar caliber musket (not the large end of the barrel, but the size of the bore at the small end of the barrel). This is then followed by a thick wad of paper or unravelled rope, greased to prevent rust in the bore if left loaded and not to be fired immediately. (This acts as a sort of "piston" to push the entire load of shot out of the barrel). The wad needs to be fairly thick to withstand the pressure of the exploding powder without blowing through it and losing power. This thick wad is followed by a charge of lead shot. In my "beast" I use a couple of ounces of buckshot. If buckshot was unavailable in the old days, square lead shot could be easily cut from lead bars or thick sheets with a hammer and chisel. Another wad is then rammed on top of the shot to hold everything in place, but it does not need to be as thick as the first one. The piece is then primed, and left on half cock until ready to fire.

>>>>>> Cascabel

Just to add, a handful of ball of pistol caliber, or 'swanshot' were also used.

Many 'blunderbusses' began life as pyrotechnic launchers - you can tell the ones as they tended to have a chambered barrel. You will find blunderbuss barells extant that saw a good 100 or 150 years of sevice, with occasional re-locking, or re-stocking. :)

[Cascabel]

Thanks Cascabel. By the way where did you get your beast if I might ask?

Built 'er meself from parts from 'The Rifle Shoppe'

>>>> Cascabel

[Zorg]

Built 'er meself from parts from 'The Rifle Shoppe'

That place is a wonderful site if yr inta crafting your own piece. :)

[Cascabel]

Built 'er meself from parts from 'The Rifle Shoppe'

That place is a wonderful site if yr inta crafting your own piece. :)

Aye, they have wonderful things, but are unbelievably frustrating to deal with.

>>>>>>>> Cascabel