Naval Gun Carriage ?

[Littleneckhalfshell]

In another thread on the weight of naval gun carriages, Black John noted that around 1720 there was a transition from solid bed gun carriages to side cheek only carriages. Notably I have read that this was more prevalant among the english, and that the french and spanish held on to the solid bed carriage longer, but anyway, since GAOP is mostly prior to 1720, I wanted to see about putting together a 'solid bed gun carriage. Most of what I see out there are the english pattern post 1720, Round shot and Rammers has a nice drawing of this type carriage. Basically a solid bed carriage has a bottom board that the sides sit on. (example from the MaryRose, scroll to the bottom of this page for a picture of a solid bed gun carriage http://www.dimacleod.co.uk/history/ecwshots.htm) What I am not sure of from the pictures, is how the axle was positioned or designed. Anyone know a a drawing that shows the breakdown of the parts of a solid bed naval gun carriage? Or a book that shows it?

[Littleneckhalfshell]

sorry, the gun carriage picture is of the Wasa, not the MaryRose, I have been running through google looking for info till my eyes are sore, so one ship seems like another.

[Silver]

i haven't found any diagrams yet, but i did find this site concering early naval gunnery and tactics. it even talks about pirates. google sea-mans grammar and dictionary by john smith.

[Rusty Barrels]

I built a 2/3 scale 0f a 6 pounder based on Southbend Replica's catalog drawing, they also use that design on the Lady Washington.

[Rick Skinner]

Here links to pics I took of the cannon aboard the Susan Constant at the Jamestown settlement last easter. Hope they help.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/rc...ce/IMG_1246.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/rc...ce/IMG_1253.jpg

[Littleneckhalfshell]

Yeah, Rusty Barrels, the Southbend Replicas catalog picture that I looked at online shows the side cheek english pattern construction that only became popular starting at 1720, you can identify it by the 'curved' area between the trucks. What I am looking for is what CaptSkinner provided in his two photos taken aboard the Susan Constant at Jamestown. Thank you CaptSkinner, those pictures should help a lot. Now if I can just come up with a cutting template. I have some Big Red Oak that I chainsawed into slabs a number of years ago and I think they will work for the three large pieces of wood I will need. (english and american tended to use 'built up' cheeks mortised together, but the earlier spanish and french patterns I believe used a single solid piece for the cheeks and bottom bed.

Thanks again CaptSkinner.

[Rick Skinner]

Found interesting pics of Vasa cannon. Vasa cannon They are about 3/4 of the way down the page.

What is interesting is that the carriages do not appear to be made from solid pieces of wood. My guess is that the carriages are reconstructions.

Another reference is here A 17th CENTURY GUN AND CARRIAGE from the La Belle. The model is based on those found on the La Belle wreck.

[Cascabel]

If you are going to build a carriage, it must be kept in mind during the planning stages that the "steps" in the carriage need to be located properly. They are not for decorative purposes.

They are located where the bolts that hold the rear axle in place need to seat, and where they can act as fulcrum points for using handspikes for lifting the barrel to adjust elevation. The locations can vary a bit depending on barrel configuration, as you need to be able to get the ends of the handspikes under the barrel in order to lift it. On a full size cannon, this is an important issue because of the weight. On a large carriage, additional re-inforcing bolts also will need a spot to seat. Most original carriages I have seen use bolts that go all the way through from top to bottom. The trunnion caps are held by full length bolts with the upper ends made to accomodate the caps. The front axle is usually secured by these bolts. No matter which "period" design you choose, it needs to consider the strength needed to stand the recoil forces.

>>>> Cascabel

[Desert Pyrate]

Those Vasa carriages are the real thing, early 17th century. The guns were recovered in a 1630s salvage, but not all the carriages could be saved.

The shiny look on them is characteristic of the polyethylene glycol treatment.

The iron on them is (most likely) a repro. I can't remember off hand, but almost no iron survived. I'm about 97% sure on that.

[Capt Thighbiter]

Littleneck,

PM for the size bolts ye needs, I might, just might have them.

Cascable,

True, you're coming up for the L.I. Pirate Festival?

[Cascabel]

Cascable,

True, you're coming up for the L.I. Pirate Festival?

Aye, Shipmate. I'll be thar. Lookin' forward to seein' ye again....

>>>> Cascabel

[Black Hearted Pearl]

I don't know if this image will come out, but I thought some of you might find it useful.

This carriage is made of Poplar as there wasn't time to make it out of quality Oak. I have other pictures, but there are people in the way.

[Littleneckhalfshell]

thanks for the picture, but it unfortunately is of the English Pattern 1720 and later, It is the kind of gun carriage you usually see, but from what information I can find, it is not correct for the earlier GAOP era.

For GAOP, especially if it were a captured spanish or french gun, there should be a solid base of wood beneath the side cheeks. (see the other pictures posted for the difference) On the 1720 and later English pattern, they dispense with the base and only support the gun tube with the side pieces and some strategically positioned cross pieces, plus the axles instead of the base plate.