Pirate Crew Activities

[capnwilliam]

We're new to the pirate scene but have been fairly active in the SCA for a few years.

Generally speaking, the overall SCA reaction to anything nautical is cool. (I mean that in the sense of "not enthusiastic").

But the great thing about the SCA is the number of activities it has. Hell, you can fight rapier, fight heavy weapons, make garb, brew, cook, make armour, throw axes, shoot bows (at targets and at people: using padded arrows, of course!).

There's even a bit o' black powder usage, though the Society tends to be anti-gun: probably has less to do with contemporary anti-gun bias than with a misguided view of period warfare.

I'm curious as to how many pirate crews engage in swordfighting, archery, black powder shooting (small arms or cannon), etc. I don't mean Ren Faire style fighting with live steel and choregraphed moves, but extemporaneous fencing with safe, period-style weaponry.

Also, how many crews engage in actual sailing?

Capt. William

[PirateQueen]

I know several members of the Port Royal Privateers (the club I'm in) are into blackpowder firearms and small cannon. We also number a few swordsmen and swordswomen among our members. And we do participate in tall ship sails along the Southern California coast, but not on a regular basis.

A favorite for us is the annual Tall Ships Festival in Dana Point, where many of our members enjoy sailing on the ships in costume all weekend.

Many of our members also enjoy the annual reenactment of the pirate raid on the Mission San Juan Capistrano: all the firearms, cannon and steel come out, along with pyrotechnics and "true to life" gory blood packs courtesy of our member pyrotechnician, Juan de la Kaboom (Jon Rose).

[Rumrunner-of-the-SpanishMain]

Somewhere on this bulletin board someone posted about their group being a pirate group into black powder. I can't seem to find it now. Would like to talk to them. I think they said something like they've got 4 cannons between them. Where the heck can you go firing off a cannon other than at one of these tall ships festivals?

[Capt. Flint]

Rumrunner.... There are in fact a lot of places ( depending on what state you live in ) where you can fire a cannon. Although I am quite certain that the police would put a quick end to it, in M.D. it is legal to fire a cannon in your own yard so long as the projectile does not leave your property. On a realistic view, there are various military forts and bases where cannon fireing events are held. There is a lot of competition and it is a lot of fun. I suggest you try to contact your local community events listings and see if any of these are going to be held in your area. Also , if you ask people who own cannons, they can tell you where and when there will be such an event. Hope this helps..... THe Capt.

[redhand]

Cap'n William

That's the kind of living history & reenacting that our club is

interested and has been doing for the last few years,

overall we've been doing living history & reenacting for close

to 20 years.

We pratice progressive or campaign style living history of

Revolutionary war units, as well as early maritime sailors,

longhunters, and even some old west gunfighter stuff.

We're interested in starting up a pirate group dedicated

to period firelock shooting, engaging in sword fighting,

both stage and fencing, as well as portraying what real pirates

and even pirate hunters looked and acted like during the 1690

to 1730 period. We're even interested in doing a little "hollywood"

pirates stuff merely for laughs. We've dubbed our sloop the "Harlot"

and are working at putting together our kits, we're also looking for

a few interested men or women to join us here in oregon.

Cheers!

Redhand

[captweaver65]

I followed Captain Luigi's homepage link from his profile and it looks like they have a right foul and respectable crew. the website was a lot o fun too-great opening animation,although the music comes on a bit to loud for those of us who hit the grog a little much the night before.

www.westcoastmutineers.com

[capnwilliam]

Rumrunner, a good source to learn about black powder cannon - even though their technology is a bit OOP for pirate groups - is a Civil War reenactment group. Here in the New Orleans area we have the Washington Artillery, some members of which have been trying to recruit me, which I've resisted, largely because I belong to too many things already!

Even better, of course, would be an American Revolution or War of 1812 group, because there you're dealing with pirate-era cannon (linstocks, etc.)

Best of all would of course be to hook up with a pirate group that does cannon.

There are a surprising number of places that allow black powder cannon firing, WITHOUT projectiles, of course. In downtown New Orleans the Washington Artillerry fires a few rounds every years for Jackson- Lee Day.

Projectile firing is almost never done, anywhere. One exception is a Civil War umbrella group called the North - South Skirmish Association, which engages in actual target shooting competition using period rifles, muskets, carbines, pistols, and cannon. But almost always when BP cannon is fired, it's just for the sound and the flash.

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

Faire windes to ye and yer pirate venture, Redhand; ye sound like a dedicated yet fun-loving crew of history buffs.

Beluche, who just joined this list, is looking to build a pirate crew for the New Orleans area.

Capt. William

[Jamaica Rose]

Projectile firing is almost never done, anywhere.  <snip>

But almost always when BP cannon is fired, it's just for the sound and the flash.

Cap'n William is right for the most part. Cannons are usually fired blank - no ammo.

But on one trip on the "Lady Washington", in consort with the "Hawaiian Chieftain" from Marina del Rey to Catalina Island - they set a 4'x4'x4' plywood box afloat (the Zodiac actually took it out aways from the ships). Then each ship started firing at it. Most of the shots missed. But, I did learn that cannonballs will skip over the water's surface, like skipping rocks on a lake. Most skipped at least nine times until they were out of sight or else finally plunged into the water.

When they ran out of cannonballs, they brought up the frozen SPAM. They had molded Spam to the right caliber for the cannon, wrapped it in foil and froze it. This led to many jokes. But I figured this was more environmentally friendly than dropping a bunch of iron balls into the ocean.

Eventually the box was retrieved, and found that it was only hit once with a cannonball. It left a clean hole, about 3 inches, in one side, out the other. From the angle of the hole, they thought it had been hit after the ball skipped once on the water, and was on the upward angle (I've heard that naval cannoneers often tried to do this on purpose if they wanted to sink a ship). There were also several small holes from the muskets that had been trained on the box.

You can find gun ranges that allow blackpowder, and even cannons. We know of some here in S. Calif.

So, if you'd like to target practice with yer cannon, it is possible.

Blackheartedly yrs,

--Jamaica Rose

"There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of black powder."

[capnwilliam]

THAT must have been a sight to behold, Jamaica: for-real target practice aboard a ship with black powder cannon!

Funny that you mention "skipping" the cannonball across the water. Off the coast of Mississippi there's a place called Ship Island, with an old fort. The National Park Service guide wnen I was there said that such was the common practice in shore-to-ship attacks; the balls traveled a much greater distance that way, and struck the ship at the waterline, which would of course sink it much quicker and more effectively than would be the case otherwise.

Capt. William

"The fight's never over while there's a shot in the locker"

[Captain Luigi]

Captweaver,

Glade you got to check out da site. You are right 'bout da music. Gonna talk to theweb master 'bout dat. We will be posting our black powder saftey course on it soon too.

[captweaver65]

black powder safety course???now really,dont ya think we have too many fingers as it is? besides,whats a good pirate crew without at least one hook hand? hehehe

[Rumrunner-of-the-SpanishMain]

Jamaica and Capt. William, so the cannonball is just rolling along the water surface? it seems if it is rolling along it would not be very effective once it hit. I must obviously be wrong but I am having a hard time picturing it doing the damage. Would be interested in contacting some black powder groups here in So. Calif. if there are any to hook up with. :)

[Jamaica Rose]

Jamaica and Capt. William, so the cannonball is just rolling along the water surface? it seems if it is rolling along it would not be very effective once it hit. I must obviously be wrong but I am having a hard time picturing it doing the damage.

The cannonball doesn't roll on the water surface. It skips -- actually bounces off the surface of the water. If you've ever seen rocks skipped on the surface of a lake, it's the same thing -- only the cannonball bounced a lot higher.

--Jamaica Rose

[capnwilliam]

Yes, and you have to consider the velocity involved. Consider an ordinary pistol bullet. If you threw it at someone it might sting or raise a bump; but push it to the 700 - 1500 feet per second velocities attainable out of a pistol barrel and it's a whole 'nother ball game.

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

We just got back from Contraband Days; a silly event, but fun! They had 5 cannon there; none of them full-scale. But they sure did cut loose with the noise, flames, smoke, and burning wadding!

[capnwilliam]

And speaking of cannon...we sure saw plenty in St, Augustine! Authentic pieces hundreds of years old, just all over the place, in parks and government buildings. (Didn't witness any cannon being fired, though)...

Capt. William

[Captain Luigi]

Speakin of cannons...back at this last P.I.P. fest I had to scuba dive to recover two lost cannons that fell into the water.

[capnwilliam]

Authentic old pieces, were these cannon?

Capt. William

[Commander Ullrich]

Jamaica and Capt. William, so the cannonball is just rolling along the water surface?  it seems if it is rolling along it would not be very effective once it hit.  I must obviously be wrong but I am having a hard time picturing it doing the damage.  Would be interested in contacting some black powder groups here in So. Calif. if there are any to hook up with. :)

Well now Rum Lass,

First of all, this is black powder, which is "low and slow" burn, not a high powered explosiion, so no high velocity, armor piercing rounds, just round balls. So there is no significant loss in velocity. Secondly, since the ball is round (assuming ist was made right to begin with,and free of rust) no matter which side of a perfect sphere hits the water (assuming seas not too rough) then it will ricochet in a straight line towards it's target, and you gain about 20% on your range.

Now the U S army statistics of the 1850s tell us that a long 32 pounder has an affective range of 1.25 miles. BUT! Affective range is defined as hitting the target 50% of the time or better. So please remember that your actual combat range is MUCH closer to begin with, and adding 20% to your range is not adding onto that 1.25 miles, but rather much less, because of this.

Secondly, those are ARMY statistics that I am sighting. The Navy basically threw the book overboard. Why? The army was firing from a STATIONARY platform, at a STATIONARY target. In the navy, you are firing from a moving platform because the deck of a ship is pitching and rolling AND it is also under way, and usually your target is another ship that is also under way. Finally, your captain ( if he isn't a total boob) is attempting to sail in such a way to deny his opponent a target, when getting the best angle to fire upon the enemy, who is doing exactly the same thing to him. This requires knowledge of his ship, crew, winds, weather and local tides.

So, firing cannon may be fun, but it's half the battle. If your captain can't pilot the ship (and/or the crew can't sail it, despite his knowledge and skill) into aposition for the gun crews to fire in the first place, because they are being out sailed, who cares how fast and accurate these gun crews are, or the efficiency of their guns?

Did I babble enough?

Too much?

Commander Ullrich, Rumskull PIcaroons, Colonial Tory Privateers

AKA Mr Ullrich, Master-At-Arms, USS Constellation Museum

[capnwilliam]

You babble just the right amount, sez I!

Do the Picaroons use cannon in their reenactments?

Capt. William

[Commander Ullrich]

You babble just the right amount, sez I!

Do the Picaroons use cannon in their reenactments?

Capt. William

Capt. William,

The picaroons do not use cannon. Only because we have none... yet. We work extensively with black powder firearms, primarily long rifles, muskets and pistols. Most recently at Morehead.

Some of our members used to work with the N.P.S. at Ft McHenry (1814) and were certified in that manner. I am certified due to my need to fire the 20 pound Parrot Rifled Gun at least once a day at work, aboard the USS Constellation (last all sail vessel of the US Navy-Last Civil WAr Vessel STILL Afloat) USS Constellation.org. (and recently, home to the Go-Go Pirate Show (yep, white Go-Go Boot dancing pirates doing Treasure Island, followed by burlesque dancers and can-can dancer. (But I digress)

We are searching for one or two swivels, for the encampment. Any leads on reasonably priced, WORKING svivels graciously accepted.

[Capt. Flint]

Commander Ullrich... You can get swivel guns at Dixie gun works for a very reasonable price.. I believe around $250 each plus shipping. Hope that helps.... The Capt.

[capnwilliam]

Sounds like a great way to earn a living, Commander Ullrich....firing a black powder cannon; and go-go dancers to boot (another bad unintentional pun!)

Here in New Orleans we have a Battle of New Orleans (1815) reenactment where they fire cannon of that period. A Baratarian contingent does much of the artillery work. We're planning to get involved with same, as soon as we can get our kit together.

Capt. William

[the Royaliste]

On a similar note, I've been swappin' powder with both vessels this summer, and I favor recycling 'D' batteries in my cannons. They travel and punch thru waves much better than round balls, although an occaisional large ball bearing is hard to beat, but they travel over a mile...little sloops out a ways are in danger! Might make Dana Point this year, mebbee not. Such is the life of a pirate.