Kate Souris Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Tight running stitch, just like my other set of stays. :)
Silkie McDonough Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Are ye agreeing with me or admitting ye are one as well? :angry: Ever in agreement dear John ...except where women are concerned. Edited January 8, 2009 by Silkie McDonough
Capt. Sterling Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Tight running stitch, just like my other set of stays. :) Thanks...good to know. "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
michaelsbagley Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Not having ever examined an actual period set I've only been able to zoom in on what online pics of stays I have been able to find... It's not too easy to tell, but judging from the V&A stays and a later period (1750) set, it looks as if the stitching on both of those was a tight running stitch. On a more practical note, I do backstitching on the arms of my sleeved waistcoats and outer coats (for extra strength), and I find backstitching to have a bit more bulk than regular running stitch, which just doesn't seem right for boning channels. Have you seen or heard something that indicates that boning channels should be backstitched? I'd hate to have put all that work into the first set, and have Kate put all that work into the second set for it to be incorrect on such a small detail. Edited January 8, 2009 by michaelsbagley
Capt. Sterling Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Corsets and Crinolines (Norah Waugh) states that during the 18th century "When it is remembered that all the stitching was back stitched done by hand...." but I'm not sure from the passage if she means all 18th century stays or only the mid 18th century... She doesn't mention any other type of stitching elsewhere in the 17th/18th century area... I can check with Lara Greene, a gem of knowledge and expertise regarding corsets (even the Met comes to her with questions) and Williamsburg. I will also post a close up of the Pink Stays, this looks to be backstitched... give me a moment, scanner is being a putz "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
michaelsbagley Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Corsets and Crinolines (Norah Waugh) states that during the 18th century "When it is remembered that all the stitching was back stitched done by hand...." but I'm not sure from the passage if she means all 18th century stays or only the mid 18th century... That's curious. It was difficult to tell whether the V&A stays were back stitched or not, but it did not seem so. The 1750s set of stays, the image was more than quite clear enough to see that the stitching was definately a running stitch and not a backstitch... Unless my perception of what a backstitch looks like is horribly wrong. I think this may be an example of a noted expert making a generalized statement about sewing, that has too many exceptions to be a truism.
Capt. Sterling Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) and email is off to Lara... need to find my Williamsburg contact info... I need a secretary... ack...IF NOT I will be driving down there to find out... Oh you know who else we could contact, Burnley andTrowbridge....they used to give quite the seminar on corsetry...and I see they are selling men's slippers... cool Edited January 8, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
LadyBarbossa Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Most images I've seen look like a running stitch with strong linen thread. At least for the boning slats. I admit, I cheat with my stays and use a machine. I dare not allow folks really to see my undergarments. Tis not ladylike. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous!
CrazyCholeBlack Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Michael & Jessica- You're going to hate me for offering tips after the fact, but I will in case it helps anyone else To make adding the reed (or any boning) easier, stitch it directly into the channels. Sew one side of the channel, butt the boning up to the stitch line, pin in place as needed, stitch the 2nd line directly next to the boning. This gets it in nice & snug despite any variations in the boning itself. This can also be done on the sewing machine but is a little harder to do (a zipper foot helps). Wait to cut the fingers (aka tabs) until after the channels are sewn. This way you don't end up with too few or too many channels in each finger. It also avoids having the outer material shift around as you're sewing & ending up out of alignment with the inner-linings. That happens to be a minor pet peeve of mine when making stays. You can also wait to trim the top edge until after sewing the channels to avoid this same out of place shifting. Just don't forget to mark out the final shape of the piece so you know where to start & stop. The method I learned for attaching the panels is to fold your outer & inner-linings to the inside along the last channel line, match sections right side to right side & whip stitch together. The final whip stitch creates the last side on both channels of each connected piece. Very nice work so far. How does the cut of this pair differ from the previous pair? Chole "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog
LadyBrower Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 LadyBrower, I know the pattern of which you speak. My twin sister made them and I know that Mary Diamond also made them for herself. I have worn them, yet my sister did not use cane, she used poly-boning and I highly suggest cane/reed instead. I'm glad someone else has used the pattern... But I think I am going to buy the one from reconstructing history. But Ugh, I used spiral steel... and never will again. I used to civil war reenact and the favored boning was the steel... I may rip it all out and replace it with reed... which seems to be MUCH less expensive per foot than steel, and from what I've read so far, just better in general. This is definitely a learning experience... If you have reenacted before and done corsetry prior, I would HIGHLY recommend Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines book and use the corset pattern from that instead... Lady Brower ~ I did indeed use the pattern you mention, with the horizontal boning. I didn't like the way it sat when finished, as it creased immediately under my breasts, not giving the proper form for our period. I have since made several others, my favorite being from Waugh, as mentioned by Captain Sterling above. One of the easiest to work with, and period correct to boot. Oh Bugga. I have completed my stays save for the last few eyelets in the back... I could not stand not to try them on and oh what should happen? First and foremost, I managed to loose enough weight last week so that have become just too big, and I don't like them on. I agree, I don't like the horizontal boning. *sigh* all that work! I have been coveting that book, Corsets and Crinolines for some time, so I suppose I simply must purchase it now... Ms. Chole, I thank you for the tips because I will be started all over again tomorrow! I have read about sewing seems in a similar fashion, and I really like it. Does it make the seam very stiff? Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
Capt. Sterling Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Lara's reply, the 18th century corsets that she has worked with are all back stitched... she says a regular machine stitch will give the same look or do a regular back stitch by hand. Still I agree with you Mickey... there always seems to be an exception to the "rule" some where....eventually someone finds it... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
michaelsbagley Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Michael & Jessica- You're going to hate me for offering tips after the fact, but I will in case it helps anyone else I'll never hate anyone for good advice regardless of the timing! To make adding the reed (or any boning) easier, stitch it directly into the channels. Sew one side of the channel, butt the boning up to the stitch line, pin in place as needed, stitch the 2nd line directly next to the boning. This gets it in nice & snug despite any variations in the boning itself. This can also be done on the sewing machine but is a little harder to do (a zipper foot helps).Wait to cut the fingers (aka tabs) until after the channels are sewn. This way you don't end up with too few or too many channels in each finger. It also avoids having the outer material shift around as you're sewing & ending up out of alignment with the inner-linings. That happens to be a minor pet peeve of mine when making stays. You can also wait to trim the top edge until after sewing the channels to avoid this same out of place shifting. Just don't forget to mark out the final shape of the piece so you know where to start & stop. That's interesting, I would have never thought of that, as I find it is easier to handle and manipulate the fabric while sewing without the boning channels, but it is something I will take into consideration next time I do a boned item... which should be soon as a bodiced gown is high on the project list. The method I learned for attaching the panels is to fold your outer & inner-linings to the inside along the last channel line, match sections right side to right side & whip stitch together. The final whip stitch creates the last side on both channels of each connected piece.Very nice work so far. How does the cut of this pair differ from the previous pair? Chole On her first set of stays we backstitched the panels together, and then whip stitched them in the inside for extra strength, I think she might be considering doing the same for this set. The main difference in the construction is mostly the pattern we used. It's more of a custom pattern than the first set. We used the "out of the box" RH pattern the first time (minus some personal fitting), but this time, we started from scratch, and combined favourite elements from a few differenct sources. With the Custom Corset (stays!) generator being the core. I think the most noticable difference is I think we (I mean "I") fit the arm opennings a little incorrectly the first time... Cut too much down (or perhaps didn't add enough) to the arm pit area, so the sides sit too low. This pair is much better fitted under the arm. The other big difference is the style of straps, we (and here I mean "she") went with a solid strap rather than one that was attached at one end and ribboned on the other end. Edited January 8, 2009 by michaelsbagley
michaelsbagley Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Here's a pattern to start with (dated to 1715)... One could use the corset (stays!) pattern generator to get the sizing, and then transfer the details and cut of these stays onto the custom generated pattern...
michaelsbagley Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 And another one... These are all from the costumer's manifesto web site... And some examples of stays and how they were decorated...
Capt. Sterling Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 And some examples of stays and how they were decorated... Stays Mickey or the stomachers pinned over em? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Capt. Sterling Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Thanks, just curious... I can never get those pictures to translate well... I greatly appreciate it when Mickey does the translating... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
LadyBrower Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Oh yey! I'm so excited... I ordered reed today, and Corsets and Crinolines I am so very excited!!!! Many thanks to you all, I cannot believe how kind and helpful everyone is. Makes me a wee bit weepy... *blink, blink* Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle
michaelsbagley Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 And some examples of stays and how they were decorated... Stays Mickey or the stomachers pinned over em? Stays were decorated with Stomachers.... But who wants to debate semantics..
Capt. Sterling Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Touche` point to the man in the red coat! Edited January 9, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
LadyBarbossa Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Aye, I've read a couple places where some stays were decorated (embroidered or whatever) and used as stomachers, too. I found that odd, but some pieces actually do give reason for that. Depends upon the style and the decade, aye? Oh, and the boning issue. I've seen some with a variety o f ways of boning slats. Some fully boned with various directions but generally universal, some partially boned.. the one that gets me, is the horizontal boning at the bust. Reason for that? Is that more for women with nothing there to give the illusion they have something? Or for better support for the women with too much of something? ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous!
Kate Souris Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I got the straps attached the other night.... And....I am to the ironing edge binding stage. It goes slower than snail snot....but its a great for finishing.
Capt. Sterling Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Oh but snails actually sneeze very fast.... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/
Cheeky Actress Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 And....I am to the ironing edge binding stage. It goes slower than snail snot....but its a great for finishing. Boy...I've missed a lot going on in the thread...okay, same colour binding, Kate or constrasting? Member of "The Forsaken"
Kate Souris Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Same color. Keeping it simple. Though we just ordered the silk ribbon card from RH...so that I can match ribbon to lace these bad boys up on.
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