Graydog Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The following only applies to events in California and specifically the State Park System. If you do not live in California, please excuse this posting. All forms of “combat” pending banning from California State Park System. This has not been implemented yet, but its in the final stages of staffing prior to implementation. State Parks Proposed Guidelines for the Use of Historic Weapons Policy, October 3, 2007 “Reproduction Black Powder Firearms and Edged Weapons use in California State Parks” Main Points 1. Battle reenactments and/or demonstrations of battle tactics that involve firing at opposing lines, taking of casualties, or any form of simulated warfare are absolutely prohibited in all areas administered by California State Parks. The rest of the “guidelines” almost become superfluous after point one, however, they are listed at the bottom of this note. These proposed guidelines (which have the effect of regulations but by-pass all the legal open hearing requirements because they are policy, not regulations) only apply at State Parks, if this policy will impact your local event will really depended on whether that event is on state property as opposed to county, city, or private property. The odd observation is that these are normally “cash cow” events for the state and they will take a revenue loss as a result of this policy. Off the top of my head- this effectively kills the 40 year old Fort Tejon Civil War Program and the several year old San Pasqual Mexican American War Program to name just two (2) locations. If you object to the policy, or object that regulations are being proposed that by-pass the open hearing requirements under the name “policy”, you can contact either the governor’s office or your state representative. If you don’t care about this proposed policy, you may want to read item 6 below. That item while speaking to weapons initially could be used as a pretext to prevent pirate events at any of the State Parks that does not have a “pirate” theme. Here’s the rest of the policy: 2. All staff, volunteers, and special event participants who have access to, or possess a firearm or ammunition on department property must be prescreened for any convictions specified in the state's gun control statutes. 3. Use only reproduction black powder firearms and edged weapons in interpretive demonstrations in California State Parks 4. Undertake all uses of reproduction historic weapons in parks with a major focus on visitor, demonstrator, and employee safety. Physical barriers must be used to keep visitors at safe distances. Demonstrators will wear both safety glasses and hearing protection. 5. Individuals performing black powder firearms demonstrations in State Parks may wear period-appropriate attire or protective modern clothing. 6. All black powder and edged weapons used in demonstrations will be consistent and appropriate to the interpretive theme and interpretive period(s) of the park unit. 7. Prior to performing any demonstrations within State Parks, all employees and volunteers of the department will be trained in the safe use of reproduction black powder firearms and edged weapons. 8. Inspect all reproduction black powder firearms and edged weapons used in demonstrations annually. 9. Maintain all reproduction black powder firearms and edged weapons in a safe, clean, and rust-free condition. 10. Black powder storage, handling, and transportation will conform to the State Fire Marshall and Department of Transportation regulations. 11. Check all reproduction black powder firearms to ensure weapons are unloaded and that no projectiles are in evidence prior to use in State Parks. Use only blank ammunition in firing demonstrations. 12. No person under 18 years of age, while in possession of firearms, shall fire, or be in possession of, black powder. 13. No person shall use or handle explosives (e.g., black powder, percussion caps. Or fuses) while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. 14. Use of reproduction black powder firearms or edged weapons shall no affect any Cultural or natural resources negatively. 15. Consult local zoning codes and authorities before designating demonstration ranges in state parks. 16. Keep accurate records of black powder use and transactions. 17. Follow all department requirements for safely loading, unloading, and preparing powder charges, as outlined in the Guidelines for the Use of Historic Weapons and provided in training and certification programs. 18. All Department-certified Historic Weapons Lead Persons and Inspectors shall attend a Department- approved certification program every four years. 19. Report all accidents involving the use of black powder and edged weapons to the District Superintendent. A Historic Weapons Accident Notification and Review report shall be completed. 20. Each district will maintain an inventory of its reproduction black powder firearms and provide a copy of the inventory to the Public Safety Division in Headquarters. 21. All non-state owned black powder or cartridge weapons transported on California State Park property for use by park staff, volunteers or special event presenters, will be registered within the first thirty minutes upon arrival to the site. 22. Visitors may handle and unloaded weapon, providing the demonstrator maintains control with one hand. 23. Expose edged weapons only under controlled conditions. Visitors will NOT handle edged weapons. 24. If misfires occur, the standard misfire procedures drill will be followed. 25. Use only sporting grade black powder in interpretive demonstrations. California State Parks will not accept responsibility of any non-government owned weapons or equipment. Any violation of these policies or standards by the individual or group shall result in immediate removal of the individual or group from further weapons firing demonstrations in the park. Where did I get this information? From a State Park Employee that runs one of the volunteer programs. -Greydog Why am I sharing my opinion? Because I am a special snowflake who has an opinion of such import that it must be shared and because people really care what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hmmmm... Kalifornia, a happy place! Lets hope Arnold is a history buff and nixes the thing outright... This country is way overdue for a revolution... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Handed Jill Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 This is why I'm glad the black powder rendezvous I go to are on private land! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Will that affect all the bangs and booms at Ojai? I can't remember if that is a state or county park. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's sad to think that it has come to something like this... If California agrees to this ‘plan of action’…who knows which State will fall behind them….the general rule of thumb is New York and Florida…the Wisconsin… Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graydog Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 Will that affect all the bangs and booms at Ojai? I can't remember if that is a state or county park. Ojai is a water district and it does not fall under control of the State Park System. Information on Ojai (Lake Casitas Recreation Area) Why am I sharing my opinion? Because I am a special snowflake who has an opinion of such import that it must be shared and because people really care what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's sad to think that it has come to something like this...If California agrees to this ‘plan of action’…who knows which State will fall behind them….the general rule of thumb is New York and Florida…the Wisconsin… Wow! Glad I didn't stay there for long. Florida is unlikely to do any such nonsense. We're a firearm lovin' state. The legislature recently passed a bill to allow us all to pack heat and waste anyone who makes us feel threatened, regardless of place. Can even be on a sidewalk. Worked most recently when a pimp tried to rob a john and the john shot him point blank. And my local powder seller looked dismayed when I only need four pounds for PiP. Doubt the anti-gun lobby will ever have an ear to bend here. Thankfully. I am sorry for all the responsible folks there who use their weapons correctly and care about demonstrating history there. Another sad day for over regulation by governments who listen to the vocal minority if it comes to pass. -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 As far as I know, all the Ren-faires here in S. Calif. are held at county parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Handed Jill Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Yeah - same with the Central and Northern California ones. So all this might be a moot point - unless some yahoos did some really stupid things in state parks with their weaponry. That's why these laws happen: to save morons - and the rest of us - from their stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Hate to say it but Cheeky has a very valid point... time for you Californians to stand up and squash this action... and quickly.... don't allow a precedent to start up.... wonder how much Arnold kowtows to his wife's side of the family... Although state parks have been known in the past to always have a thing against reenactors and battles.... I remember we could not show anyone taking a hit during the 200th anny of the Surrender at Yorktown... I believe Saratoga was the same as well.... but at least we could shoot at the opposing side then... I also remember, all too well, the spectators grousing "what a stupid event! What stupid people... no one is dying..." "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I wish we had the conceal carry law here in Wisconsin... Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 If California agrees to this ‘plan of action’…who knows which State will fall behind them….the general rule of thumb is New York and Florida…then Wisconsin… Florida is unlikely to do any such nonsense. We're a firearm lovin' state. The legislature recently passed a bill to allow us all to pack heat and waste anyone who makes us feel threatened, regardless of place. Well, We are quite to gun loving state here in Wisconsin! We are right in the middle of our hunting season and our tourist dollars have always weighed heavy on people coming in from MN, IL, IA, and MI to hunt. Yet, we have been trying to optain the conceal and carry law for some time now. I hope that it is just a matter of time until those fools (sorry...would love to use another name for those in Madison!) see the light. I would just hate to see what has happened in New York (Saratoga IS A GREAT example, Captain) happen in California. Let's hope that Arnold doesn't listen to his in-laws. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I wish we had the conceal carry law here in Wisconsin... move to VA "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cat Jenny Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Huh Well...I have been to an event where the biggest draw was the swordplay and the blackpowder display. Loud and shiny are always a draw. This is a shame. Yet "someone" just vetoed a bill for educational and healthcare funds and approved more bucks for the Pentagon's non defense spending.. hmm Hey who needs to be healthy and educated? Or attend historical events... Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.... Her reputation was her livelihood. I'm a pirate, love. By nature and by choice! My inner voice sometimes has an accent! My wont? A delicious rip in time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oderlesseye Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 So anyplace where a Ranger works at in Calf. is a place where the ban will likley most apply? Is felicita Park ( Escondito Ren Faire) under State juristicion? I saw persons working there in green but was not sure ifen they were Rangers. Freedom in America.... http://www.myspace.com/oderlesseyehttp://www.facebook....esseye?ref=nameHangin at Execution dock awaits. May yer Life be a long and joyous adventure in gettin there!As he was about to face the gallows there, the pirate is said to have tossed a sheaf of papers into the crowd, taunting his audience with these final words: "My treasure to he who can understand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 1. Battle reenactments and/or demonstrations of battle tactics that involve firing at opposing lines, taking of casualties, or any form of simulated warfare are absolutely prohibited in all areas administered by California State Parks. Drat... so now we can't show the spirited waterballon fight that happened and won the Bear Flag Revolt...... ? So much for our glorious State's history.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigi Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I must be a legal idiot. Can someone explain why point number one states that warfare reenactment is strictly prohibited, but points 2-25 seem to apply guidelines on HOW state employees are to run a reenactment? And point twenty-one even includes volunteers and event presenters? It states one thing, then spends 24 points contradicting itself. Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 That's why we need a line item veto instead of getting rid of entire pieces.. "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 That's why we need a line item veto instead of getting rid of entire pieces Here! Here! Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 In response to Oderlesseye and others I again repeat: All the Ren-faires here in S. Calif. are held at COUNTY parks. In fact I don't know of any such events held at State parks simply for the very complicated rules that have to be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oderlesseye Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Thanx Rumba... I don't see a seal or docket number showing any officiallity.. California Council for the promotion of history California Council for the promotion of history has been sent an -E- mail to conform if this.. ain't just a hoax. http://www.myspace.com/oderlesseyehttp://www.facebook....esseye?ref=nameHangin at Execution dock awaits. May yer Life be a long and joyous adventure in gettin there!As he was about to face the gallows there, the pirate is said to have tossed a sheaf of papers into the crowd, taunting his audience with these final words: "My treasure to he who can understand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graydog Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 I don't see a seal or docket number showing any officiallity..California Council for the promotion of history California Council for the promotion of history has been sent an -E- mail to conform if this.. ain't just a hoax. Correct you will not. This is a proposed policy of the California State Park system that is in the process of being finalized. They have by-passed the State Park hearing system that a regulation would require, even though this is plainly a regulatory guidance. Since it is a pending policy it will not appear anywhere as a "bill". As this is not an adopted policy at this time it can still be blocked. However, even if adopted you will not find it in "law" as it is a policy of an operating department within state government. If you want offical confirmation of this item, you will have to contact the State Park Service Hq's in Sacramento or have somebody do that for you. Point of contacts on this item are in the State of California Parks Hq’s telephone numbers (916) 653-4643 (This is the person in charge of the State's interpetive history program) or (916) 324-0348 (if you get voice mail it answers as deferred maintenance, sounds odd but you're in the right place), this is the portion of the Park System that deals with Interpretive History and are responsible for this item. Please call them to verify this is no hoax or if you are against this item call and leave comment. You'll want to talk to them about- State Parks Proposed Guidelines for the Use of Historic Weapons Policy, October 3, 2007: “Reproduction Black Powder Firearms and Edged Weapons use in California State Parks” If you call, understand these are the sponsors of this pending policy. Please be polite. They state that it is preferred that you send in written comment rather than phone or E-mail: California State Parks Attn: Jonathan Williams 704 O Street Sacramento, CA 95814 They ask you to provide comments before December 15, 2007. It would be great if the folks you dashed the E-mail off to get involved. I doubt if they will know of this item, as it is not a bill before the legislature. The more people that complain, the less likely this will happen. Why am I sharing my opinion? Because I am a special snowflake who has an opinion of such import that it must be shared and because people really care what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Fiddle Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 My favorite line is: 7. Prior to performing any demonstrations within State Parks, all employees and volunteers of the department will be trained in the safe use of reproduction black powder firearms and edged weapons It isn't specified who is demonstrating, but the wording is open enough that no one can do anything until all employees and volunteers, including, one presumes, the people running concession stands, have been trained in guns and blades. Sorry, but the event can't go on, we don't have the budget to get Buffy and old man Farnsworth training for something they aren't involved in. Sounds like a set of rules laid out by someone bent and determined to create obstructions and roadblocks. Your most and obliged humble servant, William Dezoma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Looks like they lack a good "Technical Writer"! Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graydog Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 Looks like they lack a good "Technical Writer"! What they lack is a plank to be a walkin! P.S. Joking aside, thank all of you that have sent letters in support. Why am I sharing my opinion? Because I am a special snowflake who has an opinion of such import that it must be shared and because people really care what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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