Ship's Lanterns, Rush Candles, Frog Lanterns &c

[Ol Man From the Sea]

Damn you Blackjohn!

How am I gona read all these books from the library that will almost tell me what I need to know, when you keep postin' links to thesesis that WILL tell me what I need to know. :angry:

Well, quess I'll just HAVE to do more plunderin' ta pay my overdo fees

(in other words Thanks)

[The Chapman]

Some thoughts on lanterns after looking through the PIP discussion.

Free standing or hand lanterns are probably different in style than actual ship's lanterns, which (?) tended to be fixed in place, although probably removable. I am eminently correctable.

Glass was a scarce and valuable commodity at the time and I wonder if it would have been a good idea to have glass panes in a handheld lantern, i.e. breakage, etc.

I suspect the key is in the word 'lanthorn'. Panes would likely have been cowhorn. Now, if you want to get all picky,the horn itself is processed relatively simply (by a craftsman known as, what else, a 'horner'): soaking in water for a few weeks, boiled for until soft(er), and then peeled like the rind of an onion. If you're in a rush or a hack, you can boil the horn quickly in ash, but I suspect the reason this technique was not universally used is the rapid heat would, in my opinion, render the product brittle in the end.

The pieces would be selected into darker and lighter depending on use, obviously the lightest panels being chosen for lanthorn lights.

Pieces could be cut into squares and flattened between two heated metal plates (iron?), or easier, and which leads me to believe a lot of lanthorns were cylindrical in shape, left curved and set into wood muntins in a hardwood... uhh... body? What's the name for that? Anyone?

Anyway, a typical shape for a cheapie quick and cool type lantern would be two wood circles with wood posts attaching them, a spike inset for a candle, and thinly peeled cowhorn of the lighter type cut and inset in lieu of glass.

Actually, I think I'll add that to the projects list; it sounds like fun.

[Salty]

ok glass out

cowhorn in

any thoughts on sheets of mica?

and if this has been posted and i missed it i apologize now

on the lighter side and in good fun as it can be to go thud and swear in the dark......how did they manage to cover the light when they choose to or is that a seperate piece of material. was it even a consideration ?

[Ol Man From the Sea]

Following Blackjohn's linky linky, I mean reading the paper Blackjohn suggested. It looks like the short answer, as posted by William Red Wake, is

Thank you Blackjohn and William!

The paper raised an other question, It talked about canvas fire buckets on ships in 1650? Can this be trusted? Is there a second source to back this up?

[Salty]

bloody "ell thanks fer pointing out the link ,ol man. will fynd what be correct as i read i gather. asked cause mica i have cow horn i do nae have ta see if i can get some.

[The Chapman]

I am not finding any information on the use of isinglass/mica/muscovite in lanthorn use of the period being discussed here. It's entirely possible it was used, I just can't find anything, and I've talked to some of our stove suppliers at my job who ought to know about isinglass. Horn appears to be the most 'authentic' material for lights (or, as spelled in the construction trade so as to differentiate from natural light, 'lite').

Boring trivia:

The above material is mined commercially in India, where a vertical shaft is cut; the 'mica' accessed; and the material is split into 'books', or sheets, some of which have been notated as larger than three feet (meter) square.

'Scrap' mica/isinglass is found in the Carolinas of the USA, where it is largely ground up and used for a glittery effect on wallpaper and such; larger chunks are used in the electrical industry as insulators.

For period authenticity if you're writing about Russians, apparently its most well-known use in the past was as windows in both Russian houses and in ships from that locale, hence the moniker 'Muscovite'.

Good Lord I'm boring. Well, that's what happens when you drive a truck all day.

Personal experience and observation about early artificial light:

In my own experience about ambient light, I've found that total darkness in nature is very rare, and for the most part the idea of total darkness is a man-made creation unless you are deep in a cave. If the eye is accustomed to ambient light, it's not unduly difficult to function normally in what most modern eyes would view as extremely dim lighting. When I was working for a utility in what I'll politely call a 'low-income' area, I was constantly wandering around in the basements of apartment buildings, the lighting of which had long since been stolen, destroyed, or disabled. You just stop for a minute, allow your eyes to get used to the dark, and almost always I could do what I needed to do without recourse to artificial light, i.e. my Maglite/bludgeon.

Well, actually I didn't like turning on the flashlight for two reasons. Firstly, if you turn it on then off, you are blind for a minute. Not good. Secondly, who knew what was in those basements? Turning on a light just seemed like announcing, "Here I am, please shoot me!"

As far as natural light at night, I once drove South to Cheyenne on Highway 85 from Torrington, Wyoming in the middle of the night. I went almost 60 miles without seeing an artificial light or another car. I had trouble outrunning my headlights, so I stopped, got out, walked around for while, and then turned the headlights off. There was no moon, and the starlight was so bright I had a clearly defined shadow; I drove easily by that light, and having not really had an experience like that previously, I was amazed at how bright natural 'darkness' really is. Also, a single artificial illumination, when I finally saw one, was visible for a distance of what I would estimate as more than a mile.

And, since in my childhood I lived in a house with no electricity, I learned about candles, lamps, etc. And chopping wood.

Stupid crazy hippie parents.

[MrSnailGrave]

just wondering what kind i can use or make im thinkin about makin this one

[Red Cat Jenny]

That one's nice!

You might want to check here

Lanterns

[MrSnailGrave]

thanks it helps

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

A very similar plan be available from Woodcraft magazine, Mar 05 issue. I'll be makin' a few fer me pirate fishpond dock.

Seems a good excuse ta play wi' stained glass too

[Captain Midnight]

Is there an on-line link to the back issue that has these lantern plans?

[Matty Bottles]

A very similar plan be available from Woodcraft magazine, Mar 05 issue. I'll be makin' a few fer me pirate fishpond dock.

Seems a good excuse ta play wi' stained glass too

Is it anything like this?

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

Is there an on-line link to the back issue that has these lantern plans?

There is, but it be a subscription site. www.woodcraftmagazine.com. The articles name was Illuminating History by Ken Weaver. Its a tad shorter than the one posted by Bloody Jack. It appears that most people are makin 'em to fit whatever glass they has available.

[Fayma Callahan]

The ones we got for Pirates in Paradise came from a company called the Maryland Sutler. They came in plain, unfinished and William Redwake and crew finished them at PiP. They came out beautifully, and the sutler (John) was very reasonable on price, even shipping some extra glass in case of breakage.

[Dutchman]

so anyone ever use one? the same guy that had the nav set on ebay also had a rush lantern- on a stiiiiiick- ( jeff dunham humor- sorry) anyhow. it was apparently used to light street lanterns or any thing high in the air. so has anyone used a rush candle or lantern. Looking at the few pictures i could find on line, they are an exposed flame. while i'm not wild about it exposed in a tent, has anyone ever put one in a lantern to see how it would do?

[michaelsbagley]

I haven't used this type of light for late period re-enacting.... But I have a lamp I forged for late Dark Age use.

It is open and without glass, so I never used it inside a tent, but I did use to light it and leave it a few paces from my tent (for safety) and it was sufficient light to find my way into my tent late at night. Remarkably enough, I have used both vegitable oils and bacon grease, and have found that the bacon grease gives the more steady light. I had to stop using it though as the bowl of the lamp is about 3 feet off the ground, and too often I was camping with groups that had small unruley children.

Hope this helps.

[oderlesseye]

Question is>>>> were these use ship board too ??

Edited July 5, 2011 by oderlesseye

[Silver]

has anyone ever seen what is known as a gunners dark lantern. used to keep the slow match lighted, i think?

[Dutchman]

i have heard of them, but not seen one. would it be similar to a grenadeers lantern? tinpunch i believe.

[Silver]

found a web site that had dark lanterns shown on it, but they are from the early 1900's. it states that a dark lantern is a lantern that is used for light but is fitted with a shading device that will allow you to cover the light (go dark) without blowing out the fire inside. so they are not for lighting slow matches. what would a gunner aboard a ship need this for?

[Silver]

the frog lamp looks like it would burn with an open flame?

[Cascabel]

Question is>>>> were these use ship board too ??

The picture shows what appears to be something to pour liquids from, yet the description sounds more like what is usually called a "Betty Lamp".

>>>>> Cascabel

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

FWIW I checked this site to see if it would turn up anything:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=739

I found nothing about "frog lamps" in any searches, other than modern lamps with frog motif.

I'd say that this museum/site needs to do more research. Germany wasn't even Germany in the 1500s-1700s, and why would anyone make a fancy highly decorated lamp to work in a mine? That's why we have to be careful about accepting the descriptions found in museum cases at face value. I don't doubt that it could be some kind of betty-lamp, but the rest of the information is suspect. I could be wrong, but my sentiment is this place has got the wrong information on this piece of equiptment.

Bo

[Jas. Hook]

found a web site that had dark lanterns shown on it, but they are from the early 1900's. it states that a dark lantern is a lantern that is used for light but is fitted with a shading device that will allow you to cover the light (go dark) without blowing out the fire inside. so they are not for lighting slow matches. what would a gunner aboard a ship need this for?

Dark lanterns I've read about were being used in small craft during cutting out raids against an enemy ships or positions. Used as a shielded or shuttered light source for signals, taking compass bearings, light fuses, etc. No MiniMag lights or Zippo lighters then.

Jas. Hook

[Silver]

the frog lantern- found a site where miner's lamps are shown this lamp is like what we call the tea pot lamp which is a oil burning lamp made in the 1860's for mining, the tea pot had a hook that allowed the lamp to be fastened on the front of the hat. as far a using oil and open flame for lighting aboard wooden sailing ships "fire hazzard" comes to mind. anyone got any doc. on prefered 17th century shipboard lighting? i vote for candles.