Female minimum garb standards

[Red Cat Jenny]

It would be wonderful I think for the newbs as well as those filling in the holes in their current knowledge, if you ladies and men in the know would post a series of images here as a well illustrated, color step by step guide. For example...

Pic 1

Here are stays (front , back, side)

Stays should be spiral laced from what I have read.

Here is what stays are laced with..and how far apart the egdes should be laced.

Here are a few options (bows and such) that you may have on your stays.

Pic 2

Here is a scarf and how it should be worn, tucked in for modesty.

To make your own, here are the dimensions and how to fold it.

Pic 3

Here are petticoats , a close up of how they are tied and a short blurb about how they should be worn one or more? Hem length etc. Should they be linen, wool, other materials? Can they have a pattern, stripes like slops or if you are wearing two , a combination of both?

Pic 4

Here is a mantua. Here is how it is fastened at the sides. It can be made of....

Pic 5

Here are stays worn with 1 - petticoats chemise apron and scarf

2 - petticoats chemise and mantua

Here are jumps next to stays - Here are how the two are worn.

Here is a picture of the accessories a lady would have and the pockets. Here is how to properly wear and carry those accessories.

add in then, hat..shoes..stockings and garters

A section on jewelry, scents and any allowable makeup would round it out to perfection.

More than 1 example of each in a photo not a fuzzy painting would really give someone planning a first time kit not only some ideas but the knowledge of options they may choose from.

In looking through all the after action pics etc..there are so many wonderful outfits and beautiful ladies...surely you all wouldn't mind being a gallery of well put together examples in the flesh for those who would feel just a bit lost with all the varying opinions and murky black and white drawings. Which may be clear to the very well versed in kit..but not so much to someone starting out.

I apologise if this has been done elsewhere, though I havent seen it in this format and once it's up I would remove this post. Please don't use this as a forum for disagreeing..but think of the first time gerl wanting to feel confident among so many who might be quick to look them over.

Links to personal projects, long discussions and paterns would be fine - just keep this section as a living pictorial simply broken down which would be met with gratefulness I believe.

And hey who doesn't like to show off their goods?

[Red Cat Jenny]

I know you've all been busy having way too much fun at recent events..hoping with all the talent here, someone or someones will be up to the task?

[callenish gunner]

• A listing of period reference books and their Call numbers
• Arnold, Janet: Patterns of Fashion 2: Englishwomen's Dresses and Their Construction C.1860–1940, Wace 1966, Macmillan 1972. Revised metric edition, Drama Books 1977. ISBN 0-89676-027-8

• Ashelford, Jane: The Art of Dress: Clothing and Society 1500–1914, Abrams, 1996. ISBN 0-8109-6317-5

• Baumgarten, Linda: What Clothes Reveal: The Language of Clothing in Colonial and Federal America, Yale University Press,2002. ISBN 0-300-09580-5

• Black, J. Anderson and Madge Garland: A History of Fashion, Morrow, 1975. ISBN 0-688-02893-4

• de Marly, Diana: Working Dress: A History of Occupational Clothing, Batsford (UK), 1986; Holmes & Meier (US), 1987. ISBN 0-8419-1111-8

• Payne, Blanche: History of Costume from the Ancient Egyptians to the Twentieth Century, Harper & Row, 1965. No ISBN for this edition; ASIN B0006BMNFS

• Ribeiro, Aileen: The Art of Dress: Fashion in England and France 1750–1820, Yale University Press, 1995, ISBN 0-300-06287-7

• Ribeiro, Aileen: Dress in Eighteenth Century Europe 1715–1789, Yale University Press, 2002, ISBN 0-300-09151-6

• Rothstein, Natalie (editor): A Lady of Fashion: Barbara Johnson's Album of Styles and Fabrics, Norton, 1987, ISBN 0-500-01419-1

• Steele, Valerie: The Corset: A Cultural History. Yale University Press, 2001, ISBN 0-300-09953-3

• Styles, John: The Dress of the People: Everyday Fashion in Eighteenth-Century England, New Haven, Yale University Press, 2007, ISBN 9780300121193

• Tozer, Jane and Sarah Levitt, Fabric of Society: A Century of People and their Clothes 1770–1870, Laura Ashley Press, ISBN 0-9508913-0-4

[LadyBarbossa]

Hmmm... now that ye've posted those, Callenish... I'm curious if a couple of those mention anything about the famous Von Robais family, who were fabric "barons" for the aristocracy of France. I'm curious to see what fabric they have made from said makers.

~Lady B

[Keelhauled Conny]

Hello all...I'm new to the Pub and working diligently on my GAOP impression. I've got the opportunity to get a beautiful crewel work petticoat at a great price, but I wasn't sure if it was a little too late for the time period...does anyone know if this type of embroidery was done on skirts prior to 1720?

Thanks,

Conny

Edited December 9, 2009 by Keelhauled Conny

[Silkie McDonough]

I have crewel pockets and have seen a waistcoat with crewel it also. Don't know about the petticoat.

[Keelhauled Conny]

I have crewel pockets and have seen a waistcoat with crewel it also. Don't know about the petticoat.

Yup Silkie, I've seen pockets too (so nice!), and I think curtains...damn...the one photo I've seen of a crewel skirt was from the late 18th century...It's just so pretty...I'm trying to will it into being historically correct...where's my Delorean?

[LadyBarbossa]

Hey, Connie. Apologies this be a bit of a delayed posting...

That's a good question. Vintage Textiles website has a surviving embroidered petticoat but it's from the late 18th c, not the early. However, some etchings do indicate the possibility of embroidered petticoats.

Maybe Cheeky can add some insight here sometime.

~Lady B

[Keelhauled Conny]

Hey, Connie. Apologies this be a bit of a delayed posting...

That's a good question. Vintage Textiles website has a surviving embroidered petticoat but it's from the late 18th c, not the early. However, some etchings do indicate the possibility of embroidered petticoats.

Maybe Cheeky can add some insight here sometime.

~Lady B

Thanks Lady B! I decided to let the petticoat go...sniff sniff...for the money I can get a bunch of linen petticoats, which I'm positive are PC! It was gorgeous though...it looked just like the one on the Vintage Textiles site. Maybe I'll get a small piece of crewel fabric and attempt a stomacher...hmmmm...that would work for GAOP, yes?

Conny

[Capt. Sterling]

embroidered stomachers, pockets, aprons, furniture, muffs, gloves (i.e. bed hangings, chair backs and seats, lady's caskets/boxes for sewing/jewelry type items)all work for GAoP. I believe some where on the pub is a thread on embroidery. Will check on embroidered petticotes when I get home.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[Capt. Sterling]

Most likely far more elaborate than ye wanted, but...so 1695-1720

Edited January 7, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[Capt. Sterling]

Right then found some documentation and an original petticoat boarder which is worked in crewel embroidery...circa 1725, far less elaborate than the above... will scan and post later...

[PrincipessaMarley]

Stays should not be mandatory in my opinion! I wouldn't be able to go around being restricted like that, haha

[lady constance]

oh my goodness those skirts and bodices and mantuas are GORGEOUS!!!

that is the kind of stuff i would love to wear and sew--- but alas..... yah right ---and then do what at a re enactment event dressed like that????

do they have balls that regular people are invite to to wear such things???? { love making things like this ,but can i justify makingthem knowing how rarely if ever i shall wear them?}

and another question--- how are the mantuas attached to the stomachers? hooks and eyes? { i dont see any strings/ties/areas of attachment} { iknow how i can make it look like this, but would i pass GaOp?PC standards?}

sigh!!! so many dreams!!!

and my current dilemma--what on earth color should i make them? i made a tapestry set of stays ,and it is gorgeous--- but it isnot like any one elses....it aint poor and it aint middle class.....

oh well......stop whiningandstart sewing!!! LOL!!

[Kate Souris]

I use pins, Connie. Pin the stomacher to the stays, then pin the mantua also.

[lady constance]

pins???????????

and give myself a case of crepitus? drop a lung? puncture my liver? spleen and stomach?

tell me are the pins just straight like T pins tailors use?

[Keelhauled Conny]

Wow. Those are incredible examples, Capt. Sterling. The blue one in the center...fantastic!

;^) Conny

[LadyBarbossa]

Ooo... the last one I've not yet seen, Sterling. Tis interesting.

The first two - if ever I have the time and money for it - I plan on making (heaven forbid).... sometime. Th' blue with gold embroidery is beyond stunning, of course.

Constance... if pinned right, really... no one gets hurt. I abhored the idea of pins, too. Frightened to the point I refused to use them on ANY of my garments... but the more I fiddled with the idea and experimented and talked to various others... it's not really that painful. Because the sharp tips are covered and pinned to stays.

Worse comes to worse... use safety pins. The Amish around here do (amazing what ye find and learn at the local Farmer's Market). As long as they are rather hidden, which can be easy with a bit of practice.

~Lady B

[blunderingbuccaneer]

Hello,

I just discovered this wonderfully pyratical forum and thought it queer to toot my own horn. Actually I just wrote a couple articles a bit back on female pirate wear for my friends and wanted to spam it hear.

It's just a lovely glossary guide with photos and descriptions. You can follow the links to the full articles. I am not female and have only been period reenacting for so many years so please feel free to stick and bleed me for my inaccuracies.

How to be pirate: The women’s guide. Part 2

This next part is how to look the Belle of the ball while still owning your rowdy empowered piratitude without selling yourself out for some stock online costume made of pleather, plastic, or pleats. To many of you seasoned and stylized swashbucklateers with gorgeous garb already this piece might be as a stone skipping across the water, but stay attentive for we will delve below the surface in articles to come.

A female pirate of the era often dressed as sailors or captains, but in today’s pirate scene the sensualization of the sailing garb is quite acceptable.

So to play the part in this parlay we must first dress the part. To begin we will learn the lingo and start at the bottom where a pirate keeps her booty. It wasn’t until the sexual revolution of the 1970s that women have been able to use their undies or small clothing to flaunt there sexual prowess, however in 16^th century women started wearing Petticoats under their skirts to accentuate their female form.

The petticoats or underskirts – are a wide skirt worn underneath clothing to visually widen the hips and accentuate the hourglass figure.

Bloomers – Women’s baggy underpants fastened to just below or above the knee.

Pettipants – another term for longer bloomer often made of cotton or lace with ruffles running down the side of the legs. Pettipants or long bloomers with a skirt hitched up, side or jagged cut, without showing excessive skin can really strike the difference between saucy tart and Victorian puritan.

Corsets –Containing stiff “boning” the corset is worn to shape the torso into the hourglass figure. Historically, women larger healthier women were considered more attractive because of their child rearing potential. As society progressed and food sources became more readily available a thinner torso with wide birthing hips became the sexual standard.

The corset, or quilted waistcoat, also known in many circles as a traditional torture device often aided the Victorian ideal of women fainting. Practically speaking a good corset need not be belted to full wait reducing lung diminishing capacity and should not be worn for extensive periods of time.

Bodice (Boddess of the goddess) – Alternative to the corset, but worn exterior to the clothing in is the bodice. Laced in front or behind the bodice lifts the bust and shapes the figure. Often Bodices have less boning then corsets allowing for longer more comfortable wear. Among Renaissance faire-goers, the bodice dress or Irish dress is quite popular over an all-purpose chemise, for the dainty more alluring but less provocative of styles.

Chemise – The chemise is a body length sleeved shift worn under a corset or bodice.

How to be pirate: The women’s guide. Part 1

[Bos'n Cross]

.......you forgot the mantua.......lol........you open a can of worms if you allow stickings and bleedings at inaccuracies!

[LadyBarbossa]

Aye, Cross. As attractive as those are, they are generally impractical. Especially those blasted, freakin' bloomers! Ugh! Hated those! They are fun to wear for a costume party but not the type of thing last nor good for a long term pirate event especially when camping is involved, etc. A fantasy pirate look many like and would rather go for because they want to look the way they want to look and price. But there are some who will wear a more longer lasting, historically appropriate pirate look out of comfort and is far more enjoyable. Face it, some of us pirate ladies like the right look for reasons of being able to get on and off the ship without troubles, walk about without passing out, able to go to the bathroom without troubles of how one would bend over, etc. There are ways women can dress in men's attire and yet accentuate their figure. I suppose if a pirate woman wants to... she could wear a mantua over a gentleman's ruffled shirt, with petticoat breeches/slops underneath silken stockings and find shoes with hair like they were wearing a hunting habit or ribbons through them as though a loose "rag" look (which is a means to curl the hair overnight, long story). There are unique ways to take a more historically correct look and altering it to a unique woman's taste. Darn the fact that my scanner is broken, otherwise, I'd conjure up a few drawings.

~Lady B

[Bos'n Cross]

funny enough there are a few drawing from criers of london of a few women wearing mens coats over their stays....lower class though, but then again there are the best and most interesting sorts of people...like sailors.

[Keelhauled Conny]

Sorry to move away from the current topic, but I had a quick question regarding petticoats...I've seen examples showing them UNDER stays, and examples showing them OVER stays. What's the proper placement when one doesn't own a mantua (yet!)???

Here's my current clothing "sandwich":

shift

under petticoat

pockets

over petticoat

apron

stays

fichu

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Conny

[Silkie McDonough]

I have embroidered pockets, I wear them on the outside.

I also don't wear 2 petticoats, I am too warm most of the time anyway and no one else would be counting them. I will wear them 2nd petticoat at a judged event but it may not be the same color.

The stays can be worn inside or out. If they are too short and stick out you may be better wearing them on the inside. I like the color of my stays to show more so I wear them on the outside. If someone had an embroidered stomacher they may want to wear them on the outside so that all the embroidery shows, I don't know if that means that the stays would also have to be on the outside.

I don't wear a fichu. As I said I am usually too warm as it is, the less fabric the better. I do wear a mantua so maybe that is why I don't wear a fichu. lol

[Keelhauled Conny]

Thanks Silkie!