Wot happened to Global Warming

[Patrick Hand]

OK.... I know there was a thread about this..... so I surched for it..... and it's not within the last 90 days.... so cool.... start another one.... (kinda like the where can I get a good pair of bucket boot threads.....)

Anyway... my Boss (Carol) wanted me to see An Inconvient Truth ...

Dang... longest Political add I've ever watched..... Vote for Al Gore, and he'll solve all our problems....

Just too many stinking holes in what he was saying.... just when it started to get interesting.... fast cut... to his poor life....(not that mine is any better.... but I ain't making a play ter run for any political office....)

So... I still beleave that "global warming" is nothing more than a cheap shot at getting political attention..... kinda like th' old "we gotta save the children".....

Sounds great.... but wot are you selling?

[Misson]

Well, ol' Albert has a company that sells carbon offset credits.

I just hope we're not gullible enough to sell more of our freedom for a hypothesis.

Actually, Patrick, all the GW discussions are hidden in other thread titles. One is the Live Earth thread and the other is the Ice Caps Melting thread. Both started out on one topic and then got into long discussions about GW. (Guilty as charged.)

[blackbonie]

global warming is like god, some believe in it, some dont. some see clear evidence of it, some see nothing.and you cant change anyones beliefs about either one by preaching or arguing.

like many,i believe in one but not the other

[Misson]

Actually, I believe it exists. (Anyone who doesn't is playing ostridge, IMO. It's like saying we have no impact on our environment and there is clear evidence that that isn't true.) I just don't believe the effect is strong enough to have the tragicomic results the GW pundits do. ("20 foot increases in sea level! Rapidly melting glaciers destroying polar bear habitats! Dramatically increased hurricanes!" Sounds like The Sun in overdrive. "Batboy joins Al Gore in leading the charge against carbon emissions!" )

There's lots of evidence that there are gaping holes in the hypothesis. For example, I guess they finally dropped the temperature "hockey stick" model from the IPCC's report this year because it left out some crucial cooling and warming periods. (Al should go update his movie. Maybe he is - I hear a sequel is in the works.)

[Patrick Hand]

I was talking to a friend the other day about Global Warming, and he reminded me about how we were all frightened (back in the 70's) about the huge Ice Age that was coming ...

Now I want to see if I can find some articles from the 70's and the histeria.... about the coming Ice Age......

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Hmmm . . . generally I avoid embroiling myself in anything even remotly political (and really I think that is the main drive to this whole global warming thing)

But anyway . . . I'll pitch into this cause I am fairly middle of the road, so no one can hate me, too badly.

Here's my take. We need to take care of the environment. We have had a very negative effect on the atmosphere. We need to be responisble. But this whole "We are destroying the earth! The world will be lifeless and destroyed in 20 years. Our children won't have parks to play in! Oh no! The ice caps are melting." Bunch of over dramatic, whingy political manuvering. Scare the masses a bit so they back up an agenda.

My reasons for this thinking. The pollution in major cities, specifically London. 100 years ago, London's air was highly polluted - some of the worst in the world. Even up until recently, it wasn't great. But with the world becoming more eco friendly, they have started to be concerned with what they release into the air. And now, it's the cleanest it's ever been. Even the air in LA (otherwise known as Smog City, USA) has improved significantly, especially in the las ten years. I mean, I'm no scientist (failed several years of HS biology/earth science) but this is just gathered from diffrent scattered articals I've read over the years.

And really . . . if the ice caps were significantly melting (note, I say significantly, yes, they have shrunk, but hang with me here) we'd be hitting a new mini ice age - not suffering through heat waves. Glacial water hitting the jet stream currents? They are what dictate alot of our tempertues and weather.

Anyway. I'm no scientist. I'm no politician. I'm barely even a consevationist. Just know what I see. And despite what they are saying - I have still seen nature thriving and moving on.

[Lady Alyx]

Heat waves is just the beginning..Wiki Ice Age.the whole thing doesnt just happen over night, but the significance of weather changing to be erratic is just the beginning of the whole change.

I don't see Al's movie as a Political Ad at all, and I guess as a previous poster said you are either on one side of the fence or the other, when you believe what is slowly going on. But I watch countless shows on PBS and even if the topic is the Rain Forests and Jungles the scientists even on those shows speak about the global warming and what's going on with the rain forests. Our planet is fragile, it's doing enough with it's own changes for us to help it all detrimently.

I don't remember an Ice Age coming in the 70's at all Patrick. I just remember the Gas Crisis and waiting in long lines, and alternate days corresponding to your license plate number. What happened to that...there is no gas shortage, all a play for $$$$$$$.

If you want a good resource for stuff, please go to the NOAA webby

NOAA

[Lady Alyx]

Oh Patrick,

I found this...

Cooling Article 1975 Newsweek

[Patrick Hand]

That page had a link to another page....

http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialrep.../fireandice.asp

Fire and Ice

Journalists have warned of climate change for 100 years, but can’t decide weather we face an ice age or warming

By R. Warren Anderson

Research Analyst

(It's interesting... but I think it's biased the other way.... )

[Misson]

Our planet is fragile, it's doing enough with it's own changes for us to help it all detrimently.

Au contraire! Our planet is quite durable. It is we who are fragile. The planet will outlast us just as it has outlasted hundreds of species before us. Oh, where's my Michael Crichton quote...

"Our planet is four and half billion years old. There has been life on this planet for nearly that long. Three point eight billion years. The first bacteria. And, later, the first multicellular animals, then the first complex creatures, in the sea, on the land. Then the great sweeping ages of animals -- the amphibians, the dinosaurs, the mammals, each lasting millions upon millions of years. Great dynasties of creatures arising, flourishing, dying away. All this happening against a background of continuous and violent upheaval, mountain ranges thrust up and eroded away, cometary impacts, volcanic eruptions, oceans rising and falling, whole continents moving. Endless constant and violent change.... The planet has survived everything, in its time. It will certainly survive us...."

"Let's say we had a bad [radiation accident] ... and the earth was clicking hot for a hundred thousand years, life would survive somewhere -- under the soil, or perhaps frozen in Arctic ice. And after all those years, when the planet was no longer inhospitable, life would again spread over the planet. The evolutionary process would begin again. It might take a few billion years for life to regain its present variety. And of course it would be different from what it is now. But the earth would survive our folly. Life would survive our folly."

[Jurassic Park]

[Patrick Hand]

Me skeptical..... NAH.... I just did a search on "CO2 Debt".....

This is a fun page....

http://www.co2debt.com/

Cool ...just like Indulgences, you can pay someone to fix the problem......

Welcome to CO2debt.com, where you can buy carbon offset services and do something practical to reduce global warming.

And line thier pockets......

"Global Warming... OH NO..... give us lots of money, And we'll make everything all better....."

Why would I be so skeptical ?

I was at a convention once, and some of the Businessmen were discussing thier advertising stratigy.....

Business can't go to schools and pass out advertising..... But if they tie it in with "Don't use Drugs" or anything else thats in the news at the time.... They can pass out as much as they want.... because it shows that thier Business (with the address, and an attached coupon) care......

So Drug usage, Global Warming (or Cooling) anything that frightens the public is not bad....... it's Great if your selling something......

[Misson]

(It's interesting... but I think it's biased the other way....  )

There's the rub. I haven't read the Fire and Ice article yet, although I've heard of it. I've read a lot of others (like the one cited in the Live Earth thread) and I find you have to sift through them to find the supportable info and separate it from the finger pointing and name calling.

That's why I try to find statements with research behind them. And also why I cite sources on this issue in particular whenever I have them handy. Anyone can say there's going to be a 20' rise in sea level. The question is, where is the research that backs that up? (And what is it based on? But there's no answer because no one can back that one up.)

As for the co2debt site...that's the kind of company Gore has an ownership stake in. (Imagine!)

[Lady Alyx]

Ha ha ha Patrick...just like we pay for water now, cause it's so polluted, we will be paying for air one day...I can just see those lovely airpacks on our backs now....HA HA HA!

[Patrick Hand]

Hey... I'm all for Global warming.... If I can figure out a way to scare more sheep into givin' me thier money.....

Air packs..... sounds like a great idea..... Hey... don't the Japanees already sell those ? .......

And don't forget the alluminum foil pirimyds..... gotta keep the Aliens outta your brains.......(and sharpen razors at the same time.....)

At least Pyrates were straight up about it.... "give us your loot or we will kill you...."

Not sneeky and underhanded about it...."Send us money to save the Earth or we are all going to die......"

Come to think about it.... I could use a few more trees out front..... send me a couple Hundred dollers, and I'll fix your co2 debt.......

Global Warming is only a problem if I can't also make some money offa it........

just like we pay for water now,

I live up in the mountains..... and we have a colorfull saying up here.....

"Flush twice.... it's a long way to L.A. ......"

(OK... so most of the snow pack gets sold to the Bay Area....... and the politics of water is sooooo much fun...... but that's not why you buy bottled water......)

[blackbonie]

 

(OK... so most of the snow pack gets sold to the Bay Area....... and the politics of water is sooooo much fun...... but that's not why you buy bottled water......)

ive always beena gainst bottled water, but after seeing the crusty residue left by my tap water,and then regretably tasting it anyway,i buy it by the gallon and reuse the smaller bottles.off topic i know.someone mentioned bottled water

[Patrick Hand]

I re-read my post, and it sounds like I'm attacking Lady Alyx..... I didn't mean it to sound that way..... I'm not picking on her......

I do question all the Hype, and proffitiering that Global Warming in spawning tho...........

[Patrick Hand]

Scarry thing is that Global Warming gets all the press, but you never hear anything about the danger of Dihydrogen Monoxide.....

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

[Zephaniah W Nash]

I'm ashamed of you, Patrick, falling for the Dihydrogen Monoxide hype -- ya know it's all political.

Or maybe you're one o' those despicable anti-Dihydrogen Monoxide activists...?

[Patrick Hand]

the Dihydrogen Monoxide hype

Oh... you can laugh about it now.... but that Dihydrogen Monoxide is some dangerous stuff..........

[Zephaniah W Nash]

Oh, c'mon, you know as well as I do that Dihydrogen Monoxide is only dangerous in large quantities. Moderation is the key...

[Patrick Hand]

Hey... anything that dangerous, used in Chemical processing AND that stuff is put into Baby Food! But the Government won’t do anything about it……..

[Graydog]

The problem with dihydrogen Monoxide is owing to the hydrogen component there is a possibility of explosion. This get’s exacerbated that if you have a dihydrogen Monoxide fire you can’t use water to put it out. It just crazy, you put water on a fire like that and it only intensifies.

That thar danger be why we always cut dihydrogen Monoxide with Ethanol at a rate of two parts of the former to one part of the later. This will render the concoction safe for shipboard use.

[Lady Alyx]

Hi Patrick,

I don't think it sounded like you were attacking me at all. I thought it was funny, cause I was being playfull about it anyway.

"Flush twice.... it's a long way to L.A. ......"

funny with those new 5 gal toitey's I have to flush twice anyway...and I am close to LA. HA HA HA

[Zephaniah W Nash]

Dihydrogen Monoxide (dHmO hereafter, for short) is actually one of the more regulated chemicals around -- I hardly go a day or two without hearing about somebody suing somebody else over the stuff.

There was a big spill in our area last month that caused a few evacuations, but mostly this stuff is still over-hyped. Sure, it can kill you in seconds if you breathe in too much of it, but that's what those warning labels are for, ain't they...?

[Graydog]

Look dhmo is closely related to dihydrogen Dioxide (dhdo). That stuff is used to make nuclear weapons! This stuff is dangerous. Heck, if its closely related element is used to make nukes, I'd recommend steering a wide berth of this stuff.

I have no desire to glow in the dark nor burst into flames.

Remember, you can only render this deadly substance safe by getting it out of a pure status; mixing with C2H6O is a viable option.